Thread: High Blood Pressure

Originally Posted by Humbert

This is very bad advice. Please see a physician or you could end up on a slab or worse.

Or worse ?

Mark

Originally Posted by Humbert

Originally Posted by Airportwo

I would guess that 99% of the cases of high blood pressure could be solved by lifestyle changes, Not medication, medication does nothing for the underlying causces, ALL drugs used to treat high blood pressure are Toxic!
We are becoming a society that relies more and more on drug companies!

This is very bad advice. Please see a physician or you could end up on a slab or worse.

my BP has been slowly raising for years and I got to a stage where I would need medication within a few years if I did not do anything about it. I did change my diet and started to exercise, my BP stabilised and is very very slowly going down. still have higher than normal BP but its not hypertension.

The problem is that once you start taking those pills you are taking them for life. But if you do not take them you could end up dead, half dead from a stroke or spending the rest of your life on dialysis. See a doctor maybe you have time to try life style changes but may be you don't

Originally Posted by Airportwo

I would guess that 99% of the cases of high blood pressure could be solved by lifestyle changes

I am sure that number is way too high. High blood pressure can occur without the usual causes like overweight and poor diet.

Originally Posted by Airportwo

medication does nothing for the underlying causces

True but high blood pressure is dangerous in itself. If the values are regularly higher than 90/150 medication is urgently needed even if you start to exercise and reduce weight.
High blood pressure affects the organs directly.

Originally Posted by Dick

Originally Posted by Airportwo

I would guess that 99% of the cases of high blood pressure could be solved by lifestyle changes, Not medication, medication does nothing for the underlying causces, ALL drugs used to treat high blood pressure are Toxic!
We are becoming a society that relies more and more on drug companies!

What do you suggest ?

I have tried the low salt diet and still have high BP

Not a drinker or smoker

I'm not trying to give advice, every bodies situation is different, but I find it strange that people accept taking prescription medicines for the longterm as normal, just a generalisation.
Have you tried eating differently, garlic, vit C, advocados, celery etc, drink lots of water etc, all good at normalising insulin levels which generaly in my understanding the causce of high blood pressure, certain foods like grains will boost insulin so if you suffer from high blood pressure will only make it worse.

Sometimes there's no apparent cause and then you have to take tablets if you want to survive to a reasonable age. This is called 'essential hypertension'.

Essential hypertension - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by Katana

Originally Posted by Humbert

This is very bad advice. Please see a physician or you could end up on a slab or worse.

Or worse ?

Mark

I consider a massive stroke leaving me without the use of half of my body and living in nursing home worse than death.

Originally Posted by Larn

He's a website with some good info. Alcohol and blood pressure

Recent research has confirmed that alcohol may put blood pressure up. The lower your blood pressure the better, but it is best below 130/80, lower still in some patients. A careful research study recommends less than 6 drinks or units a week, not really more than one a day. More than this leads to damage in the brain.

I was just reading how 2 - 3 glasses of wine or even a couple of beers a day is good for your heart.

Source: 50 Ways to a Healthy Heart by Christiaan Barnard

A lot of conflicting info around.

^ Yep, lots of conflicting info. It must be genetic, if folks actually do live healthy. I reckon the low-stress life is best. A lover, couple of dogs, a beach and a fridge full of good food and wine, and some great corny tunes at the beach.

^^ I enjoy a beer or more as much as anyone else. I can only go on personal experience and what numerous doctors have told me.

I guess the only way to find out is to check your BP, go have a couple of drinks then check again. I know my BP increases after a drink or 2.

[quote=Lorenzo;1537647]

Originally Posted by Larn

He's a website with some good info. Alcohol and blood pressure

I was just reading how 2 - 3 glasses of wine or even a couple of beers a day is good for your heart.

Source: 50 Ways to a Healthy Heart by Christiaan Barnard

A lot of conflicting info around.[/quote)

^ He died of a heart attack didnt he? relatively young as well!

Dick, Take the blood pressure medication. Things could be worse. How about a stroke where you loose function of half your body, or the inability to talk because of a stroke. There are many different b/p meds. Control is the key. Exercise where you stress your heart for atleast 30 minutes 3 times a week. The only way to lose is you need to burn more calories than you take in. If you eat 3,000 calories a day, you need to burn over 3,000 calories a day to lose weight. Start slowly and build up your exercise routine. Once you start to losing weight, your b/p will come down. Also exercise is a stress relief, which will lower your b/p.

^ Good advice.

....sadly you will now probably get 5 replies telling you exactly why you are "wrong", but, as said, good advice.

Originally Posted by nidhogg

^ Good advice. ....sadly you will now probably get 5 replies telling you exactly why you are "wrong", but, as said, good advice.

OK I will start.

Originally Posted by nidhogg

Once you start to losing weight, your b/p will come down. Also exercise is a stress relief, which will lower your b/p.

Yes good advice but don't expect too much. It may work well for some not so well for others.

I started exercising and losing weight almost 2 years ago. Lost app.16kg and am close to my set goal now. The average blood pressure came barely down at all, I still need my medication. But one thing has changed to the better. The spikes of high blood pressure I had occasionally despite medication have almost completely gone.

I went for a sleep test as was told suffering from severe sleep apnea and this is a noted cause for very high blood pressure

Originally Posted by lysander

Sometimes there's no apparent cause and then you have to take tablets if you want to survive to a reasonable age. This is called 'essential hypertension'.

Essential hypertension - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lysander is on the right track. All advice I have read so far with regard to diet, weight loss, smoking and stress factors can contibute to increasing blood pressure. It is always good to see if something physiological is causing the increase in blood pressure. Often times, once corrected, elevated blood pressure will decline. One example is checking to see if renal arteries are constricted. This is treatable and can be corrected in most cases to bring blood pressure back into the normal range. Once all known causes are ruled out, things move into the "Essential Hypertension" category which mean no cause can be found. If you are diagnosed with essential hypertension, the only choice is then medication that will lower blood pressure. There are many antihypertensives and everyone will react differently, so your physician will need to try various drugs before finding one that best controls your blood pressure. Personally, I would ask the physician for a once daily medication that has a generic available that is much lower in cost than the newer brand name drugs. Hydrochlorothiazide is pennies and also works as a diuretic if you are also retaining water. Low sodium diets are always recommended since salt will increase blood pressure along with other things already mentioned.
If you do have essential hypertension and do not take a medication to reduce your blood pressure, do not expect to live a full life. If you think you are going to die soon from some other disease state, or being hit by a train, it is a moot point. Not to take blood pressure medication is not a smart thing and not near as controversial as taking medications for other health issues. It is your call, but I would first see if something is causing your high blood pressure that can be corrected and if not, take a once a day medication every morning.

Originally Posted by Takeovers

The spikes of high blood pressure I had occasionally despite medication have almost completely gone.

everyone gets those, quite normal

it is having a consistently high blood pressure that leads to problems

anyone with high bp.read my posts on alternative diets.

See also my post (New Cholestrol Drug Amazes) on the New Cholesterol Drug thread. There is a very promising blood pressure treatment for patients that could not be successfully treated with medication.

Had mine checked this morning is normal not bad for an old bastard like me.

Originally Posted by DrAndy

Originally Posted by Takeovers

The spikes of high blood pressure I had occasionally despite medication have almost completely gone.

everyone gets those, quite normal

it is having a consistently high blood pressure that leads to problems

erm, maybe not: BBC News - Blood pressure fluctuations 'warning sign for stroke'

Originally Posted by malenurse

Dick, Take the blood pressure medication. Things could be worse. How about a stroke where you loose function of half your body, or the inability to talk because of a stroke. There are many different b/p meds. Control is the key. Exercise where you stress your heart for at least 30 minutes 3 times a week. The only way to lose is you need to burn more calories than you take in. If you eat 3,000 calories a day, you need to burn over 3,000 calories a day to lose weight. Start slowly and build up your exercise routine. Once you start to losing weight, your b/p will come down. Also exercise is a stress relief, which will lower your b/p.

Regarding exercise, try reading Why Exercise Won't Make You Thin - TIME and also The Health Benefits of Moderate Exercise | Mark's Daily Apple

For the calories, read Good Calories, Bad Calories by Gary Taubes. I thought it was generally accepted these days that the old calories in equals calories burned argument is far too simplistic. Consider a glass of coke, if you lower it's temperature by 5 degrees do you get the same nett calories from it? of course not, your body expends energy warming it up. You also have to look at how many calories get extracted by the body and how many get excreted. A really good summary is here: A Summary of Good Calories, Bad Calories by Gary Taubes

Originally Posted by BigRed

Consider a glass of coke, if you lower it's temperature by 5 degrees do you get the same nett calories from it? of course not, your body expends energy warming it up.

Nice theory, also true in reality but how much? 1 calory is per definition the energy needed to heat up water by 1°C. So assume your glass of coke has 0.2 liters. Then heating it up 5°C requires 1 calory.

That same glass of coke contains 84 kcal of energy, mainly as sugar. Note the k in kcal. That means the coke gives you 84.000 times the energy required to heat it up by 5°C.

^
A standard 330ml can of coke has 140 Cal (note the big C) so it is approx. a third of a litre. The average fridge is at 2 Centigrade so you could expect at least 15 Centigrade difference between one out of the fridge and one at room temperature, that gives 5 Cal difference or around 3.5%. Not a tremendous difference but it just shows that all things are not equal. There are many complex inter-reactions in the body and some are more efficient than others.

Note that there are two definitions of calorie, one is the scientific definition which is the energy to heat 1 gram of water by 1°C, the second is the nutritional definition which is to heat 1 kg of water by 1°C. The former is normally spelt with a small 'c' and the latter with a large 'C'. kilocalories are always based on the scientific definition. It is normally obvious from context which unit is being used, it is fairly obvious that a glass of coke doesn't contain the energy to heat itself up by 5°C 84,000 times

An example of all calories not being equal is the findings of research at Princeton:
A Princeton University research team has demonstrated that all sweeteners are not equal when it comes to weight gain: Rats with access to high-fructose corn syrup gained significantly more weight than those with access to table sugar, even when their overall caloric intake was the same.

Princeton University - A sweet problem: Princeton researchers find that high-fructose corn syrup prompts considerably more weight gain

Originally Posted by BigRed

it is fairly obvious that a glass of coke doesn't contain the energy to heat itself up by 5°C 84,000 times

You are right, this example shows why I should have picked up my calculation error by myself and not only after you pointed it out for me.

But it also shows that the temperature difference even with that error removed still only cancels barely over 1% of the calorie intake. That is still negligible.

Originally Posted by BigRed

An example of all calories not being equal is the findings of research at Princeton: A Princeton University research team has demonstrated that all sweeteners are not equal when it comes to weight gain: Rats with access to high-fructose corn syrup gained significantly more weight than those with access to table sugar, even when their overall caloric intake was the same.

Yes I agree. It is my own experience too, not with Corn Syrup but with the balance of carbohydrates and fat. Calories in fat are better for me than carbohydrates in general as I experienced over years. And yes I believe there seems to be something wrong with high intakes of fructose. I just link that to fructose and not specifically to corn syrup fructose. Corn syrup just happens to be the most common source of fructose in our food today.