Thread: Airline News

Originally Posted by david44

TD airline thread reverts to bickering and absue, point scoring , the amatuer frequent liars versus the armchair pilots.

I've no objection to technical discussions MH730, safety or airline designs profits but seems this is sadly heading to the DH

Amerrigo the Genovese, Ameryck the Cornishman and our founder AM ERIC will be looking for the parachutes.

Oscar Wilde of course had the best analysis America wasn't discovered more detected, wise people left it alone to the pucker hunters.

So funny folks swearing at others for swearing ensuring the entire thread is NSFW

Must dash gotta meet Jack off the inegral flight of the K Kaen to Pieville Slappa express to help with his excess bags/giks?

I've no objection to you fucking off with your stupid, rambling shite either.

That should be interesting. I wonder if that blatant Boeing arse kisser from United will be on it?

CHICAGO: Boeing Co plans to hold a conference call with airlines on Tuesday morning (Nov 20) to discuss systems on the 737 MAX model that crashed in Indonesia last month, according to four sources familiar with the matter.

A Lion Air Boeing 737 MAX crashed in the Java Sea on Oct 29, killing all 189 people on board, in the first major accident involving the latest version of its popular narrow-body plane.


After the crash, the US Federal Aviation Administration warned airlines that erroneous inputs from the anti-stall system's sensors could lead the jet to automatically pitch its nose down even when autopilot is turned off, making it difficult for pilots to control.


American Airlines Group Inc last week said it had been "unaware" of some functions of the so-called Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System (MCAS) designed to prevent the 737 MAX from stalling.


Indonesian investigators said the system was not detailed in Lion Air's flight manual.


Bloomberg first reported on Boeing's plans to hold a call with airlines on Tuesday. One of the sources familiar with the matter told Reuters that the call might be postponed.


Boeing last week said it had provided two updates for operators around the world that re-emphasise existing procedures to deal with situations relating to MCAS. Boeing declined to provide further comment.


In a message to employees on Monday, Boeing CEO Dennis Muilenburg said news reports that claimed the manufacturer withheld information on MCAS from airlines were "untrue" and the function had been described in the flight crew operations manual, according to aviation journalist Jon Ostrower.


In a memo on Friday, a United Airlines union said the carrier's pilots were properly trained to handle an MCAS malfunction even though the system was not mentioned in a course for those switching from older models to the new jet.


A preliminary report on the Lion Air crash will be released on Nov 28 or 29, according to Indonesian investigators who have analysed the doomed jet's flight data recorder.


However, divers have yet to locate the airline's cockpit voice recorder, which would shed light on pilot interactions that are important for gaining a fuller picture of the circumstances of the crash.




https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news...n-air-10949066

Perhaps the Boeing CEO can address the apparent discrepancy in his comments when talking to these chaps.

Pilots flying Boeing’s 737 MAX for American Airlines and Southwest Airlines were not informed during training about a key change to an automatic system that’s been linked to the fatal crash of a Lion Air jet last month, according to pilot representatives at both airlines.

Jon Weaks, president of the Southwest Airlines Pilots Association, said Monday the airline and the pilots “were kept in the dark.”

“We do not like the fact that a new system was put on the aircraft and wasn’t disclosed to anyone or put in the manuals,” he said in an interview. What’s more, he noted, Boeing and the Federal Aviation Administration have now warned “that the system may not be performing as it should.”

“Is there anything else on the MAX Boeing has not told the operators?” he added. “If there is, we need to be informed.”

Noticed this on PPRUNE... FFS!

Passengers asked to pay for repair so LOT plane can take off

After a Boeing 787 Dreamliner hydraulic pump broke down, 249 passengers on board LOT Polish Airlines flight LO92 were asked to foot the bill for repairs so they could take off.

LOT Polish Airlines flight LO92 was supposed to take off from Beijing Capital International Airport (PEK) to Warsaw Chopin Airport (WAW) on November 12, 2018. Passengers were asked to pay for the replacement of the hydraulic pump that broke down on the aircraft they were to board - a Boeing 787 Dreamliner (registered as SP-LRH).

The flight crew noticed the problem upon arriving in Beijing during the after-flight checkup. However, according to LOT Polish Airlines, a Boeing employee asked for a payment in cash to carry out the repair, as reported by Polish media Newsweek. “He had no right to do it, because our settlements are cashless,” said LOT spokesman Adrian Kubicki.

The plane had already been grounded for ten hours in Beijing when an unusual “fundraiser” was organized by a LOT employee that wanted to accelerate the departure. “Some passengers were solicited by a representative of the LOT,” said a passenger to Polish TVN24 channel. “It was finally possible to collect the necessary amount. It was refunded to the four passenger lenders upon arrival in Warsaw, still on the plane.”

The sum collected from passengers amounted to 2,500 Chinese yuan (approximately $360). The plane was eventually repaired, took off and landed in Warsaw with a delay of 9 hours. Additionally to the refund, the four generous donors were given free tickets.

According to LOT, the fault is on their representative. “The representative of LOT should have both cash and credit card with him,” said Kubicki. “The company provides them with funds to solve similar situations. There are no circumstances that justify asking money from passengers.” The airline states that the representative did not consult with anyone before taking the decision.

This mishap is surprisingly not the first one in the world of aviation. On August 15, 2012, an Air France flight from Paris Charles de Gaulle (CDG), France, to Beirut–Rafic Hariri International Airport (BEY), Lebanon, diverted to Cyprus, following a violent protest that erupted at Beirut airport. However, to refuel, the plane had to land in Damas, Syria, which was at war at the time. As transaction by credit card was not guaranteed due to international sanctions, the flight crew asked passengers for cash to pay for the fuel. While unusual, the practice is legal according to international laws.

https://www.aerotime.aero/clement.ch...e-can-take-off

A vidoe on the recent 737 max crash from a 737 pilot. Part of a whole series of videos he has produced.

Strange comment at the end there. I don't think anyone is accusing Boeing of "intentionally withholding" information about the new MCAS. Perhaps this is more of their PR departments attempts at obfuscation.

Boeing are accused of negligently failing to warn pilots that their new system might crash the fucking plane if they didn't learn how to respond to it misbehaving.

One of Indonesia’s aviation chiefs has revealed that the pilot of the Lion Air plane that crashed last month, killing 189 people, fought to keep the plane in the air to the end, even after it stalled and was nose-diving to the ground.


Addressing the Indonesian parliament in Jakarta, Nurcahyo Utomo, the aviation head of the national transportation safety committee, said data retrieved from the flight recorder showed that the pilot “continued to fight until the end of the flight”, according to a report in the Australian newspaper.

Nurcahyo also confirmed the aircraft had experienced “the same obstacles” on the previous day’s flight from Denpasar to Jakarta but on that occasion the pilot had managed to keep control of the plane.

Answers are still being sought about why, the new Boeing 737 Max airplane, operated by one of Indonesia’s biggest airlines, plummeted into Indonesian waters moments after takeoff


In a detailed account of the flight’s final moments, Nurcahyo said the graphs from the flight recorder showed the plane experienced technical difficulties shortly after takeoff as the captain and co-pilot began receiving different airspeed readings.

The plane then began careering up and down, to a height of 5,000ft, before misleading data from one of the aircraft’s attack sensors, which measure the angle of the nose, caused the plane to stall midair.

As the aircraft began to nosedive, the pilot attempted to offset the action, fighting to keep it in the air. However, it became “increasingly difficult to control the airplane”, said Nurcahyo, as the load on the steering wheel became too heavy for the pilot to manually control, and “then the plane drops”. The aircraft crashed into the sea at a speed of more than 400mph.

Analysis of the flight data recorder confirmed the 737 Boeing had no engine problems. Investigators are still searching for the cockpit voice recorder, which may provide more answers on how the tragedy occurred.

Boeing has denied it “intentionally withheld” information about modifications to the plane’s anti-stall system.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ir-says-report

In Lion Air Crash, Black Box Data Reveals Pilots’ Struggle to Regain Control

"Data from the jetliner that crashed into the Java Sea last month shows the pilots fought to save the plane almost from the moment it took off, as the Boeing 737’s nose was repeatedly forced down, apparently by an automatic system receiving incorrect sensor readings.The information from the flight data recorder, contained in a preliminary report prepared by Indonesian crash investigators and released on Wednesday, documents a fatal tug of war between man and machine, with the plane’s nose forced dangerously downward over two dozen times during the 11-minute flight.

The pilots managed to pull the nose back up over and over until finally losing control, leaving the plane, Lion Air Flight 610, to plummet into the ocean at 450 miles per hour, killing all 189 people on board."

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/27/world/asia/indonesia-lion-air-crash-.html



One illustration of the "Automatic anti-stall system" correction and the subsequent pilots reversals is telling. 30+ system nose dives and 35+ pilot reversals in 5 minutes, or every 10seconds, tell of the struggle the pilots faced. Not much thinking or searching through the onboard help manuals.



An image of the last 5 minute log of the system and pilots actions.

The BLUE arrows indicate the untrained and "highly likely" unaware of the Boeing 737Max type pilots, SOP "pull ups".

The RED arrows indicate the Boing designed, installed, maintained "Automatic anti-stall system", "push the nose down" inputs

Indonesian investigators have said the Lion Air plane that crashed last month killing 189 people was not airworthy and should have been grounded.


The Boeing 737 Max plane crashed into the Java Sea shortly after departing from Jakarta on 29 October.

A preliminary report has found technical problems had been reported on previous flights.

The 737 Max is a new version of Boeing's original 737 and has become its fastest selling plane.

The preliminary report details what is known by authorities about the short time the plane was in the air, but investigators said it did not give a definitive cause for the accident.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-46121127

A very important initiative and very good strategy to avoid the disaster thank god.

The more I read about this 737-Max accident the more I believe the crew were actively trying to diagnose the root cause of the UAS fault with passengers on board. They should have just stuck to the procedures and set the Stab to cut-out, called an emergency and returned.

It should have had an unscheduled test flight to find the problem rather than risk passenger lives.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Indonesian investigators have said the Lion Air plane that crashed last month killing 189 people was not airworthy and should have been grounded.

First mistake.

Originally Posted by Troy

They should have just stuck to the procedures and set the Stab to cut-out, called an emergency and returned.

Second mistake.

More than twice the drink driving limit. I know modern planes almost fly themselves but that is taking the piss. I reckon he's heading for chokey.

November 29 2018

A Japanese pilot who admitted being almost nine times the alcohol limit shortly before a flight from Heathrow Airport is due to be sentenced.

Drunk first officer Katsutoshi Jitsukawa, 42, was arrested at the airport after failing a breath test just 50 minutes before Japan Airlines (JAL) flight JL44 to Tokyo was due to take off with him in the cockpit.

The flight was operated by a Boeing 777 aircraft which holds up to 244 passengers.

A Metropolitan Police spokesman said Jitsukawa pleaded guilty to exceeding the alcohol limit at Uxbridge Magistrates’ Court on Thursday, November 1.

He is due to be sentenced at Isleworth Crown Court on Thursday afternoon.

Tests revealed he had 189mg of alcohol per 100ml of blood in his system, almost nine times the 20mg limit for a pilot.

The drink-drive limit in England, Wales and Northern Ireland is 80mg.

JAL issued an apology and pledged to “implement immediate actions to prevent any future occurrence”, adding that “safety remains our utmost priority”.


https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...-37576921.html

Explains this:

JAL raided over pilot's heavy drinking before flight from London

Nov. 27 03:29 pm JST 23 Comments


TOKYO

The transport ministry on Tuesday conducted an on-site inspection of Japan Airlines Co after one of its pilots was arrested in Britain for heavy drinking before a London-Tokyo flight late last month.

Through the inspection at the company's Tokyo headquarters and other offices through Thursday, the ministry is expected to confirm measures JAL outlined in a report submitted earlier to prevent a similar incident and details of the misconduct.

https://japantoday.com/category/nati...ht-from-london

so who gets the blame,compensation for the 198 people that died as a result OF?

Originally Posted by headhunter

so who gets the blame,compensation for the 198 people that died as a result OF?

Lion Air have already paid out $100K per passenger.

Anything else is down to litigation. There is already a case against Boeing filed in a Florida court, but there could be jurisdictional issues.

The final report will apportion blame, if any. That's when the lawyers start rubbing their hands together. Could be a year away.

Originally Posted by Troy

They should have just stuck to the procedures and set the Stab to cut-out, called an emergency and returned.

The pilots presumably were told the problem had been fixed. I imagine they trust the tech guys.

The first important question is who signed off the aircraft was airworthy and what testing of the replacement parts were performed. I presume there is a checklist of the replaced part and any systems connected to it. The second is had they received and cross-training on the 737 MAX aircraft. The third is was any reference to the new system method of disconnection highlighted by the tech guy, who should have known the possible stability consequences, of the previous days planes tech failure.

Or are you suggesting the pilots are in a position to question the tech guys authority to sign off on a planes airworthiness? That they can demand a test flight prior to allowing passengers on-board?

I imagine many planes fly with noted problems and appointments for a "service" every day.

Originally Posted by OhOh

The pilots presumably were told the problem had been fixed. I imagine they trust the tech guys.

The first important question is who signed off the aircraft was airworthy and what testing of the replacement parts were performed. I presume there is a checklist of the replaced part and any systems connected to it. The second is had they received and cross-training on the 737 MAX aircraft. The third is was any reference to the new system method of disconnection highlighted by the tech guy, who should have known the possible stability consequences, of the previous days planes tech failure.

Or are you suggesting the pilots are in a position to question the tech guys authority to sign off on a planes airworthiness? That they can demand a test flight prior to allowing passengers on-board?

I imagine many planes fly with noted problems and appointments for a "service" every day.

The obvious two questions are:

a) Was the aircraft in the exact same state for its last flight as it was for the penultimate one.
b) Why were the pilots on the penultimate flight able to get it to its destination while the pilots of the last one ended up in Davy Jones Locker.

Terrified passengers watch their jet engine falling apart on takeoff (VIDEOS)
1 Dec 2018Dozens of passengers of a Frontier Airlines flight from Las Vegas to Florida have suffered probably the most chilling 15 minutes of their lives, after an engine on their jet was partially torn apart, forcing an emergency landing.

A section of the jet engine cowling was torn apart after it came loose during Frontier Flight 260’s takeoff in Nevada Friday morning, prompting shocked passengers to “jump up screaming.” Footage of the incident, taken by several people on board the Airbus 320, shows a shredded engine cover hanging on by the last threads to the rest of the unit.



The flight crew immediately requested a return to Las Vegas McCarran International Airport and were allowed to do so at 7:27 am, some 15 minutes after takeoff. Despite the scare, all 166 passengers and six crew members made it back safe. “The engine continued to operate normally and the aircraft, an Airbus 320, landed safely,” the airline reassured its customers.

To save face and somehow compensate travelers for their chilling experience, the company offered them a full refund and a $500 voucher for a future Frontier flight. The airline also transferred passengers onto other airlines so they could get to Florida within a reasonable amount of time. The incident is now being investigated by the Federal Aviation Administration.

https://www.rt.com/usa/445296-fronti...ine-emergency/

That'll teach him.

Japan Airlines pilot almost 10 times over alcohol limit jailed for 10 months
Posted Fri at 1:46am


A Japan Airlines pilot who reported for a London-to-Tokyo flight almost 10 times over the alcohol limit has been sentenced to 10 months in prison.

<snip>

Tests found the 42-year-old first officer had 189 milligrams of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood in his system, almost 10 times the 20 milligrams limit for a pilot.


The limit for car drivers in Britain is 80 milligrams.


https://www.xxx.xxx.xx/news/2018-11-...light/10570088

Southwest fits all its Boeing 737 MAX planes with new safety device to avoid a repeat of the Lion Air crash that killed 189 people


Southwest Airlines is adding a new safety device to its fleet of Boeing 737 Max planes to avoid an incident like the Lion Air crash which killed 189 people in October.


Southwest confirmed to aviation publication The Air Current that it will activate new Angle of Attack (AOA) indicators on its planes which will warn if the sensors are giving incorrect data.

The airline said in a statement that the new measure "will provide a valuable supplemental cross-check in the event there is an erroneous AOA signal present."

The indicator is an optional additional check on the aircraft's AOA system, which senses the plane's angle and pushes the nose of the aircraft down if it is pointing too high. The system is design to prevent the plane from stalling.

However, if the system malfunctions it can push the nose down too far, forcing it into a dangerous dive which pilots may struggle to reverse.


While Southwest did not mention the fatal Lion Air crash, Indonesian investigators have said that a fault with the AOA system in the brand new Boeing 737 Max 8 may have been why the pilot was left wrestling with the controls as the plane began to speed towards the sea.

They said, however, that it is "too early to conclude" whether this issue with the system contributed to the crash.

According to video and photo footage reviewed by The Current Air, Lion Air's planes do not have the AOA indicators installed.

US aviation groups, including the Federal Aviation Authority, say that Boeing didn't tell them about new sensors in the automated anti-stall system that were added to their 737 MAX aircraft.

Boeing issued a warning for its 737 MAX 8 and 737 MAX 9 airliners after the crash, and the US Government issued an emergency airworthiness directive.


Southwest pilots were informed of the change this week, The Air Current reported. The change will begin with brand new planes from Boeing, which will come with the AOA device already installed, The Air Current said.

Southwest is also expected to fit its existing 737 MAX planes with the device, according to the report.

Lion Air crash: Southwest adds safety device to planes to avoid repeat - Business Insider

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Southwest Airlines is adding a new safety device to its fleet of Boeing 737 Max planes to avoid an incident like the Lion Air crash which killed 189 people in October.

One hopes the pilots are trained how to use this new "device".

China Eastern expands fleet with next-generation Airbus





'
China Eastern expands fleet with next-generation Airbus

By Wang Ying in Shanghai | China Daily | Updated: 2018-12-01 14:11

The first A350-900 aircraft is delivered to China Eastern Airlines on Friday at the Shanghai Hongqiao International Airport.

YIN LIQIN/CHINA NEWS SERVICE

"China Eastern Airlines took delivery of its first A350-900 airplane at the Shanghai Hongqiao International Airport on Friday, in its latest bid to capture flyers in the premium long-haul intercontinental flight market.

China Eastern is set to receive two A350-900 aircraft in 2018, with 18 more scheduled for 2022, according to Liu Shaoyong, chairman of China Eastern. The delivery takes the size of China Eastern's fleet up to 700 aircraft.

"China Eastern carries more than 400,000 passengers across the world on a daily basis, and every year takes more than 120 million air travellers to 1,074 destinations in 174 nations and regions. All these safe and sound trips cannot be made without quality aircraft and engines," said Liu.

The introduction of the new model is also a response by the Shanghai-based airline to meet the exacting demands of today's passengers."

China Eastern expands fleet with next-generation Airbus - Chinadaily.com.cn

They will have chinky engineers crawling all over that working out what they can copy.

I suspect the deal also includes assembly in China at some point. They already "build" Boeings.