Thread: Quality of alcohol and health

End stage liver disease ?

A Gf of mine once SLFA

Originally Posted by nigelandjan

End stage liver disease ?

Aye probably a better guess than mine.

^Dunno Pat, but, I really want to.

Originally Posted by DJ Pat

A Gf of mine once SLFA

Do you still get flashbacks ?

Sure I do. Was quite harrowing.

Originally Posted by DJ Pat

We're not all medical experts, so what is ESLD?

I thought I had included an in-line definition in an earlier post, but ESLD stands for End-stage Liver Disease. That means that your liver functionality has reached a point so that it can no longer sustain your life (i.e. End-stage) and, without major medical intervention, you will die within a few weeks or months.

On Aug 2007 (I might have repeated this elsewhere), my doctor gave me the following diagnosis "40% mortality within the next 90 days". This means I have 40% chance of dying from liver disease within 3 months.

They arrive at this number using an equation known as MELD, or Model for End-stage Liver Disease. You can google MELD and get the exact parameters used to calculate this number.

Regards,

RickThai

Robuzo;

Thanks for your information concerning Tylenol, I didn't know that. And yes, liver failure is a very tough and painful thing to experience. Hopefully, I can help others from preventing my mistakes.

barbaro;

Most of my life I was a beer drinker. Drinking one or two big bottles of Sua (Tiger) per day is the most I would recommend for anyone.

More than two is a lot of alcohol to take on a regular basis, and I fear you will pay the price some day.

Also, not feeling any damage, does not mean it isn't happening. That's the thing about the liver, it will slowly die over decades and still keep doing its job. You will never feel a thing, until the liver can no longer do its job. Then you will experience more kinds of pain and of an intensity you couldn't imagine. Without a liver transplant, you will likely die within a few months of the onset of the pain.

According to all the hepatologists that have treated me; Milk thistle or any other herbal remedies currently being marketed do not prevent liver disease from alcohol. That's their words not mine.

I wish everyone the best of luck.

RickThai

Thanks for the info, Rick Thai.

I have doubts about herbal preventative remedies, too. It isn't that substances such as milk thistle or, as is very popular in Japan at the moment, turmeric aren't good for the liver, but rather that nothing is going to help if you are going to give your liver a beating. It's like a pro boxer taking fish oil to assist brain function.

Originally Posted by robuzo

I have doubts about herbal preventative remedies, too. It isn't that substances such as milk thistle or, as is very popular in Japan at the moment, turmeric aren't good for the liver, but rather that nothing is going to help if you are going to give your liver a beating. It's like a pro boxer taking fish oil to assist brain function.

Agree, completely.

But these certain things can help and they are not expensive. I've cut way, way, back on the brewskies. Entirely for health reasons, not because it's affecting me or I feel sick, etc.

Some preventative measures (IMO) are the same as doing cardio for 30 minutes, or wearing a pollution mask in the city.

Just additional things that may help.

Originally Posted by robuzo

I have doubts about herbal preventative remedies, too. It isn't that substances such as milk thistle or, as is very popular in Japan at the moment, turmeric aren't good for the liver, but rather that nothing is going to help if you are going to give your liver a beating. It's like a pro boxer taking fish oil to assist brain function.

Well said!

Quite a story Rick. Is it true to say you were lucky to find a donor? What percentage of people needing a transplant actually get one before they die?

It is possible to get a liver lobe donation from a family member without ruining that family member's (or friend's) quality of life. In the donor a healthy liver grows back very quickly.

Another popular item that takes a toll on the liver is anabolic steroids. To be avoided IMO.

Originally Posted by Bazzy

Quite a story Rick. Is it true to say you were lucky to find a donor? What percentage of people needing a transplant actually get one before they die?

Hi Bazzy,

I believe I was extremely fortunate to have gotten a liver prior to dying. Livers in the USA are controlled by UNOS (Unified Network for Organ Sharing).
People needing livers are placed on a waiting list, after undergoing an evaluation period of around 6 months. The higher your MELD score, the higher you are placed on the waiting list. Things that can keep you off the list (or get you kicked off the list) include:
Drinking alcohol or taking any other illegal drugs,
Getting too sick to have a good chance of surviving the surgery,
Being too old,
Not being able to pay for the transplant,
Not getting blood tests (required almost weekly),
or any other reason (psychological, etc) that a doctor feels would not make you a good candidate.

Surprisingly, such things as having bad teeth might prevent you from getting a transplant (my doctor had to check my teeth for cavities prior to putting me on the list).

Unfortunately, many people do die while waiting for a transplant. I was placed very high on the list, because of my MELD score and other complications meant that I was likely to die within a very short time.

I was fortunate that my blood type (Type A Neg) is not that common, as the waiting lists are grouped according to blood type. Still, I was unbelievably lucky in that I was only on the waiting list for 5 days, before they had found me a liver.

So please believe me, when I say you need to stop drinking NOW, if you think your liver is in bad shape and might need a transplant in the next few years.

Taking some sort of internet, herbal remedy to try and rationalize your systematic abuse of your liver by excess drinking, is only going to lead to a painful death.

Best of luck to All,

RickThai

Well done to you Rick for keeping it up mate

^ agreed nigel - cheers Rick, a sobering story for sure . Certainly makes one think about the dangers of booze.

Thanks for the well wishes. My life is much better now than it ever was when I was drinking.

I enjoyed my alcohol, but now I enjoy not drinking just as much. I think it is more of acquiring "patterns of habit" than anything else.

I also save a lot of money by no longer drinking anything alcoholic. I sometimes drink a non-alcoholic beer or two when it is particularly hot and I am not in the mood for anything else, but even that's the exception.

There really is so much to appreciate in this fantastic world we live in (people, places, and things), it is a real shame to cut your time short just for the sake of an alcohol addiction.

Wishing Everyone the Best,

RickThai

Originally Posted by nigelandjan

Originally Posted by RickThai

There really is so much to appreciate in this fantastic world we live in (people, places, and things), it is a real shame to cut your time short just for the sake of an alcohol addiction.

Well said mate , its a shame many don't see it that way , but then were not all the same , I have seen my brother go to hell and back with alcohol its a shame cause he's such a good hearted lad , but he had his sense of purpose taken away from him due to ill health so it left a void in his life which got filled with alcohol , having said that he is now well into voluntary work and is doing something worthwhile again in his life

Good for your brother! I too have a brother who used to be a really good-hearted, well-liked, individual until a life-time of alcohol abuse destroyed his personality.

Now unable to keep a job, and with several alcohol-related felonies, he is one step away from being homeless.

Unfortunately, at age 62 he is still hopelessly addicted to alcohol. Nothing I have said to him about my own experiences has helped. He just blew it off and said "I have a stronger liver than you."

Thanks for your post.

RickThai

A very informative thread. I have cut down quite a bit on the beer now. As RickThai noted, a lot of it is a habit. Once the habit is changed, not drinking becomes the norm.

Originally Posted by barbaro

A very informative thread. I have cut down quite a bit on the beer now. As RickThai noted, a lot of it is a habit. Once the habit is changed, not drinking becomes the norm.

Good for you!