The Beauty of Reality

[FlyFree]

Religious and 'spiritual' mongers have an obvious motivation and self-interest in painting the physical world and the people in it as in need of something better, higher than themselves.

How would a 'prophet' or 'philosopher' get anyone to admire and follow him, giving him the power and admiration he craves, by telling them 'You're OK. The world is beautiful.' Or somesuch.

The ultimate self-fulfilling prophecy. After ages of Gods, is it any wonder we believe all, except us of course, is bad?

No idea where I'm going with this thread. It's a shameless exercise of putting thoughts on 'paper' to see if anything crawls out of the woodwork.

It was prompted by an exchange re Bhudism, Confucianism and spirituality. Oriental spirituality, nogal.



Since I was about 7 my special interest has been the human thought process. The brain itself holds little interest for me, it's physical and we'll know all about it in due course.

As a youth I spent most of my weekend eves in the city's roughest district, the docks area, missing the last train home and having to jump freight trains for a lift halfway back, then walk the rest of the way.

I suppose this was prompted by two things. I was a skinny youth, so you can imagine I was often taunted. I was probably trying to toughen myself up. But the main reason was the people I encountered. A really colourful array of sailors, whores, pimps and bums. And cops.

Never had sex. Never looked for sex. Just talked, observed. Amazing characters I met.


My area of interest is the thought process. But in all my life I've never looked at anyone as a 'case study'. A natural position for me, to just be. Looking back, this in my opinion was my greatest advantage in understanding people. And the reason I find formal psychology less than useful.

No way can you understand someone if you look at them as a subject to classify. No way can you understand someone if you don't linger.

I never studied psychology. I formed my own ideas, and only later on did I read people like Freud and Jung, to test my ideas against them, modify mine or reject what they said.

I am a strong believer, in retrospect, of this approach. That way nobody influenced my thought or observations, as is the inevitable result of reading & studying first.

I don't think of myself as a psychologist, or any derivative, by any means.

I simply gained some insight into a subject that fascinated me.

Once i finished school I found a job, educated myself further, formally. Till my early 40's i farted around in the corporate world, all the while the little bits and pieces grew into a bigger and bigger picture.



One lesson I learnt along the way is that sometimes we all need a kick up the arse. Patting on the head and scratching behind the ears does nobody any favours in the long run.


From a lifetime of closely interacting with a vast array of people, across a very wide spectrum (always subconsciously, never consciously, building this picture of their thought processes), I have one basic, unshakable belief. I try to ditch it. I try to argue it's bullshit. But it sticks in my mind like baby shit to a woolen blanket.

Outside of the mentally (physically) disadvantaged , there are no morons. There are only those that choose, consciously or subconsciously, to be morons.

And this is where religion, spirituality and a whole array of complete bullshit spreads it's carnage.

And this is why I sometimes, once in a while, call people morons. Not really to insult. No point in that, really. But fvck me, you have a brain, use it.

[Necron99]

On the whole, it is hard to blame the overtly religious. Most of them have been indoctrinated from their earliest days. Conditioning is hard to break.
I do however, regardless of how bright they may seem, regard them as somewhat damaged goods and generally keep my distance.
The ones I regard as complete morons are the born again type who adopt it after a secular upbringing.
The above refers to the adoption of religious dogma rather than philisophical persuits.

[Rural Surin]

And than again, realities and truths could reveal themselves in a mindboggling variety and diversity.....unless one seeks to corner an absolute.

[billy the kid]

My area of interest is the thought process

trying to understand
what is the Root of Thought
maybe Desire or Will
i am this and i wanna be that
the what you have and the what you want
security in this life and the after-life.
some are now saying that Thought is a material process.
ie a church or temple and everything that is inside is the outcome of thought.
and is worshipped
big mistake.
that this life is impermanant and the after-life is permanant
so we put most or all of our energies to secure that end.

not sure where i'm going with this ,, so i'll pause now.

[billy the kid]

The Beauty o0f Reality.
I look at Reality as everything that man has touched or created.

And that Nature is outside of all that. Untouched by Man.

I prefer to separate them.

[Rural Surin]

The Beauty o0f Reality.
I look at Reality as everything that man has touched or created.

And that Nature is outside of all that. Untouched by Man.

I prefer to separate them.

This is a thoughtful [even connected] comment.

Kudos.

[ENT]

Man arose from nature, nature is part of man, there is nothing outside of nature, only derived from it.

[Rural Surin]

Man arose from nature, nature is part of man, there is nothing outside of nature, only derived from it.

But then, what if everything you know [and taught/conditioned] is wrong?


Everything that we know, which is probably only 4% of all knowledge, might be a passing ruse....

What is nature?

[zeusbheld]

What is nature?

all the phenomena that exist in the physical universe.

[Rural Surin]

Alan Watts and Joseph Campbell.
For an alternative matter of vision with an easier to understand "Western" spin.

[ENT]

^^^ All that we know is diddly squat of fuck all.
The passing ruse is that empirical knowledge is the only form of knowledge possible.
Knowledge is a process and it is infinite.

[Mr Earl]

The Beauty o0f Reality.
I look at Reality as everything that man has touched or created.

And that Nature is outside of all that. Untouched by Man.

I prefer to separate them.

But can you really?
Our experience of nature is through our sences and thoughts. So indeed man is an integral part.
Nothing is real without our perceptions. Reality is what we perceive it to be.
Many factors (language, culture, environment, health) can direct, shape, cloud, distort, or enhance one's perceptual awareness.

I found the practices of the ayahuasca shamans in Peru of particular interest in this quest of awareness of reality. Especially regarding seperating the human ego from the perceptual experience which is what I think you mean by separating man from nature. But I think man is part of nature and the true nature of man reality itself.

"It is just that things are not as they are, but as what they are". Don Juan Tuesta

[billy the kid]

yes of course Man is a product of nature

but 'thought' ideas, ideals, in the psycho, organised religio

which dominate and divide our world as do nationalities

it will take just one crazy thought and a press of the button
and everything that man has put together will be blown away
including man.
and 'thought' will be the destroyer.

Violence is real,, non violence is an idea that doesn't work
Greed is real and non-greed is an idea which also doesn't seem to work. etc. etc.
this is our reality.

Maybe thought is the great evil.
with those who hold or desire Power.

[Looper]

and 'thought' will be the destroyer

Maybe thought is the great evil

I think you are tapping into something fundamental to Thai philosphy here. This is what the Thais are getting at when they say 'you ting too mut'.

[ENT]

Thais can't think too much, that's drummed into them from day one!

Thaksin thinks Thais act, like sheep.

[ENT]

Anyway, thought is a natural process, not to be fought against, simply used. Controlling one's thoughts is essential for the best results.

[Rural Surin]

Thais can't think too much, that's drummed into them from day one!

Thaksin thinks Thais act, like sheep.

Largely, you'll find all respective populations this way.
Written instinctive in our [as a life form] DNA and character.

Sure makes it easier for the social engineers to design.

[ENT]

As for greed and violence, only thoughtful self control can curb those urges.

The idea that non thinking is the best method to reach some sort of satisfactory resolution to things is a bit extreme, something like cutting off your nose to avoid a bad smell.

Desire or hankering for stuff, power and so on is more likely to create problems, as is irrational fear of things.

[ENT]

^^D"ya reckon that people instinctively don't think?
Foetuses think, babies think, we all think, it's in our nature to think.
We only stop thinking properly when "education" starts and we begin to lose our innate curiosity and instinctive search for knowledge.

[billy the kid]

Anyway, thought is a natural process, not to be fought against, simply used. Controlling one's thoughts is essential for the best results.

jeez ENT, we're poles apart. we cannot control thought but we can be aware of it.
as soon as we can put 2+2 together we are taught to control.
you are the thought, not separate from it.
and thought is always from the PAST
it comes from memory.

there is the controller and the thing to be controlled
the controller is the controlled
think about it .

a foetus that thinks,,,, £$%^&*()_!"£$%.
in what language ?

[ENT]

Anyway, thought is a natural process, not to be fought against, simply used. Controlling one's thoughts is essential for the best results.

jeez ENT, we're poles apart. we cannot control thought but we can be aware of it.
as soon as we can put 2+2 together we are taught to control.

you are the thought, not separate from it.

a foetus that thinks,,,, £$%^&*()_!"£$%.
in what language ?

"we cannot control thought but we can be aware of it.....we are taught to control."

You contradict yourself here in one sentence.
Then;
"you are the thought, not separate from it."

Therefore,
"a foetus that thinks,"

Is correct, as the neonate is born aware and thinking, and has demonstrated this ability to evaluate while a foetus.

[billy the kid]

i wish but no on that score alwarmer

where was i, oh yea

the controller being the past wanting to control something in the now.

so ENT, what did the buddha say about the past ?

thought also coming from the past,,, memory
is the controller and it wants to control something that is happening now.
so a 'division' has taken place, a duality in the system, right ?

ok i'll pause for now. i won't get my coat, . i'll be right back.

[billy the kid]

^^ sorry i missed that post.

i'm talking about getting away from the control business

and also you become the thought when authority starts pumping shit into your head
and authority comes from many directions.
what's good, what's bad, what's right and what's wrong
do this ,don't do that etc.etc.
you are brainwashed and conditioned by authority and by society.

[billy the kid]

question is
can you operate without the past polluting the now ?
the past being your thought based on knowledge

we're not talking about what goes on in the working environment or a plan to do something.
that's something else.
past experiences or ideas are essential in those areas.

and would you agree that you need language in order to think. jayus.

ever try telling a baby to shut the fok up .

[ENT]

the controller being the past wanting to control something in the now.

so ENT, what did the buddha say about the past ?

the past wanting to control
The past is gone, so can not want anything.

The Buddha said that the past results in present karma, as all things arise from past existence.