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  1. #26
    กงเกวียนกำเกวียน HuangLao's Avatar
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    ISIS = CIA


  2. #27
    Thailand Expat helge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beachbound View Post
    Russias meddling in the Syrian conflict probably has a lot to do with this attack.
    "ISIS-K has been fixated on Russia for the last two years," he said.

    "The group accuses the Kremlin of having Muslim blood on its hands and refers to Moscow's interventions in Afghanistan, Chechnya and Syria," the analyst said.

    The FSB said early this month that it had killed an "unknown number" of IS fighters planning a terrorist attack on a synagogue in Moscow.

    Moskva er blevet angrebet, og Islamisk Stat hævder at stå bag. Men hvad har IS med Rusland at gøre? | Udland | DR

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by taxexile View Post
    that was then. you, like your irish, the mohammedans and of course our coloured brethren, seem obsessed with events that happened centuries ago, much like expecting those who never owned slaves to pay reparations to those who were never slaves, and demanding in the high dudgeon of perceived entitlement, that we should forever flagellate ourselves over events that we had no control over.

    move on you miserable old windbag. like the above mentioned malcontents, you cant see beyond your anger and hatred.
    for how many more centuries are you going to bang your fists.

    there is a life to be lived. live it.
    Life is far too serious to be met with anything less than vengeance. Happiness and self indulgence are mere distractions. I was testing Apples dictation to see if it would transcribe vulgar expressions…it does!

  4. #29
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    hallelujah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuangLao View Post
    ISIS = CIA

    Fucking hell, Jeff

    I normally like your alternative view

    But this is just really fucking stupid and playing into the hands of the MAGA idiots


  5. #30
    Thailand Expat helge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hallelujah View Post
    But this is just really fucking stupid and playing into the hands of the MAGA idiots
    It's an ugly thought, but.....

    A revealing light on how we got here has now been shone by a recently declassified secret US intelligence report, written in August 2012, which uncannily predicts – and effectively welcomes – the prospect of a “Salafist principality” in eastern Syria and an al-Qaida-controlled Islamic state in Syria and Iraq. In stark contrast to western claims at the time, the Defense Intelligence Agency document identifies al-Qaida in Iraq (which became Isis) and fellow Salafists as the “major forces driving the insurgency in Syria” – and states that “western countries, the Gulf states and Turkey” were supporting the opposition’s efforts to take control of eastern Syria.
    Raising the “possibility of establishing a declared or undeclared Salafist principality”, the Pentagon report goes on, “this is exactly what the supporting powers to the opposition want, in order to isolate the Syrian regime, which is considered the strategic depth of the Shia expansion (Iraq and Iran)”.
    Now the truth emerges: how the US fuelled the rise of Isis in Syria and Iraq | Seumas Milne | The Guardian

    Searched 'ISIS' and 'CIA' and I can't even be bothered to read the article.

    You tend to believe in the "good" in people, Hal.


    Unfortunately is mostly shit, lies, greed and evil


    (12 years old)

  6. #31
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    Bonecollector's Avatar
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    'Once again, young men who don’t know each other die for old men who do'.

  7. #32
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    Putin vows retribution for ‘barbaric’ Moscow attack

    Moscow, Russia – Russian President Vladimir Putin on Saturday called an attack on a concert hall that killed more than 100 a “barbaric terrorist act” and vowed harsh retribution to all those involved.


    In a televised address, Putin said all four gunmen had been arrested before they had a chance to cross the border into Ukraine.


    “I am speaking to you today in connection with the bloody, barbaric terrorist act, the victims of which were dozens of innocent, peaceful people,” Putin said in his first public remarks since the attack.


    “All four perpetrators of the terrorist attack who shot and killed people have been detained. They were travelling towards Ukraine where, according to preliminary information, they had a window to cross the border,” the Kremlin leader said.

    Russia’s FSB security service said earlier the assailants had been “in contact” with people in Ukraine as they tried to flee the country.


    At least 115 people were killed by armed gunmen at the Crocus City Hall in a suburb on the northern edge of Moscow on Friday. The concert hall was set ablaze. The attack has been claimed by the Islamic State group but Russian authorities have not mentioned this.


    “Terrorists, murderers, non-humans will face the unenviable fate of retribution and oblivion,” said Putin, who declared Sunday a day of national mourning across Russia.

    Putin vows retribution for 'barbaric' Moscow attack | Thai PBS World : The latest Thai news in English, News Headlines, World News and News Broadcasts in both Thai and English. We bring Thailand to the world

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by misskit View Post


    Putin said all four gunmen had been arrested before they had a chance to cross the border into Ukraine.

    “They were travelling towards Ukraine where, according to preliminary information, they had a window to cross the border,” the Kremlin leader said.

    Russia’s FSB security service said earlier the assailants had been “in contact” with people in Ukraine as they tried to flee the country.
    Of course! A Kremlin spokesman said that all the gunman were wearing
    I Ukraine T-shirts.

  9. #34
    Thailand Expat Pragmatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mendip View Post
    I have to say that I find it hard to feel much sympathy for Russian civilians killed in this atrocity
    Me too. But from what the papers say 'the Russians were informed /tipped off by US and British intelligence weeks ago about an possible attack but their government failed to act. May be there's a reason why they didn't?

    Moscow attack: Did Russia ignore US '''extremist''' attacks warning?
    Last edited by Pragmatic; 24-03-2024 at 08:58 AM.

  10. #35
    Thailand Expat helge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mendip View Post
    I have to say that I find it hard to feel much sympathy for Russian civilians killed in this atrocity, but fully accept that this is probably unfair.

    How much sympathy is shown by Russians for the tens of thousands of Ukranian civilian deaths while going about their daily business, caused by their special operation, now finally called a war?

    Of course the average Russian civilian has no influence and can do nothing about their leadership, but even so, can't help the way I feel about it.
    Perhaps it's human to feel like you do.

    I reckon that some of the russians "getting on with their business" feel exactly for the ukrainians, as you do for the russians.

    "They had it coming"

    Yes it's irrational

  11. #36
    Thailand Expat OhOh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pragmatic View Post
    'the Russians were informed /tipped off by US and British intelligence weeks ago about an possible attack but their government failed to act.
    A link to what the US/UK "detailed information" was conveyed to the Russians, by whome and too whom, would support your allegation.

  12. #37
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    Did Russia ignore US 'extremist' attacks warning?

    There are always questions after any attack as to why it was not stopped or detected. But the Moscow attack raises particularly difficult issues for Vladimir Putin at a time of international tension and mistrust. And much of that comes because of a warning from Washington.


    The 7 March warning from the US to its own citizens was unusually specific. It talked of reports that "extremists" had "imminent plans to target large gatherings in Moscow" and specifically mentioned concerts. It advised Americans in the city to avoid large gatherings over the coming 48 hours.

    The timing may not quite match, but other details do tally closely with events on 22 March. It seems clear Washington had some kind of intelligence and that it related to Islamic State (IS) - the group that has issued a statement saying it was behind the Moscow attack.


    As well as the public warning to its own citizens, the US also said it had communicated with the Russian government directly.


    "The US government also shared this information with Russian authorities in accordance with its long-standing 'duty to warn' policy," a US official said in a statement after the attack.

    There are channels through which intelligence is shared between countries - even those that are not allies - especially when it relates to possible attacks on civilians.


    But the problem is that Moscow dismissed the warnings.


    Three days before the attack, Russian President Vladimir Putin addressed the board of Russia's Federal Security Service (FSB), whose job is to defend the country. The top priority, he told the assembled leaders of the security service, was to support what he called the special military operation - the official phrase for the full-scale invasion of Ukraine.


    He claimed that Ukraine had switched to what he called "terrorist tactics". He also spoke directly to what he said were "provocative statements" from the West about potential attacks within Russia. He said the warnings "resemble outright blackmail and the intention to intimidate and destabilise our society".

    That suggests that the mistrust between the US and Russia meant Moscow may not have wanted to listen and instead saw the warnings as part of an attempt to threaten Russia, linked to the Ukraine conflict.


    We do not yet know the exact nature of the information the US possessed or passed or how clear it was. Intelligence can often be vague and hard to act on.


    But the US has a vast intelligence-gathering machine and watches IS closely. The branch suspected of the Moscow attack was also linked to one on US forces and civilians at Kabul airport in August 2021, as well as more recent deadly bombings in Iraq.


    But if the intelligence that was shared with Russia was credible and specific about IS, then the FSB and Mr Putin might appear to be on the back foot about why they did not take it more seriously.


    And if so, it may be easier for Moscow to relate the attack in some way to Ukraine in order to deflect blame and also build support for Russia's actions there, rather than acknowledge what they might have missed.

    https://www.msn.com/en-my/news/world...ng/ar-BB1kphZj

  13. #38
    Thailand Expat Pragmatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    A link to what the US/UK "detailed information" was conveyed to the Russians, by whome and too whom, would support your allegation.
    I never mentioned "detailed information''. That's your made up quote. Try reading the link I posted. Moscow attack: Did Russia ignore US '''extremist''' attacks warning?

    Death Toll Rises to 133 in Moscow Concert Hall Attack


    Last edited by Pragmatic; 24-03-2024 at 03:02 PM.

  14. #39
    Hangin' Around cyrille's Avatar
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    Don't take it personally.

    He regularly uses quotation marks when, in fact, he's just made something up.

  15. #40
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    hallelujah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by helge View Post
    It's an ugly thought, but.....



    Now the truth emerges: how the US fuelled the rise of Isis in Syria and Iraq | Seumas Milne | The Guardian

    Searched 'ISIS' and 'CIA' and I can't even be bothered to read the article.

    You tend to believe in the "good" in people, Hal.


    Unfortunately is mostly shit, lies, greed and evil


    (12 years old)
    Realpolitik innit and obviously thought as a viable option in 2012.

    Before we knew what we know now.

    However, ISIS are not the CIA.

    Unless you are a conspiracy obsessed MAGA freak on Twitter, of course. *

    And why are seemingly all the women in this bunch cat ladies?

    Scary people.

    * Or Putin.

  16. #41
    Making people dance. :-)
    Edmond's Avatar
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    Ukraine, me arse.


    More chance that the Allahu Snack Bar was out of goat heads.

  17. #42
    Thailand Expat helge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hallelujah View Post
    However, ISIS are not the CIA.
    Ofcourse not

    Doubtful that ISIS could fill the CIA shoes as Merchant of Death, Traveller in Torture and Mastermind of Coup d'Etats.

    But they are both nasty and equal un-democratic, and the world would be a better place without them.

    But do continue your whitewashing.


  18. #43
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    hallelujah's Avatar
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    I see they're being well taken care of by the Russian authorities.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...pects-torture/

    A barrage of videos had emerged of Russian security agents torturing the suspects — including forcing one to chew on a piece of his own ear that had been cut off, while another was stripped half-naked and subjected to electric shocks with wires attached to his genitals.

    Ouch.

  19. #44
    Thailand Expat DrWilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hallelujah View Post
    I see they're being well taken care of by the Russian authorities.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...pects-torture/

    A barrage of videos had emerged of Russian security agents torturing the suspects — including forcing one to chew on a piece of his own ear that had been cut off, while another was stripped half-naked and subjected to electric shocks with wires attached to his genitals.

    Ouch.
    I know it’s barbaric but I’m finding it hard to feel any empathy.

  20. #45
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    hallelujah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrWilly View Post
    I know it’s barbaric but I’m finding it hard to feel any empathy.
    Yeah, similar thoughts myself.

    What is interesting is that instead of trying to cover up or deny the torture (a.g, Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo) they're going out of their way to make it public.

    And the green light to do so will obviously have come from the very top...

  21. #46
    Thailand Expat helge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hallelujah View Post
    I see they're being well taken care of by the Russian authorities.
    Back in the Soviet days, they were more human.

    Plane highjackers and such were shot on the spot.

    Ouch indeed

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by helge View Post
    Back in the Soviet days, they were more human.

    Plane highjackers and such were shot on the spot.

    Ouch indeed
    If they could afford the bullets...

  23. #48
    Thailand Expat helge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hallelujah View Post
    If they could afford the bullets...

    ????....

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by helge View Post
    ????....
    The quip should be self explanatory really, helge, despite your anti-US/pro Russia leanings.

    Bullets cost money.

    The Soviet Union was poor.

    Much cheaper and just as effective to see someone off with the back of a shovel or throw them off a roof.

  25. #50
    Thailand Expat helge's Avatar
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    Cleaned up, eh ?
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    You are ready to confess to anything: Russia's use of torture against terror suspects criticised


    Confessions made under torture are not necessarily true, according to Amnesty International and Dignity.







    The press was present in large numbers when four bruised terror suspects were presented for questioning in Moscow on Sunday. (Photo: © Shamil Zhumatov/Reuters/Ritzau Scanpix)



    OF
    Laura Kirkebæk-Johansson

    Kristian Magnus Damsgaard Jensen

    Nicolai Jørgen Jørgensen
    Man er klar til at tilsta hvad som helst: Ruslands brug af tortur mod terrormistaenkte kritiseres | Udland | DR


    An army of members of the press stood by when four men suspected of being behind the terror attack in Moscow were ushered into court for questioning on Sunday evening.

    As the cameras flashed away, the four men behind the glass panes could be seen with large swelling, wounds and bruises on their faces.

    One of them had a bandage around his ear. In a video allegedly leaked by the Russian security services, he can be seen having parts of his ear cut off and stuffed in his mouth during his arrest.

    READ MORE:Alleged perpetrators appeared bruised in court: 'There has been no hiding the fact that they have been tortured'

    Another image online showed one of the suspects lying on the floor with his pants down around his ankles and wires attached to his genitals.

    Only three of the men went into court themselves. The fourth, a 19-year-old man, was taken into a wheelchair and was only partially conscious.

    DR has chosen to blur the faces of the four men, as they have not yet been sentenced.







    The 19-year-old floated in and out of consciousness. (Photo: © Shamil Zhumatov/Reuters/Ritzau Scanpix)


    Natalia Prilutskaya is a Russia researcher at Amnesty International. She has no doubt that the four suspects have been tortured and believes that Russia has "crossed a red line".

    "In the past, torture was denied or torture victims hid and hid away. But now the Russian authorities have almost made a parade out of it. This is a very worrying sign for the Russian justice system," she told P1 Morgen.

    The same is the opinion of Jens Modvig, chief physician at the Danish Institute Against Torture, Dignity, and former chairman of the UN Committee against Torture.

    "You actually get the impression that the Russian state is interested in exposing this brutal treatment that they have apparently been subjected to. Nothing has been done to hide it, he says.

    The Kremlin declined to answer questions about whether the men had been tortured.


    'In every way unacceptabel'


    The four terror suspects, aged between 19 and 32, are all from the Central Asian country of Tajikistan.

    They were apprehended 400 kilometres southwest of Moscow on Saturday and are accused of entering a concert hall and killing at least 139 people on Friday night. An attack for which a branch of the Islamic State has claimed responsibility.

    READ ALSO:Putin now blames 'radical Islamists' for mass shooting in Moscow - but points again to Ukraine

    Prilutskaya said Amnesty International called for a full investigation into the "horrific attack in Moscow" and for all those responsible to be brought to justice.

    "But we also call for justice and fair trials for the suspects," she said.

    "What we saw a few days ago does not match international standards for a fair trial. Torture is completely prohibited under international law, and this way of treating suspects is unacceptable in every way.

    Russia is a signatory to the UN Convention against Torture, which prohibits all forms of torture, whatever the circumstances.






    One of the suspects appeared to be missing his right ear. Videos online show that he allegedly had it cut off and stuffed in his mouth during arrest. (Photo: © Shamil Zhumatov/Reuters/Ritzau Scanpix)

    Ready to confess to anything


    Two of the men pleaded guilty in court. But a confession that has come to light under torture is of little use, says Jens Modvig from Dignity.

    "On the one hand, the pain and loss of control is so excruciating that you will do and say anything to make it stop," he says.

    - In addition, you are under torture in such an extreme state of stress that your perception of reality is often damaged, so you cannot think rationally, and may not even know what is true and false.

    READ TOO:Russia has experienced bloody attacks for decades - get an overview here

    In light of the treatment the suspects appear to have been subjected to, there is good reason to believe that the confessions were provoked by torture, according to Jens Modvig.

    "Any evidence or self-incriminating statements made under torture are not acceptable within international standards of a fair trial," said Natalia Prilutskaya of Amnesty International.






    The press was only allowed to attend for a short time before the doors to the interrogation were closed. Natalia Prilutskaya fears that the trial will also be held behind closed doors. "There is very little chance that the whole truth behind this horrific attack will come out," she says. (Photo: © SHAMIL ZHUMATOV, Ritzau Scanpix)

    Relatives deserve answers


    Those who have lost loved ones in the attack on the Moscow concert hall deserve a fair trial, Natalia Prilutskaya said.

    "All the victims of this horrific attack deserve to know what happened and who was behind it – and that the real perpetrators are being brought to justice," she said.

    If the case is not investigated, there is a risk that similar attacks could happen again, she believes.

    READ TOO:France is on high alert: Olympics are a dream goal for Islamic State, says terrorism researcher

    But why do the Russians continue to use torture - and show it to the world press - if you do not necessarily get true confessions out of it?

    Jens Modvig believes that the regime in Russia would like to present itself as brutal towards people who oppose the state.

    "It can be a spectacle for others that you are treated so harshly if you do something that the state is not interested in," he said.




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