View Poll Results: Is Cameron right?

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  • Yes

    28 73.68%
  • No

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  • Yes and Lord Mandelson is a cock

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  1. #1

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    Burglars leave human rights outside, says Cameron

    Burglars leave human rights outside, says Cameron



    Cameron: Burglars 'forfeit their human rights'

    Burglars "leave their human rights outside" when they break in to a property, Conservative leader David Cameron has said.

    He promised to strengthen the law to protect householders who exercise their "legitimate" right to self-defence when confronted by an intruder.

    This would mean fewer cases were taken to court, he told the BBC.

    The government said Mr Cameron's comments amounted to a "wonderful sound bite" but "not a practical policy".

    The Tory leader has previously spoken out on the issue after TV presenter Myleene Klass complained that she was cautioned by police for waving a knife at intruders who entered her garden.

    His latest comments come after businessman Munir Hussain, who was jailed for permanently injuring an intruder who attacked him and his family, was freed by the Court of Appeal.

    'Threat to family'

    Speaking on BBC One's Politics Show, Mr Cameron said: "It's to make sure that fewer cases, frankly, are taken to court, that fewer people are arrested for doing what I think is perfectly legitimate, which is to defend yourself in your own home.

    "The moment a burglar steps over your threshold, and invades your property, with all the threat that gives to you, your family and your livelihood, I think they leave their human rights outside."

    Mr Cameron said that, under the Conservative proposals, householders would only face prosecution if they used "grossly disproportionate" force against a burglar.

    He added: "You're raising the bar effectively. That will be a good step forward."

    But Lord Mandelson said: "It's a wonderful sound bite but that's all it is. You know it's not a practical policy.

    "It's not a practical principle of law that you can operate and which you say that anyone who is attempting to burgle another house, thereby renounces all their rights under the law. What sort of country is he trying to create?

    "Of course it will receive short-term public applause from those who want to get tough on burglars, as we do in our government, but where's the practical common sense policy thinking?"


  2. #2
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    I subscribe to the unwritten law in Thailand. Any intruder found inside your property is fair game. The unofficial advise is shoot the B******d and make sure he is dead. Little tip, your boundary fence should be 1.2 mtr or higher or else they could have "wandered in". BTW there are visible and invisible ways to get alerted when someone is entering your property. Prevention is the best action.
    ‎" Beat Me With The Truth, Don't Torture Me With Lies! "

  3. #3
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    You could ask Lord Mandelson what kind of country you create if you cant even defend yourself from people forcefully breaking in to your home. It's the ultimate horror scenario, you do not know how far they will go if you just surrender to them and let them tie up your children your wife and yourself, you do not have time to really find out, why is it the innocent home-owner that have to stand with all this uncertainty and difficult split second choices.

    Much more easy to let the bad guys know, once the threshold of other peoples homes have been breached you are on your own with next to no protection from the law, because it really is the innocent family that have a demand on that protection.

    This is no Joke, in my country you even get a fine if your dog bites a burglar.

    Anyway anyone breaking in here I protect my family with whatever it takes, no warnings no holding back, and deal with the law after, the better choice every-time.

  4. #4
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    If I broke into someone's house with the intent to burgle I would expect I would take a weapon with me in the event I got caught and or attacked. As a burgler I would expect the worst and being the aggressor could not complain if I was injured whilst committing potentially a violent crime.

    How any law can say you cannot fight fire with fire or react aggressively to a blatant aggressive act (such as a burglary) angers me.

    I would rather take my chances in court rather then not protecting my family and property.

  5. #5

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    ^Most burglars don't carry weapons in the UK.

  6. #6
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    ^ What crowbars and other mechanical break-in devices are not weapons?

    Anyway most kitchens are full of killing weapons so most criminals would be fools to carry any tools on site.

  7. #7

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    Burglars are not looking for confrontation, they are looking to nick stuff from the easiest place possible.
    I should imagine it is just as much a suprise to them as it is to the house occupier if they come across each other during the burglary, thats when things go wrong.

  8. #8
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    With all due repects I believe MOST thieves plan something in the event they get cornered.

    They are in the process of committing potentially a violent crime and would be stupid if they don't have anything on hand to protect themselves.

    Your making these thieving bastards sound like home removalists DD.

  9. #9

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    I should imagine that 99 percent of burglars aren't even seen, so you got 1 percent that are and therein is where the problem starts, they want to escape, the house owner wants to catch them, the burglar at present in the UK has more rights, the best way to restrain some one is to make sure they are really badly injured, sadly the UK police don't like civilians doing that though

  10. #10
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    Unfortunately home burglary's even in European country's are getting more violent, and confrontation is in some cases part of the plan with the home occupants getting tortured to tell where the valuables are/codes for safes ect. and with resulting murder in some instances, up to you to chose what chances you want to take.

    Here in Th we see many burglars turn very violent, I remember several nasty cases over the last few years.

    The whole point is that they are not supposed to be there in the first place, and why should it be you left with the uncertainty as to guess their intentions and potential for violence, You only have to be wrong once thats you fvcked, they can break into home after home after home, until one day they loose it high on dope, fear or anger and everything goes wrong, and with present law in UK you just have to sit back and take the chance it wont be in your home.

    No thanks.

  11. #11
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    99% hey?

    Well considering that there are hundreds of home break-ins every day in the UK there are going to be at least 2 or 3 life threatening situations per day that the powers at be have to make a decision on.

    I agree with the OP and that burglers lose all rights when they commit an aggresive act and when doing so threatens someone else's family and property.

  12. #12
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    I would still recommend that people make their bedrooms their safe room as much as possible, deadbolts on the inside in use when at sleep, a mobile in the bedroom and a panic button to an alarmsystem, we are not getting younger many of us and buying time can save your life, but still be prepared to use ultimate force if necessary, don't threaten, once you believe you are at that desperate point you want all the advantage you can get.

  13. #13
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    Do unto others, as they would do unto you,ONLY DO IT FIRST!!!!!!!!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtydog View Post
    ^Most burglars don't carry weapons in the UK.
    They will if this becomes law.

    Reasonable force to subdue or eject an intruder should be acceptable.

  15. #15

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    ^We don't allow pacifists into the news forum begbie, either swear your allegience to the chop their balls off brigade or keep out of the news forum

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtydog
    Burglars are not looking for confrontation, they are looking to nick stuff from the easiest place possible.
    I guess it's best to not make it the "easiest place possible" then, by putting a hammer into their skull. Don't sound like easy quid to me.

  17. #17

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    ^I bet you club baby seals to death just for fun

  18. #18

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    Notice begbie hasn't come back, one less tree hugging gay liberal in the news forum.....

  19. #19
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    Of course he is right, seems the policy is lifted from a proposal by the British National Party though. This is what they have to say about law and order in the UK on their website: Long but well worth a read.

    "Britain suffers from more than 27,000 crimes per day, or more than ten million crimes per year – the direct result of decades of softly-softly politically correct policing and a failed social engineering policy which has put the rights of yobs and criminals above that of victims.

    According to the Office for National Statistics’ British Crime Survey of 2008, 22 percent of people in Britain will be the victim of some crime during the course of a single year.
    To combat this shocking state of affairs, the British National Party seeks a return to traditional standards of law enforcement, combined with social reform directed at addressing the root causes of criminal behaviour.


    To this end, BNP crime and justice policy will:

    - Free the police and courts from the politically correct straitjacket which is stopping them from doing their jobs properly;
    - End the liberal fixation with the “rights” of criminals and replace it with concern for the rights of victims – and the right of innocent people not to become victims;
    - Re-introduce corporal punishment for petty criminals and vandals;
    - Restore capital punishment for paedophiles, terrorists and murderers as an option for judges in cases where their guilt is proven beyond dispute (such as with DNA or other compelling evidence).
    At the same time, the BNP recognises that decades of social welfare dependence – encouraged by disastrous Labour and Tory policies – which is the primary cause of social delinquency, must be brought to an end.
    Social reform is therefore also required. Workfare, not welfare, except to the neediest, should be the norm. Only in this way can the cycle of social deprivation, which is the primary cause of indigenous criminality, be broken.
    To this end, the BNP will introduce a system of workfare for those in unemployment benefit for more than six months with compulsory work and training in return for decent payment.


    The socialist building block housing concrete monstrosities which blight our urban areas and which are the breeding ground for delinquency and crime will be torn down and replaced with decent housing which encourages the stable family unit.
    Non-indigenous crime – rapidly becoming a serious problem, as the knife and gun crime epidemic spreading throughout our major cities – will be dealt with in terms of BNP immigration and identity policy.


    Overcrowding in prisons will be solved by the deportation of the tens of thousands of foreign criminals to serve their sentences abroad in their home countries. This act alone will free up to 70 percent of jail space in many prisons.


    The BNP will also:

    - Make prisons more austere and make criminals serve their full sentences. Offenders will be made to understand that they are being punished and not rewarded with a state-subsidised holiday for their crimes;
    - Use electronically tagged “chain gangs” to provide labour for projects such as coastal defences;
    - Introduce automatic prison sentences for all repeat offenders;
    - Put police back on the streets and remove their current political correctness shackles;
    - Allow victims of crime full freedom to defend themselves and their property;
    - Make joint custody of children the norm in divorce cases;
    - Grant anonymity to those accused of crimes until they are convicted;
    - Make police concentrate on real criminals and serve the public, not the government’s political aspirations.
    The British National Party alone recognises that crime must be tackled on two levels: firstly by effective policing, and secondly by addressing the root social causes of crime, both indigenous and non-indigenous in origin.
    Addressing these two issues will solve the crime problem."

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spin
    Overcrowding in prisons will be solved by the deportation of the tens of thousands of foreign criminals to serve their sentences abroad in their home countries. This act alone will free up to 70 percent of jail space in many prisons.
    I'd vote for them just on that one.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtydog
    I bet you club baby seals to death just for fun
    I do it more for art's sake actually. That bright crimson red, against a backdrop of virgin white snow and fur, really brings out the duality of human nature.

  22. #22
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    Should start a thread/ poll and with regard to what nationality house would a thief avoid breaking into for fear of physical retaliation and if cornered.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtydog
    I'd vote for them just on that one.
    If have any spare time, visit their website and browse the "Policies" section.

    Their ideas and opinions on all aspects of Britain, like crime, the economy, education, foreign policy, health, all have a refreshing common sense flavour to them.

    Admittedly, they are portrayed as nothing more than a bunch of loopy skinheads in 18 hole doc martins by the media in the UK, but if there was one party that I could be actually arsed to vote for, it would be them.

  24. #24

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    They were in the news a couple of days ago, they have to allow black people to join the bnp, thought that was pretty damn funny, bit like that lethal weapon film with Danny Glover in the South African embassy applying for a visa, but they seem more on par with the conservative party 30 or 40 years ago now rather than just racist thugs.

  25. #25
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    The BNP are like the rest of the other parties, theyve got some shit ideas, some OK ones and some populist ones.
    Its a bit annoying when you get some PC twat jumping down your throat about racism when you mention something about the BNP you agree with.

    I find it very difficult to even bother voting as they all do the same, get in power, promise stuff and deliver very little.
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