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Didn't say I felt at home here nor did I say it is socialist utopia, oh and by the way I don't receive any welfare benefits. As for your starting a business with almost no capital I have heard the same 'fairy-tales' elsewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostandfound
Here here, just hope I can snaffle up some sort of work that will get me out of the UK for good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurgen
you moron !Quote:
what do you think somebody is going to create?
that sentence typifies the negative thinking common to proponents of an all encompassing benefit system.
you buy/make something for one pound, and sell it on for one pound fifty.
do it enough times and you've got yourself a business and an income.
there are thousands of successful people in the uk who started from a market stall and a small investment. its not rocket science, all it takes is balls and some self belief.
i have a friend in the uk who started selling goods on wembley sunday market 25 years ago, no education to speak of. refused to go on the dole when his one and only job as a barman fell through. now he lives in a 2 million pound house ... luck you say? not at all, hunger and desperation were the driving forces, and he still works 7 days a week because he believes hard work and saving is the only way to achieve success and security for the future.
the recession? he dropped his prices to make his products more affordable, and his turnover doubled.
tens of thousands, if not more, like him in the uk and elsewhere.
benefits ? ....... for workshy losers only i'm afraid.
so take your outdated socialist nonsense elsewhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by taxexile
I am not a socialist and instead of quoting situations relating to friends of yours wake up and live in the real world!
"I'm not BNP, but my boyfriend is"?Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteKnightI am not a socialist and instead of quoting situations relating to friends of yours wake up and live in the real world!Quote:
Originally Posted by taxexile
I used to think benefits were just Danegeld, but it's more complex than that.
I bounced some ideas off my colleague in the lab the other day, and we came to the conclusion that the UK has a structural problem in that you have a benefits system that is effectively a massive "moral hazard" for a whole class of people.
The original idea behind benefits was an insurance policy for workers; in fact the whole welfare state and the associated rights culture stems from legitimately won rights for workers... alas the moral hazard has kicked in, and with the help of crypto-capitalist union bosses and short-termist/populist governments (another structural problem), the workers have been turned into shirkers; and much like the moral hazard we hear of of the bank bailouts; not to mention the pension protection fund moral hazard, a situation has been allowed to develop where a whole generation and class of people has inherited the rights culture of an earlier generation of workers, but without the responsibility culture that used to be the other side of the coin.
This moral hazard created labour shortages, and partly created a specious rationale for mass immigration to fill the vacancies; now as the tide of industry and eastern EU workers has gone out it's left the countries cockles exposed for all to see.
We concluded (in our wisdom) that the only solution is to completely and suddenly dismantle the welfare state; to simultaneously suspend all immigration; and to create some Shenzhen-style SEZs in places like Humberside, Teesside, Donside, Merseyside, Tyneside, Clydeside etc... to stimulate new business development and industrial relocations (this would require leaving the EU probably, as their socialist morays wouldn't stand for it).
The state is too big, and there are millions: doleys, NEETS, students, public sector workers, QUANGOs, immigrants, who are clients of this state. This is a state that insists on conjuring up law after law, and seems to think the answer to everything is an expensive centralised online computer system that never gets finished on time (if at all).
It's been worsened by a government who is only in power on 22% of the national vote, and pretty much only because Scotland votes Labour... and has a huge proportion of "clients of the state" in it.
...and with their low interest rates to soften the effects of the Asian Economic Crisis way back when, they've inadvertently engineered a massive bubble, and pissed all the money away.
On what? Wars where we don't even get a return on investment of ordnance with oil. What's the point in spending money on a war if you don't get any resources back for all the effort?! We seem to have forgotten how we got to such prosperity in this country.
I sometimes see the relationship between the state and benefits system as a bit like pyramid selling, where the state seems to need to suck in more and more clients (think of the tax credits system and the huge numbers of part-time workers now) to justify the growth in the state to administer them all... in the end it has to go bust, because the money is generated by adding some value to some lump of physical matter or information; a system where it's just filtered around an enormous bloated network has an intrinsic entropy... eventually, there's just not enough new input to the system, and it collapses.
"WhiteKnight" is wrong on a number of counts (his evident fixation with rectal orifices and tunnel-vision notwithstanding):
1. You don't need a good educational background or good financial backing to be entrepreneurial - but you do need a state that doesn't smother your every move with bureaucracy and taxes.
2. Just because there will always be those who don't want to work, that doesn't mean they deserve to live off of those who do, and to add insult, have a state that coerces taxes out of people who do the right thing, to subsidise the moral hazard of those who (are thus able to) choose to do the wrong thing - it sends a completely immoral message to young people; i.e.: work hard and get mugged; sit on your arse and get a handout.
3. NI isn't strictly a tax, but effectively it is... how many people do you know who voluntarily opt out of NI?!
House of Commons - Social Security - Fifth Report
The NHS does not have a god given right to exist; nor does the benefits or the measly and increasingly pointless state pension. Moreover, they don't have to be funded by anything resembling a tax... people could learn to take responsibility for their own futures and for their own families instead of being encouraged to be so selfish and individualistic... how do Thai families do it? You think you can't learn anything from the developing world?!
The state needs to serve people as a facilitator; not command them like a Stalinist regime with glorious 5-year plans.
4. If remember rightly, the idea behind the poll tax was that every single person paid their fair share of tax, instead of some people living as a group and evading paying their fair share, whilst someone who lived alone paid the full whack - I've never understood why socialists opposed fair taxation - save for the fact that they seem to want something for nothing.
5. VAT on fuel, yes, and then Labour removed the 10p rate of tax and betrayed the working classes en masse...
The rest of your babble just doesn't make any sense... just constant excuses.
From my own life experience - comparing myself to my peers and siblings - the worse thing you can do to someone is to take away their incentive to better themselves, and thats what benefits and a bloated state does... pass every decision up to big brother; then like a good termite, pay him half your earnings to support the bad termites.
To Buriramboy, I'd say that there is one class of unskilled work that deserves more pay, and that's jobs associated with danger and hygiene; emergency services, police, binmen, carers, nurses; but apart from that I'm with you.
They had every chance to prove that the Labour way works, but the cupboards are bare, and socialism is over...
^
You are so thick it beggars belief; you have neither read nor understood anything I said along with putting your own imputations on various issues (here's one: 'The NHS does not have a god given right to exist; nor does the benefits or the measly and increasingly pointless state pension*') where the evidence had you bothered to read or simply watch the news shows the opposite.
I realize you of course that you like so many others here incapable of thinking for yourself must go along with the 'herd-mentality' to be considered 'one of the boys'. Does this make sense to you? Of course not - oh so sad, what are you going to do when your crones desert you as they no doubt will at some point in your life?
Continue in your sad little life you will be the one in tears eventually, when that happens do allow me the grand pleasure of saying 'I told you so.' Oh dear Captain Nemo still hasn't an inkling of a clue what I am talking about. Do carry on kissing Buriramboy's arse his views are as dumb as your own.
* Not what I said and make no mistake the majority of people do not want to see the demise of the NHS - that's a fact, nothing to do with what you I think - wake up and see the reality.
Complete and utter bollocks. I have two very close friends, with few qualifications, except what the YTS course Maggie provided us. Both are now multi millionaires from scratch. If you want it bad enough, its there for the taking.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteKnight
Enough is enough. Its about time those people who are able, were made to take responsibility for themselves.
Now that's real interesting, I did a YTS course provided by Maggie and it was f**** useless! Now your friends did well, that's what I like to hear. Please PM details together with the relevant business plan, enlightenment is the spice of life where I am concerned.Quote:
Originally Posted by astasinim
Ps: They needn't worry about competition I am a long way away.
The number of people currently economically inactive is a record high of 8.16 million.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteKnight
Just over 21% of people of working age.
Don't thank me, thank: http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?ID=12
Right and jack the riper was not a murderer either ha bloody ha. This guy has got to be either Dan, or more likely Mr Ant as the 'arguments' put forward are so similar.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteKnight
That would include the housewifes who chose not to be "economically active". What is wrong with that?Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy dog
Wasn't it Churchill who said he doesn't believe in statistics he had not faked himself?
Can't find that one. But did find this "it is a good thing for an uneducated man to read books of quotations". Winston Churchill, 1930.Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeovers
Living in the UK is to be condemned as a Tax Cow.
Unless of course you are one of millions of scrounging scum who know life owes then a living.
No need to PM you.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteKnight
We all went into construction in the mid to late 80`s. Basically it was an apprenticeship under a new name. All of us went into various fields and served our time, and worked hard.
Once established locally as a decent tradesman, some decided to branch out on their own, and buy old run down houses, do them up and put them back on the market for a nice profit, whilst also maintaining day to day work to ensure an income was coming in. These guys were working all hours god sends, and sacrificing a lot. Once Jo public realised it was an easy way to make money, they branched out into buying land, and doing new builds.
Not too difficult really. Know what your good at, work hard, add in a little luck and Bobs your mothers auntie.
OH LOOK!! An Anti-Labour Government news report by the TELEGRAPH!
Stop the fuckin presses!
So does this mean that they were IN FAVOUR OF USING TAX PAYERS MONEY to bail out the debts of banks and heavy British industry - but are NOW AGAINST paying off the HUGE FUCKING DEBT THE PEOPLE OF BRITAIN NOW HAVE BECAUSE OF THAT?
You can fuck right off if you think we should "cut back on NHS" or "Slash education"..
HERE's an idea! Let's tax the fuck out of those sectors that gave us so much grief in the first bloody place to make up the losses to the people?
No - unacceptable to so many of you true free-market globalized dick-heads.
The NHS - That's the organization that picks up the bill of looking after people who have done everything in their power to fuck up their own health.
^
I wonder how many people would like to see your comment, think about their mum's and dad's who never smoked - drank only lightly, etc - and kcik your fooking lights out. Twat.
As you know Tax Exile I respect your compassion along these lines - and share it to a degree. But would you not agree that the vast majority of people in the UK who enter Uni to become Dentists, Doctors, Accountants, Solicitors, etc - do so after having completed a Private (or "Public") school certificate - with English A Levels etc, and NOT those who came fromt his "pull up your socks" scenario that you reflect upon? If so - aren't we ignoring the 90% who may well be just as good or BETTER? Isn't that good for the UK?Quote:
Originally Posted by taxexile
You? Are you one of the "private/Publics" or a State Schooler ? Do tell.
Please - do tell..
^It's all down to breeding, 2 shelf stackers are unlikely to produce a lawyer, and the children of shelf stackers would not fit in at private schools.
state school thomas, state school.
I found this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by superman
Quote:
Do not trust any statistics you did not fake yourself. (Winston Churchill)
Source
But I found also sources that claim it is not by Churchill.
Okay - good stuff - (me too - and also professional). So I also agree the slackers can f off. So let's get onto the real issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by taxexile
Surely the entire society is entitled to state school and universal health care as a bottom line, no?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer
Might have known this left wing nut job would show up.
I`ll keep it short and to the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer
No.
I understand where your coming from Tom - A life time of being told the world owes you a living, you've no need to look after yourself, you're entitled to fuck up your health - someone else will pick up the bill.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer
And then someone comes along and points out that Welfare is actually robbing people of the ability to take their own life into their own hands - It's got to be a bit of a shock, so yes lash out with the Twat bit.
But think about it ..... do.
A whole nation robbed of the ability to take charge of life - Hand out to the Government and fucked over by the Government with promises they can't keep.
Hand-Out Britain...... And the joke, they've actually got the Tax Cows believing the Government can look after you better than you can look after yourself.