Osama Bin Laden Is Dead !!!

**Boon Mee** · 04-05-2011, 06:43 AM

Originally Posted by Dan

it's a sorry fucking day.

Wot you mean, Dan? Because Obama was playing SOCOM4 while the grownups were exterminating bin laden with extreme prejudice?

**sabang** · 04-05-2011, 06:43 AM

If he had been taken alive, the uproar from both the 'true patriot' and islamoloonie brigade would have been deafening.

**Butterfly** · 04-05-2011, 06:44 AM

Originally Posted by baby maker

they will be having him for dinner....

probably, some strange "obscure" fraternity sects like S&B will have him for diner

Bush will have his head of course, he needs all the brain he can get

**Humbert** · 04-05-2011, 06:44 AM

The Teak Door Tin Hat Brigade is winding itself up into a spectacular spin now. Very enjoyable.

**S Landreth** · 04-05-2011, 06:44 AM

Someone brought up torture (and how it might have helped find OBL) in this thread. This post points to another direction,………(it didn’t help)

The debate is now manipulating the question at issue, suggesting that the fact Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Abu Faraj al-Libi provided tidbits (or, according to several reports, unconvincing denials) that led to OBL equates to us needing torture to get that intelligence. Particularly given that CIA used the denials of KSM and al-Libi as indications they were hiding something, it’s unclear why a denial without coercion would have served differently.

But there are two points that seem key in assessing the torture question. First, both KSM and al-Libi had critical intelligence they withheld under torture. KSM knew of Abu Ahmed’s trusted role and real name; al-Libi knew Abu Ahmed was OBL’s trusted courier and may have known of what became OBL’s compound.
And neither of them revealed that information to the CIA.

They waterboarded KSM 183 times in a month, and he either never got asked about couriers guarding OBL, or he avoided answering the question honestly. Had KSM revealed that detail, Bush might have gotten OBL 8 years ago.

And just as importantly, the whole time KSM was shielding Abu Ahmed’s true identity while being waterboarded, KSM was also lying to the CIA about where OBL was. When asked what things he lied about under torture at his 2007 CSRT hearing, KSM specifically said he first said he didn’t know of OBL’s whereabouts, and then confirmed false locations for him, in response to the torture.

President [of the Tribunal]: What I’m trying to get at is any statement that you made was it because of this treatment, to use your word, you claim torture. Do you make any statements because of that?

[snip]

KSM: I make up stories just location UBL. Where is he? I don’t know. Then he torture me. Then I said yes, he is in this area or this is al Qaida which I don’t him. I say no. They torture me.

So at the time when KSM was guarding crucial information about Abu Ahmed and with it OBL’s location, he was making shit up to get the torture to stop.

As I understand the torture apologists’ arguments, the whole point of it (aside from generating propaganda and making chicken hawks excited) is to get crucial intelligence quickly, to skip the laborious process of acquiring a mosaic of information and developing deep knowledge of an organization over years–that is, to skip the process that has now resulted in the death of OBL. But instead of skipping that step, we got denials and–in the case of KSM–disinformation. And only now, eight and six years later, we’re only now becoming aware of the intelligence these men had that would have led to OBL had our interrogation been more successful.

Link: http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2011/05/03/ksm-was-lying-about-obls-location-while-hiding-the-courier-who-could-locate-him/

**sabang** · 04-05-2011, 06:45 AM

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Originally Posted by Dan

it's a sorry fucking day.

Wot you mean, Dan? Because Obama was playing SOCOM4 while the grownups were exterminating bin laden with extreme prejudice?

Nah, because Obama achieved on his watch what Bush failed to do.

**Butterfly** · 04-05-2011, 06:46 AM

Originally Posted by sabang

If he had been taken alive, the uproar from both the 'true patriot' and islamoloonie brigade would have been deafening.

sab, shouldn't this be correctly labeled a conspiracy ? with "if" you can make all kind of scenarios,

**baby maker** · 04-05-2011, 06:46 AM

Originally Posted by rickschoppers

^^
Butters, you are definately one of a kind. There are just too many questions to be answered to even come close to exactly how this all went down. Osama bin Laden is dead and he was shot by Navy Seals that were ordered to carry out this operation by the President of the United States. The thought that there were plenty of opportunities to kill him before is pure bullshit and nobody can supply concrete proof otherwise. If there were other opportunities, the outcome would have been the same. To theorize anything else is dilusional thinking. I don't think anyone, uncluding British Special Ops would have shaken his hand and helped him onto the helicopter as they transported him off to England. They would have blown his brains out like the Navy Seals to make sure there was no chance of escape or rescue. Any military personnel would do the same if they had the chance and that is exactly what happened. To read more into the story, as many posters are doing, is a waste of effort.
To bury the body at sea is a great choice. Why would you risk his escape or worse yet, take him to trial in today's world? This way there is no way of knowing where he is and recovering the body, or starting a war for ownership of his pathetic carcass. The consipiracy freaks will not accept anything someone else states as truth and must always look for another angle to the story. I am not saying it all happened exactly as reported since the media likes to embelish and twist stories to gain listeners. However, as time goes by, I think it will be very evident that this scumbag is dead and was given a reasonalbe burial according to the muslim faith. Much more than what he gave to the thousands that were killed by his plans or actions. Quit trying to make this something it is not and sit back to see what is reported and then try to eliminate the fluff.

Thats a fair call......

**Butterfly** · 04-05-2011, 06:47 AM

Originally Posted by Humbert

The Teak Door Tin Hat Brigade is winding itself up into a spectacular spin now. Very enjoyable.

you are American Humbert, you are not trained to think independently outside your government propaganda, so shut up will you ?

**Butterfly** · 04-05-2011, 06:48 AM

Originally Posted by baby maker

Thats a fair call......

it is if you are a brain dead American patriot loon,

**rickschoppers** · 04-05-2011, 06:51 AM

Butters, got to give you and A for the entertainment factor. Almost fell out of my chair laughing, but you also are not rowing with both oars in the water.

**Humbert** · 04-05-2011, 06:54 AM

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Originally Posted by Humbert

The Teak Door Tin Hat Brigade is winding itself up into a spectacular spin now. Very enjoyable.

you are American Humbert, you are not trained to think independently outside your government propaganda, so shut up will you ?

Apologies Einstein but you are just hilarious.

**Butterfly** · 04-05-2011, 06:57 AM

Originally Posted by Humbert

Apologies Einstein but you are just hilarious.

not as much as you American patriot nutters

how does Kool Aid taste ?

**Boon Mee** · 04-05-2011, 06:58 AM

Originally Posted by Humbert

The Teak Door Tin Hat Brigade is winding itself up into a spectacular spin now. Very enjoyable.

This is true. Too bad I haven't got time today to wind up the 'usual suspects'. Although, from a quick glance, Butterfly has done wound himself up with no help from anyone!

**Humbert** · 04-05-2011, 07:05 AM

^Pernod must accelerate brain atrophy.

**Carrabow** · 04-05-2011, 07:13 AM

Originally Posted by rickschoppers

^^
To bury the body at sea is a great choice. Why would you risk his escape or worse yet, take him to trial in today's world? .

He did not give the others he wasted a proper burial. What lovely poetic justice. All of his followers can now sit in the dark and just wonder...wonder they will.

Oh Butters... Why would the USA want a big ole slap in the face?

If the guy was as close to "Big Guy" as he thought he was, maybe he will be resurrected in a few days and prove them wrong. It's not gonna happen, you need your beauty rest so dont lose any sleep over this.

**Cujo** · 04-05-2011, 07:21 AM

Would there be any benefit to displaying an unrecognizable corpse?
It's possible that the reason they dumped the corpse in the ocean is that it is unrecognizable.
If they put 2 in his head it's quite possible they literally blew his face off.
They don't use .22 rounds these guys.
And showing an unrecognizable, faceless corpse would be worse than dumping it in the ocean.
Just another possible explanation.
As someone already said, dumping the body in the ocean so quickly defies rational belief. There must be a reason.
We've heard a lot from the tin hat brigade except a plausibile alternative explanation.
After all, we agree on one thing and that is that something happened.
If not as reported then what? And why?

**The Ghost Of The Moog** · 04-05-2011, 07:29 AM

A 'conspiracy theorist' looking at the first day lead yesterday would have questioned the image of him leaping out of bed firing an AK 47 and hiding behing his wife.

Many papers used that imagery.

By day 2 it was admitted to be wrong.

The US haven't really clarified their story. Yet they had sufficient time to do it. Puttng the body out of reach in the most extreme way is now only going to satisfy the most credulous. So they are going to have to lay out all their (gruesome) evidence now, which they wouldn't have had to do if they'd used common sense initially.

**shadow role** · 04-05-2011, 07:48 AM

lived in luxury,millionaires mansion?
woman used as a human shield?
mechanical failure of helicopter...then blown up?
OBL..shot in a 'firefight?
DNA'd then buried at sea with muslim protocol?
need a new PR team!

**Carrabow** · 04-05-2011, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by Koojo

Would there be any benefit to displaying an unrecognizable corpse?
It's possible that the reason they dumped the corpse in the ocean is that it is unrecognizable.
If they put t in his head it's quite possible they literally blew his face off.
They don't use .22 rounds these guys.
And showing an unrecognizable, faceless corpse would be worse than dumping it in the ocean.
Just another possible explanation.
As someone already said, dumping the body in the ocean so quickly defies rational belief. There must be a reason.
We've heard a lot from the tin hat brigade except a plausibile alternative explanation.
After all, we agree on one thing and that is that something happened.
If not as reported then what? And why?

Doubt is a powerful psychological weapon. Why Not?

**FailSafe** · 04-05-2011, 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by Koojo

They don't use .22 rounds these guys.

Sure they do, depending on the circumstances- special forces teams aren't bound by the usual weapons choices.

That said, it was probably a .223 round shot from an M4 considering it was close-quarters.

**Carrabow** · 04-05-2011, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by FailSafe

Originally Posted by Koojo

They don't use .22 rounds these guys.

Sure they do, depending on the circumstances- special forces teams aren't bound by the usual weapons choices.

That said, it was probably a .223 round shot from an M4 considering it was close-quarters.

You forgot HK 41, 51 in a array of calibers

**Thormaturge** · 04-05-2011, 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by bobo746

I'm not pro american but what else could they do if they arrested him and took him back to the states that would just give his followers another reason to carry on and demand his release he's better of at the bottom of the ocean imo.

I agree entirely.

The man was an admitted mass murderer with no remorse, who intended to continue.

If he had surrendered to the Seals then I can understand some criticism, but he didn't. What were they supposed to do, read him his rights? Make him a pot of tea?

Hopefully sufficient information has been obtained to identify other members of his organization, and the world has been made just a tad safer in the long term.

I expect we will still have to remove our shoes at airports though.....

It is interesting that information leading to this action was obtained through interrogating suspects at Guantanamo Bay. Now we understand Obama's decision to keep the base open.

As for that photo from inside the situation Room. Obama looks angry and Clinton looks shocked.

I think they've just seen Dick Cheney's 2012 Republican nomination poster on the wall of Obama's house.

**FailSafe** · 04-05-2011, 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by Carrabow

You forgot HK 41, 51 in a array of calibers

I would take that bet.

It would have been an M4 (with a 30 round mag) or (though not likely) a 9mm or .45 round.

Edited- I did a search to try to find the info- there are at least 4 different rifles (and a couple of pistols) in the running.

**Butterfly** · 04-05-2011, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by The_Ghost_Of_The_Moog

The US haven't really clarified their story. Yet they had sufficient time to do it. Puttng the body out of reach in the most extreme way is now only going to satisfy the most credulous. So they are going to have to lay out all their (gruesome) evidence now, which they wouldn't have had to do if they'd used common sense initially.

I think the story is highly misleading for several reasons. It distracts the attention from the truth and they must have known the story had holes,

in the meantime, in Libya and Syria

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