Vietnam, Agent Orange and Heart Disease

[Borey the Bald]

The following information may be of interest to those old farts among us who spent some of their formative years in Vietnam during the war.


From July 1969 to June 1971 I spent most of the time living in platoon and company patrol bases in the Cambodian border area. It was not unusual for us to be sprayed by low-flying aircraft that, I believed at the time, were performing (ineffectual) mosquito control. I never heard of agent orange while in Vietnam. Shortly after leaving Vietnam and resuming a structured military physical conditioning routine, I realized that my physical abilities had been greatly reduced. Regardless of how hard I pushed myself in my daily fitness routine, I could never regain my pre-war studliness. I would be fatigued even after a light workout. When I mentioned this to a doctor, his attitude was "what do you want me to do about it?"


So, 30 years later and still suffering from the same (not worse) symptoms, I again mention it to a doctor. This time, he performs a blood test and tells me I have heart disease. What changed over that 30 years was that they now were able to diagnose and treat my problem. The heart specialist didn't want to hear that my disease was not progressive, but had been with me unchanged over those decades. That apparently didn't fit in with what he had learned in medical school.


After another decade passed during which I have been regularly checked by the US Veterans Administration doctors for side effects from agent orange, I find out that the VA now considers heart disease to be one of those side effects.


Ischemic Heart Disease and Agent Orange - Public Health


This is good news for those veterans without health insurance who have the same problem. However, I think that associating heart disease to agent orange was a political decision, not medical. My guess is they only know that heart disease could be caused by some environmental factor in Vietnam. If agent orange were the cause, then it stands to reason that the Vietnamese, especially the country farmers, would have a much higher incidence of heart disease. The incidence of heart disease there is actually about one third that of the industrialized countries. And Vietnamese farmers have a much lower rate of heart disease than the country in general.


I had, over the years, attributed my heart problems to two years of consuming Army field rations, which were loaded with chemical preservatives in order to give them a shelf life of nearly forever. For the time being, I'm sticking with that analysis.

[ossierob]

Gidday Borey....I am lead to believe that fatigue has no association to heart disease. I too suffer from both fatigue and heart disease and my heart specialist in Brisbane has explained to me twice that fatigue has no known association with heart disease even though it sounds very probable to me. I then told him that my fatigue must be related to the 34 years I did on shiftwork in Australias coal mining industry. He responded 'nope' as you have been retired for 2 years you are over the effects of shiftwork, then he told me my fatigue is probably caused from sleep apnea (spelling?). I dont think this is correct. I was diagnosed with a level of chronic fatigue several years back but am not sure about that either as that term seems just like a generalisation to me.....something to tell a patient when you have no idea of the cause.
Hope you can link agent orange or whatever to your physical condition back when you noticed it had declined.

[Davis Knowlton]

I consider myself very fortunate to have spent 68-69 up in the mountains in I Corps where Agent Orange was rarely used at that time.

[Borey the Bald]

Gidday Borey....I am lead to believe that fatigue has no association to heart disease. I too suffer from both fatigue and heart disease and my heart specialist in Brisbane has explained to me twice that fatigue has no known association with heart disease even though it sounds very probable to me. I then told him that my fatigue must be related to the 34 years I did on shiftwork in Australias coal mining industry. He responded 'nope' as you have been retired for 2 years you are over the effects of shiftwork, then he told me my fatigue is probably caused from sleep apnea (spelling?). I dont think this is correct. I was diagnosed with a level of chronic fatigue several years back but am not sure about that either as that term seems just like a generalisation to me.....something to tell a patient when you have no idea of the cause.
Hope you can link agent orange or whatever to your physical condition back when you noticed it had declined.

Ossierob,

I am certainly not qualified to argue with a heart specialist. All I can do is give my experience. In my case the blockage was in three blood vessels supplying the oxygenated blood to the heart muscle itself. So the effect was as if my heart had a speed governor on it. As long as I did not exert myself too much, I felt quite normal. But after something like a long run, when I pushed my heart to its limit, I felt extremely fatigued for a couple of hours. Never had chest pain.

Now, after getting those blood vessels unblocked, I feel (physically) normal. I can do a quick 10 mile walk (the knees can't handle running) with no fatigue afterwards. Only sore feet.

[Norton]

68-69 up in the mountains in I Corps

Agent Orange was the least of our problems in I corp in 68/69.

"The Agent Orange Settlement Fund was created by the resolution of the Agent Orange Product Liability Litigation – a class action lawsuit brought by Vietnam veterans and their families regarding injuries allegedly incurred as a result of the exposure of Vietnam veterans to chemical herbicides used during the Vietnam war. The suit was brought against the major manufacturers of these herbicides. The class action case was settled out-of-court in 1984 for $180 million dollars, reportedly the largest settlement of its kind at that time."

The Agent Orange Settlement Fund (U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs)

[Davis Knowlton]

^Certainly wasn't high on my list.

[porkhunt]

My father in law had fatigue lack of energy for a couple of years.
On the day he was to go for a stress test he died,98% blocked artery,52 yrs old.
I also worked with returned serviceman from vietnam,whenever he perspired his skin would peel.

[Borey the Bald]

68-69 up in the mountains in I Corps

Agent Orange was the least of our problems.....

For some reason I find it easier to accept the direct consequences of war: the results of bullets and bombs.
I guess I need to look on Agent Orange as just another wartime WMD (or more accurately called Weapons of Indiscriminate Destruction). And like the use of poison gas during World War One, the wind would change and blow the poison back onto ones own troops, causing serious losses. Of course with Agent Orange, it is taking decades for those losses to be counted.

[Rural Surin]

Less we forget the tens of thousands of locals that later were affected.
Not to discount the everyday service personnel that had no choice, but to be there.

Agent Orange tends to get the greater publicity, but there were a number of nasty chemicals agents [defoliants] experimented with over those years.

[much of it stored in Thailand]

[Davis Knowlton]

Less we forget the tens of thousands of locals that later were affected.
Not to discount the everyday service personnel that had no choice, but to be there.

Agent Orange tends to get the greater publicity, but there were a number of nasty chemicals agents [defoliants] experimented with over those years.

[much of it stored in Thailand]

Without a doubt, a horrific legacy of the war. Generations, both Vietnamese and American/allies, impacted by something they never knew what it was. I have a good friend who flew a defoliation helicopter. Had no idea what he was dropping other than it killed foliage. Told me many stories of coming out of the chopper day after day, soaked in the shit that had blown back in. Has been waiting for years for it to come back on him. Or his kids.

[Notnow]

My father in law had fatigue lack of energy for a couple of years.
On the day he was to go for a stress test he died,98% blocked artery,52 yrs old.
I also worked with returned serviceman from vietnam,whenever he perspired his skin would peel.

I have probably been exposed to AO. I have had 3 major different cancers, and my skin peels from sweating too. If I could get a cure for the skin problem, I would be happily retired in Thailand, instead of Alaska. Hee hee, yes. I will talk to my VA medical team about it. They are very good, God bless em. They saved my life 4 times so far. I had the skin problem so long, I thought it was me being allergic to my sweat. After giving it some thought, I cannot remember it before my service 1964-1968.

[Davis Knowlton]

^Where were you located in RVN? Some areas were heavily defoliated, others not.

[Norton]

Less we forget the tens of thousands of locals that later were affected. Not to discount the everyday service personnel that had no choice, but to be there.

The class action suit I posted above "compensated" US military exposed to AO. The compensation was a slap in the face for those who had severe effects from exposure. One time payments ranging from $260 to $12,000.

I got a check for $268. Fortunately no symptoms. The absurdity of the settlement prompted me to place the check in a drawer and refuse to cash it. I was unmoved by several letters from the gov to cash the check so they could close out the books. Screw them!!

Finally after 40 plus years the US government has allocated funds to cooperate with VN in cleanup of residue AO. Better late than never I suppose but far to late for those Vietnamese already suffering from Dioxin exposure.

In a recent US supreme court ruling the producer of AO, Monsanto, can no longer be sued. Nice for Monsanto but not so nice for the poisoned peeps.

This whole AO thing is a cluster fuck of giant proportion.

Sorry, rant over.

[nostromo]

I wish you all the best. You will be fine, good people with you now. Look at the stars, if possible, think what is beyond them. Realign your loss, my loss, others loss, to perspective. Live.

The following information may be of interest to those old farts among us who spent some of their formative years in Vietnam during the war.


From July 1969 to June 1971 I spent most of the time living in platoon and company patrol bases in the Cambodian border area. It was not unusual for us to be sprayed by low-flying aircraft that, I believed at the time, were performing (ineffectual) mosquito control. I never heard of agent orange while in Vietnam. Shortly after leaving Vietnam and resuming a structured military physical conditioning routine, I realized that my physical abilities had been greatly reduced. Regardless of how hard I pushed myself in my daily fitness routine, I could never regain my pre-war studliness. I would be fatigued even after a light workout. When I mentioned this to a doctor, his attitude was "what do you want me to do about it?"


So, 30 years later and still suffering from the same (not worse) symptoms, I again mention it to a doctor. This time, he performs a blood test and tells me I have heart disease. What changed over that 30 years was that they now were able to diagnose and treat my problem. The heart specialist didn't want to hear that my disease was not progressive, but had been with me unchanged over those decades. That apparently didn't fit in with what he had learned in medical school.


After another decade passed during which I have been regularly checked by the US Veterans Administration doctors for side effects from agent orange, I find out that the VA now considers heart disease to be one of those side effects.


Ischemic Heart Disease and Agent Orange - Public Health


This is good news for those veterans without health insurance who have the same problem. However, I think that associating heart disease to agent orange was a political decision, not medical. My guess is they only know that heart disease could be caused by some environmental factor in Vietnam. If agent orange were the cause, then it stands to reason that the Vietnamese, especially the country farmers, would have a much higher incidence of heart disease. The incidence of heart disease there is actually about one third that of the industrialized countries. And Vietnamese farmers have a much lower rate of heart disease than the country in general.


I had, over the years, attributed my heart problems to two years of consuming Army field rations, which were loaded with chemical preservatives in order to give them a shelf life of nearly forever. For the time being, I'm sticking with that analysis.

[Mid]

I was unmoved by several letters from the gov to cash the check so they could close out the books. Screw them!!

Not a rant simply a life experience , thanxs for sharing and no apologies necessary .