Will the Philip. pave the way for new Thai business and property laws for foreigners?

I can only offer my thoughts, observations and opinions like anyone else on this subject. But I believe the answer lies within history with respects to comparisons made between the Phillippines and Thailand. Thailand has never been conquered by any nation and there is a reason for this. They uphold a culture that has not been divided, polluted or watered down. A true believe in their own way of thinking, one that has stood the test of time. We may easily judge them, but we do not really understand their ways or what it would be like to be truly Thai. When it comes to push and shove, aren't they really a proud people who may in the end only possess this one last piece of cultural heritage. We can critise them based possibly on our own cultural models and historical events.

Even 1500 years ago when the Khmer people controlled the Thai land they did not control the essence of the Thai culture and their way of thinking. Over 1 million people in the North East Thailand still speak this non tonal language of the Khmer empire.

With respects to the Phillippines, the spainish in the 1500's took this country. First with the sword and then with the cross. Those European models at that time brought the catholic church and a new way of thinking to this land. In some way it seems to change a culture, to what extent I do not know.

If anything you must admire at some level the Thai culture and their way of thinking. It will always be hard for any country to resist a western influence, so in my mind they are just trying to be who they have always been. Keeping, and isolating themselves against the outside world, so it is not so surprising that they will tighten their strings as a westen style of thought is constantly invading their way of life. They at least have some motivation not to cut their kingdom up into tinny pieces and sell it off to the highest bidder, and even more given the western economical shortfalls. Just a thought.

[at]Musty: Not saying you're wrong here, but you aren't comparing much between the 2 either. Both currently have relatively strict anti-foreign investment and property laws because of strong nationalist sentiments in the respective countries at the time of its introduction. If you look at the arguments exchanged pro and contra today, you will notice that both countries use exactly the same lines of arguments and reasoning in their public debate. The same fears and worries and the same factual arguments are voiced. So the spanish do not seem to have automatically paved the ways for further westernization today, that is a path every country has to struggle with, regardless of their history. One might even argue that by not being colonized Thailand has always had to adapt much more proactively to outter influences than other, neighbouring countries, which might be a reason why it's wealther than them and seemingly more western.
But I agree that this is a completely different topic altogether.
But like I stated before, I am not going much into the depths of the respective cultures, I am just trying to follow public and academic debates, much more so in Thailand than in the Philippines, which I admit to now knowing well.
All I think is that such a move might result in slightly more pressure to the Thai government to do likewise.

The Philippines haven't changed any laws so the discussion is moot, (even though as a mining company you can legally dig up bits of their land and put it in a boat and take it away)

When I wrote a Presidential manifesto for a candidate in Indonesia, I made similar suggestions, and he said 'The idea is okay, but no Indonesian would vote for me if I proposed it" So it was canned.

Thanks for your view Plorf, I can see your focus with respects to the academic debate in the 'now'. I also appreciate your desire for constructive debate. :)

My comments in yellow.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rural Surin

Can you as a Farang...really own property in the West?
I don't believe you can really own land in the industrialized West. Everything is controlled by the state. Eminent domain. Vacancy of familial land. The West isn't so special. exceptional, or extraordinary as you envision....

---

I wholeheartedly agree. You pay for the piece of dirt but you will always be taxed on it...forever!!!
Years ago (1980's), I decided that it was wrong for any government to tax people on land that they own. My "simplified" solution was to make land available with 100 year leases, free of tax. The cost of the land would be equal. i.e all land has the same price per square metre or hectare. The lease will automatically be passed on to relatives (or as elected by a "last Will & testament"), free of charge until the lease expires. Upon expiry, the land holder pays the required sum of the lease (this sum only changes with C.P.I.). Should the land holder wish to relinquish the land, it can only be available for the standard lease price...nothing more or nothing less. Of course, there are those that will really want a piece of dirt for reasons of "location" etc & those people may secretly offer an "incentive" to the seller. This is where the Taxation Office does their bit...making the income equal the outgoings.

The way I see it, humans need some very basic things in order to survive. They are:
1] a piece of dirt.
2] water.
3] food.

These things should not be subject to standard market conditions. Water should be government controlled & therefore the supplier should not make a profit but the overheads should be covered. Food production profit should be capped at a sensible & "liveable" rate. Land needs no profit at all since it already exists. Surveyor & other charges may apply.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rural Surin

Your attempts at re-making Asia in your image or Eurocentric model is futile. Never has been nor never will be. Can you as a Farang...really own property in the West?

---

I agree, if foreigners were given rights to own land, you losers would be complaining how you got priced out and how it's not fair because you couldn't get a fair deal. Thai land for the Thais.

---

Believe it or not Butterfly, I fully agree with you. As a matter of fact, have a green.
If Thailand adopted the western ideal of land ownership, we'd all be screaming about the price of land. The worst thing the west did was to invent Real Estate Agents, who are in the same realm as car salesmen, banks & lawyers.
However, if Thailand were to "grow a brain", they could adopt the smart ideas of the west & forget the bad ideas...a perfect opportunity to "beat the west at it's own game". Instead, there is this xenophobic attitude, which is fuelled by moronic nationalism.

From the interesting Professor Pavin Chachavalpongpun, expert on Thai nationalism and Thai identity:

"Thai identity is elusive because of a lack of cultural coherence or uniqueness, so it is easier for its promoters to imagine what is not Thai"

"Thainess...is able to seize power because it can generate mass support for what is often forwarded as the defence of national survival."

"The adherence to Khawnpenthai [Thainess]... is a part of the exercise of Thai nationalism through which power holders portray themselves as legitimate players formulating legitimate policy"

"[The power holders] high degree of power helps create the official version of Thainess that masks political unattractiveness as well as elites' private accummulation"

"Thais comply with this variable nationhood and perceive it as though it is part of their chit winyan, or spirit... This explains why they never look beyond the boundaries of Thai nationhood, and why it always remains predominant, ultimate and supremacist."

"according to this... self-image, Thais are not guilty of anything and blame is always placed upon foreigners"


"The farang... have continously represented a real enough threat to the power interests of the Thai leaders"


"The very idea of nationalism being a rational and self-conscious attempt to achieve autonomy and liberty is demonstrably false. Indeed, nationalism as an ideology is irrational, narrow, hateful and destructive"-- Partha Chatterjee.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Redneck

Thailand has never been conquered by any nation and there is a reason for this.

---

They were 'conquered' in 4 hours by the Japanese in WWII then occupied for the duration of rest of the war.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MUSTY

They at least have some motivation not to cut their kingdom up into tinny pieces and sell it off to the highest bidder

---

In the last few hundred years Siam and Thailand has been cut up and sold to the highest bidder, with former parts of Siam going to China, Burma, Laos and of course as has been in the news recently, Cambodia.

Of course they omit a lot of it from the history books, to suit their revisionist history, to which I assume you have been fooled into believing given the naivety and uninformed nature of your post.

I am aware that the topic of foreign land ownership (1 Rai max with one house allowance) was seriously consided by the Thaksin government and a decision was made that they would pass it once a few of the old stagers passed away.

I have no idea who the old stagers are but maybe Tuddy's reference on a previous post would not be too far from the mark.

under BOI, I believe foreigners can own commercial land

Any country which can manage to keep its airports open is going to fare better than Thailand in 2009.

Good for you Tuddy. I can appreciated the promotion of being suspiscious of conventional and established historic content. As most people tend to follow this theme...that's the principle reason why most are terribly ignorant towards historiography {in general}. Revision works in every which manner.

[quote=EmperorTud;907625]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Redneck

Thailand has never been conquered by any nation and there is a reason for this.

---

They were 'conquered' in 4 hours by the Japanese in WWII then occupied for the duration of rest of the war.


I suppose it is matter of interpretation 'Tuddy', Thailand was the only asian allie for Japan during that time. Japan just wanted to use Thai has a gateway. Some 100 Thai soldiers were believed to have been killed. A cease fire was ordered by Phibun.

But conquered by Japan. The Thai leader took the path of least resistance.

And in four hours, oh I am sorry, you may have been there at the time with your stopwatch.

I appreciate that historians have distorted truths for whatever reason. But the essence of what I was saying is that historically the 'thai people' are a martial race united by a common language and a determination to be free.