Prigozhin downed Wagner's Gotterdamerung

**david44** · 24-08-2023, 04:44 AM

Wagner chief Prigozhin 'killed' as 10 die in plane crash near Moscow - latest
Wagner mercenary chief Yevgeny Prigozhin is thought to be among 10 people killed in a plane crash in Russia.

Wagner chief Prigozhin and co-founder ‘killed’ in Russia plane crash as Putin at concert - Ukraine war LIVE | The Independent

**david44** · 24-08-2023, 04:45 AM

Wagner mercenary chief Yevgeny Prigozhin is thought to be among 10 people killed in a plane crash in Russia.
Footage shows the flaming wreckage after a private jet came down near Moscow on Wednesday evening.

The plane carrying three pilots and seven passengers was en route from Moscow to St. Petersburg, according to officials cited by Russia's state news agency Tass.

Prigozhin was on the passenger list for the plane, but it wasn't immediately clear if he was on board.
His fate has been the subject of intense speculation ever since he mounted a short-lived mutiny against Russia's military leadership in late June.

The Kremlin said the founder of the Wagner private military company, which fought alongside Russia's regular army in Ukraine, would be exiled to Belarus.
But the mercenary chief has since reportedly popped up in Russia, leading to further questions about his future.

As the news about the crash was breaking, Russian President Vladimir Putin spoke at an event commemorating the Battle of Kursk, hailing the heroes of Russia's "the special military operation" in Ukraine.

**Norton** · 24-08-2023, 04:53 AM

Lesson...fuck with Vlad you get dead. Only a matter of time.

**DrWilly** · 24-08-2023, 09:44 AM

What a surprise. Nobody could have predicted that.

**VocalNeal** · 24-08-2023, 10:21 AM

Thought to be... If he is clever he will be on a desert island somewhere.

**david44** · 24-08-2023, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by VocalNeal

Thought to be... If he is clever he will be on a desert island somewhere.

Yep not impossible he was a pretty cunning Khvnt to leap from suasage man to coup attempt

He may have done a Reggie Perrin/ John Stonehouse

Of course less Minted crimis first pick Naklua

**McCully** · 24-08-2023, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by david44

Prigozhin was on the passenger list for the plane, but it wasn't immediately clear if he was on board.

fell out the window perhaps?

**david44** · 24-08-2023, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by VocalNeal

on a desert island somewhere

Phuket Bound

and 'Gagged"

check the 9 0cock moose

**PlanK** · 25-08-2023, 05:58 AM

He fell from a very high window.
Good to see KGB keeping up traditions.

**misskit** · 25-08-2023, 07:16 AM

Was Prigozhin already dead? Mystery over Wagner plane crash bodies’ ‘missing heads’

EXCLUSIVE: An unnamed source has claimed that "several" of the bodies discovered lack heads, adding an eerie and perplexing layer to the incident.

An alleged investigator who was present at the scene of the plane crash involving Wagner Group's chief Prigozhin has leaked distressing information about the state of the corpses found at the crash site.

The unnamed source claimed that "several" of the bodies discovered lacked heads.

Video footage captured shortly after the crash depicts a scene of chaos and devastation, with emergency responders and authorities on site attempting to manage the aftermath.

The leaked details, if confirmed, could potentially signal a deliberate act or even a sinister element in the tragedy.

Official authorities have not yet commented on the leaked information.

In a note sent to Express.co.uk, Dr Yuri Felshtinsky, professor at Boston University and also author of Blowing up Russia: Terror from Within with Alexander Litvinenko, said: "Assuming that Prigozhin was on the Embraer private jet that crashed, will his body ever be found?

"As with all FSB operations, there is an enormous amount of confusion and misinformation. But a few things stand out. Taking down a plane in the heart Russia smacks of desperation rather than authority.

"If Putin and Kremlin were truly in charge, Prigozhin would have vanished into thin air like Washington Post journalist Jamal Khashoggi, or indeed, the founder of The Wagner Group Dmitry Utkin who as far as we know hasn't been seen alive since 2016.

"Yet, like a bad penny, Utkin suddenly appears dead together on the same plane with his chum Prigozhin in a miracle stroke of luck. It is unlikely that Prigozhin is still alive, but, equally it is unlikely that any of the disinformation coming Russia is reliable.

"It is likely meant to distract us with endless speculation about Prigozhin rather than consider Putin's role in Russia."

Commenting on the reports claiming Prigozhin could have been killed before boarding the plane, Dr Felshtinsky added: "The simple fact is that, at this moment in time, all we have are pictures of an aeroplane in flames, of apparently unidentifiable bodies, a list of 10 names including Prigozhin’s, and a message from a Russian official that Prigozhin’s plane went down.

"They may well all be connected. But who knows. When dealing with the Russian government, often things are not as they seem at first sight. After the march on Moscow, the Kremlin won’t want more egg on their face, however. It does seem clear that Prigozhin himself is not going to come back to tell the tale."

Was Prigozhin already dead? Mystery over Wagner plane crash bodies’ ‘missing heads’ | World | News | Express.co.uk

**thailazer** · 25-08-2023, 08:05 PM

A sinister element? So that's what Putin puts on his business card.

**OhOh** · 26-08-2023, 10:28 AM

AUGUST 25, 2023 BY M. K. BHADRAKUMAR

Who’s afraid of Prigozhin and Wagner?

"There has been an avalanche of western media reports within minutes or hours of the ghastly death on Wednesday of the head of the Wagner organisation of Russian military contractors, Yevgeny Prigozhin, which pointed the accusing finger at President Vladimir Putin as the perpetrator.

It is almost as if a button was pressed at some unknown command centre to launch a new narrative to demonise Putin for serving the cold dish of revenge to Prigozhin, to borrow the CIA director William Burns’ recent words, for staging a failed coup in Russia. No one cared to produce empirical evidence.

“Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth” — the law of propaganda is often attributed to the Nazi leader Joseph Goebbels who understood the power of repeating falsehoods. It is now the West’s compass to “erase” Russia.

True, Putin had every reason to be annoyed with Prigozhin — a “stab in the back,” as he put it — when the nation was waging an existential war against sworn enemies who seek the dismemberment of Russia. But three considerations discredit the hypothesis of Putin’s involvement.

First, why such a crude method reminiscent of the murder of the charismatic Iranian general Qasem Suleimani, the spearhead of Tehran’s ‘Axis of Resistance’ against America, by former US president Donald Trump?

In his celebrated 1827 essay titled On Murder Considered as one of the Fine Arts, Thomas De Quincey wrote, “Everything in this world has two handles. Murder, for instance, may be laid hold of by its moral handle… and that, I confess, is its weak side; or it may also be treated aesthetically, as the Germans call it, that is, in relation to good taste.” The aesthetic of Prigozhin’s murder is, simply put, the least appealing by the principle of murder connoisseurship if the motivation were revenge .

Second, Prigozhin was a dead man walking for staging such an idiotic act, after his security cover was withdrawn by the state. Imagine ex-president Barack Obama without secret service protection after the murder of Osama bin Laden — or Mike Pompeo and Trump walking around without security after murdering Soleimani.

But Putin made it clear that Wagner still would have a future and the nation will remember its role in the Ukraine war. Putin even invited Prigozhin to a Kremlin meeting. Arguably, Putin’s first remarks on Prigozhin’s death betray a trace of pity. (here and here)

Putin said, “I’ve known Prigozhin for a very long time, since the early 1990s. He was a man of no easy fate. He made some serious mistakes in his life, but he also achieved the needed results – both for himself and, when I asked him, for the common cause. The way it was in recent months.”

“As far as I know, he returned from Africa only yesterday. He met with some officials here. He worked not only in our country – and he worked successfully, but also abroad, especially in Africa. There, he dealt with oil, gas, precious metals and stones,” Putin added.

In the excessive zeal to focus on Prigozhin’s murder to demonise Putin, what is overlooked is that whoever choreographed the crime also ensured that Wagner’s entire command structure has been eliminated. Bye, bye, Africa!

There isn’t going to be anyone in the foreseeable future to challenge the hegemony of the French Legion in the Sahel or match the vast network of 29 bases under Pentagon’s Africa Command spread across the continent from Djibouti in the north to Botswana in the south. Put differently, the long arm of Russia’s “smart power” has been chopped off with one single swing of the blade. Who stands to gain?

Third, Prigozhin’s murder was staged on a special day that in a historical perspective, must be counted as the finest hour of Russian diplomacy ever since the disintegration of the former Soviet Union. The reality of “a new starting point for BRICS” — as Chinese President Xi Jinping stated — is yet to sink in fully, but what is beyond doubt is that Russia is walking away as the winner.

Make no mistake that the BRICS unity held firm and rubbished all western prognosis; BRICS expansion means that the issue of a single settlement currency is on the table, and the international financial system is not going to be the same again; de-dollarisation is knocking at the gates; a new global trading system is taking shape which renders obsolete the exploitative 4-century old western regime geared to transfer wealth to the rich countries; BRICS has graduated, finally, from an informal club to an institution that will eclipse the G7.

The host country South Africa delivered big-time for the Russian and Chinese agenda of multipolarity. The joint statement issued by South Africa and China and the induction of Ethiopia (where the West tried to stage a regime change) as BRICS member underscore the emerging alignment in Africa. Doesn’t all that add up to something?

And, above all, the big message coming out of Johannesburg is that with all the king’s horses and all the king’s men, the Biden administration has failed miserably to “isolate” Russia — it is there writ large in the resplendent glow of Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov’s effulgent smile. Russia is capping its gains in the battlefields of Ukraine with an outstanding diplomatic victory by being on the right side of history alongside the global majority.

Isn’t it plain common sense that of all days, Putin would never have chosen Wednesday to act as spoiler when Russia’s prestige was soaring high in the international community? Again, the question arises: Who stands to gain?

The plain truth is, there could be any number of people who wanted to physically eliminate Prigozhin. Within Russia itself, Prigozhin had recruited hardened criminals undergoing prison sentence to fight in Ukraine and thereby get their sentence commuted. He deployed them without adequate military training, and over 10,000 of them reportedly got killed. There is a deep sense of revulsion within Russia in the matter.

Then there are the external enemies starting from France, which has been virtually evicted from the Sahel region, its playpen where it had a field day as the ex-colonial power until Prigozhin came and spoiled the party. France could barely hide its rancour toward Russia ever since then.

Meanwhile, the brewing crisis in Niger alerted the US that Prigozhin was on the prowl. The redoubtable acting secretary of state Victoria Nuland, who masterminded the 2014 coup in Ukraine, travelled to Niamey to plead with the coup leaders not to have any truck with Wagner.

However, Prigozhin reportedly had sneaked into the neighbouring country, Mali, where Wagner is well established, with a view to establish contact with Niger’s new rulers and offer the services of Wagner. Suffice to say, Prigozhin was threatening to do to the Pentagon what he earlier did to the French Legion in Sahel.

It is entirely conceivable that the Biden administration decided that enough was enough and Wagner must be decapitated. Of course, Prigozhin’s departure along with his core group of senior commanders will incalculably weaken Wagner.

Meanwhile, within Russia, the ruthless Uranian intelligence operates at different levels. The drone attacks on Moscow are being staged by saboteurs within Russia. And Ukraine too has a score to settle with Wagner, which is establishing itself in Belarus.

Without doubt, there is a congruence of interests between the Ukrainian intelligence and its western mentors to destroy Wagner and eliminate it from the geopolitical chessboard altogether."

Who’s afraid of Prigozhin and Wagner? - Indian Punchline

**david44** · 26-08-2023, 04:49 PM

OH DEAR YOU REALLY MUST BE HANSOMELY REWARDED TO PUSH SUCH TOSH

Originally Posted by OhOh

the ghastly death on Wednesday of the head of the Wagner organisation of Russian military contractors

SURE MANY ARE REJOICING ON 5 CONTINETS FROM USA AFRICA UK UKRAINE BELARUS AND NO DOUBT EVEN PUTIN AND HIS SOCALLED SPECIAL MILTARY OP

DE QUINCY'S EXPERTISE WAS OPIATES

Originally Posted by OhOh

what is beyond doubt is that Russia is walking away as the winner.

**Bob Mason** · 26-08-2023, 05:05 PM

If Putin was responsible for the death of Prigozhin, and the man is really dead, I would expect Putin to be assassinated before the end of October.

**aging one** · 26-08-2023, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by Bob Mason

If Putin was responsible for the death of Prigozhin, and the man is really dead, I would expect Putin to be assassinated before the end of October.

Do you know and are you friends with the poster backspin, better know as skidmark?

**OhOh** · 26-08-2023, 10:11 PM

Originally Posted by david44

Originally Posted by OhOh
what is beyond doubt is that Russia is walking away as the winner.

Where is your alleged post, by me, posted (Today, 10:28 AM)?

I cant find it at the link you have referenced, #12.

**david44** · 26-08-2023, 11:46 PM

Originally Posted by OhOh

Third, Prigozhin’s murder was staged on a special day that in a historical perspective, must be counted as the finest hour of Russian diplomacy ever since the disintegration of the former Soviet Union. The reality of “a new starting point for BRICS” — as Chinese President Xi Jinping stated — is yet to sink in fully, but what is beyond doubt is that Russia is walking away as the winner.

dont you even read the pooperganda you posted

you are forgiven no doubt blinded by russia, excess masturbation or the sheer the brlliance of snubelty or case 2 of Lulegionnairs disease

**DrWilly** · 27-08-2023, 10:35 AM

It is almost as if a button was pressed at some unknown command centre to launch a new narrative to demonise Putin for serving the cold dish of revenge to Prigozhin, to borrow the CIA director William Burns’ recent words, for staging a failed coup in Russia. No one cared to produce empirical evidence

It is entirely conceivable that the Biden administration decided that enough was enough and Wagner must be decapitated

So which is it ohoh? A heroic actor revenge by Putin or a dastardly plot by Biden? You can’t have it both ways.

**cyrille** · 27-08-2023, 11:01 AM

That lack of empirical [sic.] evidence problem only seems to cut one way for Indian Punchdrunk.

**Seekingasylum** · 27-08-2023, 11:14 AM

Somewhat amusingly, from my Sunday Times today, it seems that only a mere 2% of those polled in Russia think Putin was responsible for the pig Prighozin’s death.

It really is becoming a very tight race indeed. Who are the dumbest? Trumpanzee septic republicans, Brexiteer English wankers or Russian lumpen serfs.

Ahh, the human condition in all its glory. Idiocy is the lingua franca in our new Age of The Stupid.

Citing the Daily Express and some coon wog rag as references?

**OhOh** · 27-08-2023, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by david44

you are forgiven

My apologies. It was a late night.

Originally Posted by DrWilly

So which is it ohoh? A heroic actor revenge by Putin or a dastardly plot by Biden? You can’t have it both ways

Is that one of your "rules", that all shoud obey?

Can I not, oh dear.

Prigozhin downed Wagner's Gotterdamerung-too-early-say-jpg

“too early to say”

**DrWilly** · 27-08-2023, 01:24 PM

Ok, be like Trump. Break all the rules.

**helge** · 27-08-2023, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by Bob Mason

If Putin was responsible for the death of Prigozhin, and the man is really dead, I would expect Putin to be assassinated before the end of October.

Interesting

What would happen then ?

**bsnub** · 27-08-2023, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by helge

Interesting

What would happen then ?

A vatnik like yourself would vanish into the crowd.

**helge** · 27-08-2023, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by bsnub

A vatnik like yourself would vanish into the crowd.

What does that mean, Shovelboy ?

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