Legalise all drugs, says former Labour Home Office minister

**Loy Toy** · 18-12-2010, 01:36 AM

I have always been a supporter of the legalization of illicit drugs with the taxes generated being pumped into social programes including educating young people about the dangers about using such substances.

To rid the world of the underground manufacture and sale of these sometimes very dangerous and polluted/ cut substances will also rid society of the the animals who at present have control over millions of our youths from a very early age.

I like others here believe it will never happen and for the life of me I have no idea why.

**EssEffBee** · 18-12-2010, 02:34 AM

Originally Posted by Loy Toy

I have always been a supporter of the legalization of illicit drugs with the taxes generated being pumped into social programes including educating young people about the dangers about using such substances.

To rid the world of the underground manufacture and sale of these sometimes very dangerous and polluted/ cut substances will also rid society of the the animals who at present have control over millions of our youths from a very early age.

I like others here believe it will never happen and for the life of me I have no idea why.

LT. Don't be so pessimistic.

It can happen if enough people start to use their brains & simply 'vote' accordingly.
Prohibition, which occured about 60 years ago, did nothing but enhance the whole drug scenario.
It's about time people got on their hind legs & demanded 'logic' from their governments instead of moralistic rubbish. Drugs & morals have little in common but this argument is used time & time again to maintain the current fruitless & inane 'war on drugs'.

**mikediver** · 18-12-2010, 02:39 AM

Here in the US the "War on Drugs" did not start until 1969, with the election of Nixon. This was when marijuana was made a class 1 narcotic while cocaine was only a class 2. Science, and any kind of rationality, had little or nothing to do with the war on drugs from the very beginning. Prior to Nixon, in the US there was a patchwork of state laws that made some drugs illegal in some places. The laws were usually totally racist in nature; for instance, opium was made illegal in California in the late 1800's, but only if smoked, and only if smoked in Chinatown. White people took their opium in various liquid concoctions like Laudanum. Marijuana was made illegal in Texas during the great depression to help deport migrant Mexican workers that could not afford booze to liven up their limited spare time, and used home grown weed instead. Cocaine was made illegal in New York during the 1930's after a series of yellow journalism articles about black dock workers raping (white) women after being driven into a sexual frenzy by cocaine. By the way, the dock workers took cocaine because their employers gave it to them so they could work harder and longer.

What has made the international debate about drug enforcement and legalization so difficult, even with all the intense harm to many nations brought on by the criminal gangs that profit so greatly from the trade, is that the whole thing is required by international treaties. The first such international treaty was pushed by Teddy Rooseveldt in the early 1900's to help China fight the opium trade that had between 30 and 50% of their population addicted to opium. This was a worthy cause; at the time. The US pushed to extend these treaties to cover a whole lot more in the 60's and 70's. We are all handcuffed until someone tears them down. You can buy and use marijuana in Amsterdam cafes, but it is still illegal. In Jamaica Ganja (marijuana) is everywhere and there is no enforcement (unless you are a foreigner), but it is still illegal. All of this is because if they made the drugs legal then the US would lead a crusade against them and force all kinds of international sanctions on the whole country. And this is while legalization of marijuana was put on last November's ballot in California.

I am an American, a veteran, and, I believe, a patriot. That does not mean that I don't think some of my countries policies are stupid in the extreme.

**dirtydog** · 18-12-2010, 02:41 AM

Originally Posted by SiLeakHunt

The only issue in the UK is that the politician who pushed through legalisation would be committing public suicide

dunno, look at the money it would create, look at how much drug problems there are in Thailand when the sentence is the ultimate, ie death, yet drugs are freely available and I assume being bought, be interesting to see how much the govt makes off of cigarettes in the UK because I am sure they would make more on drugs, as for illegal dealers, there are always grey imports of everything anyway, nothing can be done about that.

**Ubermensch** · 18-12-2010, 02:43 AM

Originally Posted by madjbs

Strange argument you have there

It's no argument, it's common sense.

As the law stands now, selling something that is legal, down the market or whatever, such as moody booze & fags, isn't as serious a crime than selling something that is illegal, such as weed or coke.

If the law was changed, making the coke & weed legal, you then wouldn't be commiting any worse offence by selling the booze/smokes/coke/weed alongside each other.

**EssEffBee** · 18-12-2010, 02:52 AM

Originally Posted by madjbs

Originally Posted by Ubermensch

If hard drugs were legal the crime of selling them unlicensed would be no worse an offence than selling something like booze.

Strange argument you have there. It is like saying that selling a nuclear bomb to someone is no worse than selling them an illegal switchblade. Of course it can be a worse offense!

A person cannot sit back in their 'comfy chair' & enjoy a nuclear bomb...unless that person is george bush or the like. A drug user cannot be equated to a megalomaniac.

**Ubermensch** · 18-12-2010, 03:00 AM

The same people who bang on about the 'evils' of drugs are probably doing it with a fag or a beer in their hand.

pretending to have beliefs, opinions, virtues, feelings, qualities, or standards that one does not actually have

Hypocrisy

If someone chooses to get themselves wasted on an alternative drug to the one you do, that's entirely a matter for them.

**Fast Eddie** · 18-12-2010, 03:51 AM

Originally Posted by Ubermensch

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie

Illegal dealing would still be a crime punishable in exactly the same way that it currently is

It wouldn't.

If hard drugs were legal the crime of selling them unlicensed would be no worse an offence than selling something like booze.

I don't think it would.

The punishment for unlicensed selling can be as severe or as lenient as the government choose to make it.

In this instance it would not make any sense for them to take any more lenient a stance than they currently do, if their intention was to take better control of the trade.

**nigelandjan** · 18-12-2010, 03:58 AM

It never fails to amaze me why people think they can enhance their poxy empty numbnut lives with any kind of drugs

**Fast Eddie** · 18-12-2010, 04:04 AM

^ I take it you've never enjoyed relaxing with a few cold beers then?

**Jools** · 18-12-2010, 04:14 AM

I will believe it when I see it happening.

**Loy Toy** · 18-12-2010, 04:25 AM

Originally Posted by EssEffBee

LT. Don't be so pessimistic.

I am not be pessimistic at all only stating facts as I have experienced them.

In my post I stated >

Originally Posted by Loy Toy

To rid the world of the underground manufacture and sale of these sometimes very dangerous and polluted/ cut substances

It is a fact that underground and illegal drug manufacturers cut drugs with dangerous chemicals which in most cases causes death.

And >

Originally Posted by Loy Toy

will also rid society of the the animals who at present have control over millions of our youths from a very early age

The sale and distribution of illicit drugs is starting direct to our school children these days and it is a horrible out of control situation.

The animals targeting our children must be stopped and the best way to do it is to take away their very lucrative business now. These cvnts use every underhanded and standover means to hook our kids and you said >

Originally Posted by EssEffBee

It can happen if enough people start to use their brains & simply 'vote' accordingly.

Unfortunately children of 12~16 cannot vote the last time I checked and you are making the same mistake as most other it seems.

Drugs is not destroying us old bastards, moreover the youth of this planet are being decimated by this out of control (at present) evil business.

**Ubermensch** · 18-12-2010, 05:13 AM

Originally Posted by Loy Toy

The animals targeting our children must be stopped and the best way to do it is to take away their very lucrative business now. These cvnts use every underhanded and standover means to hook our kids

The idea of dealers 'targeting' kids is a myth. Kids haven't got any money. What would be the point?

only stating facts as I have experienced them

I respect your views, you obviously have some experience, but saying...

It is a fact that underground and illegal drug manufacturers cut drugs with dangerous chemicals which in most cases causes death

... indicates your experience is quite limited.

All drugs are cut, but the % of deaths must - at a guess - be in the 0.00000000001 region, in comparison to use.

If people are being 'decimated' by drugs, making them legal isn't going to solve anything.

I don't support it, but Thaksin's way was the only way to stop drug abuse.

**rickschoppers** · 18-12-2010, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by louis key

just for thought, nations with liberal drug laws have seen a reduction in addicts.

Yes, there is a lot of truth in this statement. It is not always the allure of the drug itself, but rather doing something that is illegal and the rush humans get from that (not the drug). California is close to legalizing marijuana and it would be the smartest move they ever made. The cost of trying to "fight the war on drugs" , in this case marijuana, would disappear and the money saved and police hours gained could be used to fight more damaging crimes on humanity. Also, the amount of money gained would help them dig out of the near bankrupcy they are in right now. If drugs were legalized, the allure would diminish and usage would decrease. Amsterdam and other cities have shown this. Drug lords would probably go out of business unless they ligitamized their business which would create money to stimutate the dismal economy.
I am also a father and know that kids may experiment, but if you take away the idea that it is illegal, they may not want to do it as much. I personally to not feel the world will collapse if drugs are legalized and controlled. Just my opinion and one that will not be agreed upon by all. Your choice, but it should also be your choice if you want to abuse your body or not. Remember, alcohol is one of the most damaging drugs to any body, but governments allow it and people continue to die and have numerous disease states because of consuming it. Your choice, but there are healthier drugs to consume.

**Loy Toy** · 18-12-2010, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by Ubermensch

The idea of dealers 'targeting' kids is a myth. Kids haven't got any money. What would be the point?

Wrong again.

The kids of today have access to funds by way of their parents and petty crime, house break-ins and mafia style stand-over tactics within schools.

And again.

Originally Posted by Ubermensch

All drugs are cut, but the % of deaths must - at a guess - be in the 0.00000000001 region, in comparison to use.

Medical tests have shown that very few deaths occur due to the use of "clean" heroin moreover overdose related deaths when using tainted/cut drugs is quite high in comparison.

I lost 3 close friends (at a very young age) who injected cut heroin and if governments had absolute control over the procurement of raw materials, processing and distribution of illicit drugs at least the end product would remain relatively safe to use.

In fact I have no idea why there is any debate about this subject and with all due respect to those that think differently.

We would see a drop with regard to young uses due to the mere fact the stigma is removed which (with a large percentage of youths) draw them to try illegal drugs in the first place.

**nedwalk** · 18-12-2010, 11:43 AM

Not to mention the fact that if i feel the need to sit down at MY HOME, crack a cold beer and spark up a bunger..i should be entitled to do it, as it is my right surely..if i get caught driveing pissed or stoned i deserve the full weight of society and its punishments, but when i,m in my own environs, why the fuck should i be persecuted..mmmm yes indeed the bleeding hearts do have a lot to answer to

**nigelandjan** · 18-12-2010, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie

^ I take it you've never enjoyed relaxing with a few cold beers then?

For the record I dont drink mate , however I will have an occasional beer if the fancy takes me , had half a Stella 3 weeks ago , if others want to drink etc its up to them , I just dont feel the need to do it to relax as you put it as some do. I like to live in the real world ( as cruel as it can be sometimes ) not some fantasy kingdom that sooner or later crash lands into reality

**nigelandjan** · 18-12-2010, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by Ubermensch

Kids haven't got any money.

Thats very true mate ,, which brings forth the next prob in the drugs cycle ,,crime

**EssEffBee** · 19-12-2010, 11:20 PM

I suggest we kill anybody who uses illegal drugs. This should surely stop the use of illegal drugs.

I also suggest that we kill anybody who kills anybody else. This should surely stop the killing of anybody.

I also suggest that we enforce the ritual of standing for one's national anthem. If one does not stand for one's own anthem, a prison sentence shall be mandatory.

Further, the excessive consumption of antibiotics will be deemed as a major criminal offense since the unnecessary use of these drugs can & will debilitate the effectiveness of these harmful drugs.

On the other hand, if you want to treat yourself badly, go ahead & do so. Just don't overuse antibiotics.

**pickel** · 19-12-2010, 11:43 PM

In these days of ever increasing privatized prison systems run by the friends and donors of politicians and their campaigns, it will not happen.

Even though it is such a blatantly obvious decision that should be undertaken, the voters are too brainwashed by FOX, The Sun, and other tabloid shite.

Also, what a lot of voters don't realize is that billions of $$$$ of money made through the illicit drug trade are laundered through the worlds banks and stock exchanges. If this money was taken out of the loop, they would collapse.

The problem and solution are much grander than looking out your car window at the junkie on the street and thinking they should be locked up, or free to do as they choose.

Think about it..........

**ItsRobsLife** · 20-12-2010, 02:08 AM

Originally Posted by nigelandjan

I just dont feel the need to do it to relax as you put it as some do. I like to live in the real world ( as cruel as it can be sometimes ) not some fantasy kingdom that sooner or later crash lands into reality

Bad trip eh? Shit happens, get over it.

**rickschoppers** · 20-12-2010, 02:30 AM

Originally Posted by pickel

In these days of ever increasing privatized prison systems run by the friends and donors of politicians and their campaigns, it will not happen.

Even though it is such a blatantly obvious decision that should be undertaken, the voters are too brainwashed by FOX, The Sun, and other tabloid shite.

Also, what a lot of voters don't realize is that billions of $$$$ of money made through the illicit drug trade are laundered through the worlds banks and stock exchanges. If this money was taken out of the loop, they would collapse.

The problem and solution are much grander than looking out your car window at the junkie on the street and thinking they should be locked up, or free to do as they choose.

Think about it..........

Thought about it and do not agree with the stock market and bank collapse comment. If drugs were legalized and regulated, it would mean there would be tax generation on top of individuals growing or supplying drugs like marijuana making the profit instead of the drug cartels. This money would then reenter the economy which includes large investments in the stock market, bank accounts which allow banks to make loans and general spending in the private sector. It is a question everyone needs to decide and in the mean time, the majority continues to shrink and the minority continues to grow.

**ItsRobsLife** · 20-12-2010, 03:17 AM

The UK is the biggest consumer of illicit drugs in Europe, the governments stand makes it the most profitable unregulated market, it creates associated crime and increases health risks, it stamps out innovation in synthetic drugs that are safer to obtain and consume than those available, to perpetuate the cycle. Legalisation won't happen. Prohibition is the simplest way to criminalise, disenfranchise and chemically lobotomise the largest possible section of society.

A price of power the Junta think is worth paying.

Could be worse, you can't even get a decent toot in Thailand.

**Johnny Longprong** · 20-12-2010, 07:15 AM

Drugs? Just don't.

Thread: Legalise all drugs, says former Labour Home Office minister

Thread Tools

Display

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

Posting Permissions