No....... 4kgs of smack mate!
A very nawty boy.
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No....... 4kgs of smack mate!
A very nawty boy.
You are "Nut's" you and your old hippie fantasies:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Loy Toy
^ I have always believed the best way to control the problems with regard to the illegal business of hard drugs is to legalize it and therefore remove the criminal side of it effectively eliminating the criminals who run it.
It is very obvious that the tactics that various governments use to deal with this major global industry is simply not working.
The diplomatic stand-off between the United Kingdom and China is a perfect example of this.
You best stick to plastic buckets Mate, or are you ready to open up your very own chain of little drug shops next to the noodle stands outside all the Pattaya schools??
We cant stop burglars either, so why not open estates with free robberi between 09.00 - to midnight ?
Ect. ect.
Well what's your solution then?Quote:
Originally Posted by larvidchr
The illicit drug industry is out of control globally and I sincerely feel the best way to attack it is to become involved in the processing, sales and distribution in a controlled manner.
Take the business away from the underworld and use the money generated from the sales to provide proper councilling and support for the people (addicts) who are drawn to this horrible side of life.
Thats only one crime of the many out of control, the only solution is keep digging in, and working on education, making people understand that they hurt their own most, and making crime socially completely unacceptable, in some country's this is/was working quite well with hard drugs, especially before the upper-classes/sports-stars actors and musicians threw themselves at cocaine that did not have the unacceptable/disgusting/looser label we had managed to give heroin use.
Unfortunately all these role models are working against all the best efforts, and some major country's way of dealing with these people in the press and job wise are also very counter productive, you can say that we have seen a morality slide, and a measure of applauding/looking up to, a civil disobedience culture that has no merit what so ever.
We must turn this around and get it back on track again, so a sports star/ Rap Star / Politician whatever caught using no matter what illicit drug, is out forever- job-wise, social standing wise and publicity wise they must be ridiculed, imprisoned and scorned and left for "dead"
Harsh for the ones caught but ultimately vital for society's perceptions of acceptability of drug use.
In some ways you can look at what they have managed to achieve with cigarette smoking in the US, in most better circles a cigarette smoker is seen as a disgusting freak, yet they all happily use cocaine:rolleyes:, what we need is teaching people to look at drugs the same way "legal" cigarette-smoking is beginning to be looked at everywhere, to make it socially unacceptable is the best way.
Who would 15 years ago have believed how smokers are seen as pests many places today and banned from restaurants and bars, no smoking at work ect. ect. once people can be made to understand that drugs is also very damaging for society in the same way we have made people scorn at smoking and smokers, we will have come a long long way.
Most kids back home in my country's schools today, look at you and say with disgust bvardr you smoke, smokers like me are a fast dying breed, and good so, and this attitude we need for the young to have towards drug abuse as-well, but that is not easy when all their heroes wallow in drugs yet still get headlines and Oscars.
But who knows how things looks in 15 years, just because something is difficult we should not give up especially when the case is so obvious righteous.
:)
In my opinion the illcit drug industry stands alone as the catalyst of most other crimes including break and enter, street robberies not to mention many other related crimes.Quote:
Originally Posted by larvidchr
Remove the stigma and intrigue whereby most people try drugs initially because it is illegal.
Legalization is the only way we can effectively fight this battle unfortunately.
Couldn't agree more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loy Toy
And you know what? fuck this guy, he got into some heavy shit where the stakes are high and it cost him his life. Tough shit.
Of course, the Uk government wanted him brought home nicely and kept alive and put in a cosy prison cell for a few years at Joe sixpack dumbass taxpayers expense. I say fuck that too.
That is not true, drugs is absolutely not alone the catalyst of most other crimes, it is however a big cause, some places much more than others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loy Toy
Defeatism when your at your wit's end!, fortunately have the vast majority of policy and lawmakers around the world not given up, but they are also better informed on the issue than most of the people ready to throw the towel in the ring, and fortunately do the majority of "normal" citizens trust and support the stance for a continued fight.
Unfortunately whilst my, yours and everyone else's arse points to the ground the illicit drug industry will continue to grow out of control particularly with the production of new age drugs such as amphetamines which can be produced in a household kitchen.Quote:
Originally Posted by larvidchr
Whilst we have dinosaurs making critical decisions who have no idea about the real problems on the street the underground criminals will continue to cause their own brand of cancer throughout our society.
I refer to alcohol bootlegging in the 1920's of which the mafia controlled and when the laws were changed they lost their business overnight and then reverted to prostitution, gambling and as of today the sale and distribution of illicit drugs.
Finally I might add that 90% of burglaries and street crime is related to drug addict's need to fund their drug habits here in Pattaya.
Well your ass might be but mine are not, you have your years in plastic and I have mine in working with crime which puts us at not quite the same place experience and knowledge base wise, and the dinosaurs as you call them (because they do not agree with you) have all the latest info from all agency's and scientists on the subject, and funny enough they next to all agree (Governments in the world) that giving drugs free would be even more damaging than the drugs are today, and it very importantly also would be morally wrong, and let's just assume for arguments sake that they are smarter than you Mate:)
And I would like to know where you have that number from (90%) not even the Thai police have that good records and statistics, but if you look in the press it is not far from even between just wanting more money, for having a good time, feeding starving family, and buying yabba, a lot of crime here are in fact related to poverty and alcohol, alcohol probably being the worst offender of them all, the only difference here is that the main dealers/pushers is legalised super-rich on top of Thai society, what on Gods earth makes you think that free drugs would be any less of a problem than the legal alcohol, the worlds worst crime offender bar none, is today. The mind boggels my friend, you haven't thought this through.
Is it not bad enough that your kids have easy access to alcohol, would you like opium-heroin-speed and cocaine on the shelf next to your Black label in Tesco or the mama papa shop where they don't care how old the costumers are. Would you sell it if it became legal, and if so would you sell it to the school friends of your kids?? just asking!! but I know the answer already, no your morals wouldn't let you, but trust me there would be hundreds of thousands that would, and would not care to who or how old, just like with alcohol today where the laws are broken in most shops everyday.
In a nutshell mate you can only control something that you can take control over.
Whilst you will never stop young kids from trying cigarettes, sampling alcohol and experimenting with drugs by controlling the quality and distribution of drugs not to mention removing the criminal element may cut down on the number of youths who try illicit drugs in the first place.
You know human nature...........when someone tells some kids they cannot do something it makes it all the more tempting.
Again human nature.........go figure! :)
The figure was mentioned to me by a local official and based upon a council meeting in Pattaya.
The West should take some tips from China. Save time and money.
Well that is total bull and you know it, you have yourself quite rightly before mentioned on this board that most crimes in Thailand is caused by Alcohol and there is no arguing that fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loy Toy
I have stated on many occassions here on Teakdoor that drugs are the root of most evil across the world (not only in Thailand) and they should be legalized.Quote:
Originally Posted by larvidchr
I stand by my last posts and my opinion.
You want to legalize heroin!!? :banhim1:Quote:
Originally Posted by Loy Toy
I half agree with Loy Toy. I would not legalize it but I would provide it free to addicts. In that way you take out the profit of the drug trade and remove the incentive to create new addicts. Also all the crime to make the money for the next shot would be avoided.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteKnightYou want to legalize heroin!!? :banhim1:Quote:
Originally Posted by Loy Toy
I think your arguing a bit against yourself here lars, on the one hand you mention how smoking cigarettes which is perfectly legal has been stigmatised, quite effectively in a lot of countries I might add, why can't the same be done for legalised drugs, the governments would have one hell of a revenue from legalised drugs to use in stigmatising drugs, and it does take one hell of a lot of money to stigmatise anything.
Loytoy and larvidchr (how the hell do you pronounce that?) have good points that are not necessarily diametrically opposed. Regulate the drugs to remove the mystery and stigamatize them to reduce their use.
Not really one has nothing to do with the other, cigarettes/smoking has not been stigmatised because it is legal but because it is damaging to your health but more importantly because they have succeeded making people believe that it is damaging to every individuals money and to people that do not smoke, you could argue that if Policy makers had been better informed in times past cigarettes would never have been legalised, there is no sense in legalising something you know is wrong and you want to eradicate, cigarettes might be illegal in not to distant a future if some policy makers get their way, the trend is not towards legalising more but to ban more stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtydog
The revenue from cigarettes is undoubtedly a problem and a moral dilemma for policy makers, making something legal that is clearly very dangerous to society, just to make a profit to combat same, and thus create a new moral dilemma, is pure lunacy and really not an option for any sane politician.
And to Takeovers, you are right just handing out drugs from a Goverment source to registered junkies is not the same as legalising drugs, and I believe most Governments have or are experimenting with schemes like that, the Country where they have gone furthest is Holland and that experiment is widely recognised to be a massive failure crime wise and abuse wise, Holland have a sea of junkies and have become the hub of illegal drug-distribution throughout Europe much to the annoyance of its neighbours.
Anyway enough of this, some people are so dug in on this that they refuse to see any arguments against freeing yet another bunch of damaging substances, they probably wont be budged before their own kids stand in the living-room with a legal six-pack of assorted coke/heroin/speed/Lsd and say "hey Mum and Dad I'm of to the slumberparty now, send an ambulance tomorrow to pick up what's left of us" :mid:
With most parents not even knowing their children are using drugs (until it is too late) this scenerio would be preferable.Quote:
Originally Posted by larvidchr
Whilst I understand and agree with a lot of your points Larv I steadfastly believe that the legalization and control of drugs would go a long way towards one day removing it as the main scourge to our society by >
1. Removing the addicts from our jails and saving taxpayers billions of dollars annually.
2. Effectively shutting down underground business who entrap our youth by way of addiction into becoming distributors and mules.
3. Controlling the quality of drugs which will reduce the number of drug related deaths. I have had 2 friends die from tainted/ cut heroin.
4. With the money generated from the sale of these now legal drugs you could set up your anti-drug use media blitz. Yes some children are influenced by well prepared and thought out media warnings but most are drawn by the sinister side of the drug world and try it initially on a dare or peer pressure.
Take away the mystery and most young people wouldn't bother.
There are many other clear benefits and I have been aware of some government officials pushing for the legalization and complete control of the illicit drug business.
By the way I have never used hard drugs and thankfully can say nor has any of my children. In turn I know of many families which have been destroyed by this evil industry.
yep legalise and tax them ,
show me one instance where prohibition has worked ?
LoyToy and Lavidchr both have good arguements.
Would be interesting to know how you two guys stand on gun controll.
Being this OP is about Chinese law, it's important to point out the historical pitfalls of opium legalization in the eyes of the Chinese.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loy Toy
Won't go into detail but unrestricted use of opium was destroying China. The British pushed China hard to legalize opium for the profits to be made by the East India Company. The Chinese government refused and the British decided to teach them a lesson starting 2 "Opium Wars" which resulted in the legalization of opium which further increased opium addiction in China and the loss of Hong Kong and Macao territories.
The Chinese therefore are very serious about drugs, hence the death penalty.
Ironic PM Brown is so vocal on the current execution. He should read his British Parliamentary history regarding the first Opium War and he might realize why the Chinese essentially told him to fuck off.
"a war more unjust in its origin, a war more calculated to cover this country with permanent disgrace, I do not know." - William Gladstone