Why the discovery of a Chinese balloon in US skies is such a big deal

• Navy divers recovering Chinese balloon debris off Atlantic coast for investigation

Navy divers are now performing the “fairly easy” task of recovering the remnants of the Chinese spy balloon shot down over the Atlantic, as the entire Senate is set to be briefed on China next week.

The balloon was shot down by a F22 fighter jet over Myrtle Beach, SC, and landed in just 47 feet of water, which should make its recovery relatively easy, US officials said.

Cops in Horry County, where the balloon was shot down near, warned residents that “members of the US Military are coordinating to collect debris; however, fragments may make it to the coastline.”

Recovery ships are being used to scoop up the debris, which is spread out over 7 miles of ocean.

The Pentagon clearly wants to recover ever piece of the balloon it can, using the expertise of Navy divers to search the chilly waters, the New York Times reported.

Recovered debris will be provided to both intelligence officials and law-enforcement agencies for investigation, according to the Times.

“There are a number of US Navy and Coast Guard vessels establishing a security perimeter around the area where the balloon came to Earth,” the Department of Defense said in a statement.

A military official described the operation as “fairly easy” but did not provide a timeline for when it would be completed.

The Navy has deployed multiple ships, including the destroyer USS Oscar Austin, the cruiser USS Philippine Sea and the USS Carter Hall, an amphibious landing ship, to support the recovery efforts.

Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-NY) said Sunday that the full United States Senate will “receive a China briefing next week.

“The Department of Defense will brief us on the Office of Net Assessment’s (ONA) US-China overmatch study. This work by ONA is completed every few years and is intended to provide policymakers with details on how the US military stacks up against China,” he said in a press release.

“The parameters usually involve where we stand with respect to China on everything from surveillance capabilities, research and development, advance weapons systems, and other critical platforms that would allow for either side to have an upper hand in a toe to toe conflict.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/05/u...shot-down.html

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Originally Posted by misskit

Hardly news being 60 years ago and all.

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But apparently OK 60 years ago for the US to overfly a foreign sovereign country. Still pot and kettle.

Did the balloon post any short vids on TikTok? :chitown:

The question on my mind is, if indeed it is a spy platform, then why did the Chinese send it over the US? did they think it would go unnoticed? and if it was notice ?

IMO there is a lot more to this story. I just don't know what it is.

I think it just went adrift. Their crime was getting caught- I mean, like everyone doesn't spy on everyone else? just ask Angela Merkel.

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Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai

The question on my mind is, if indeed it is a spy platform, then why did the Chinese send it over the US? did they think it would go unnoticed?

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testing to see if it would work again

Chinese balloons flew over US three times during Trump administration

Balloons similar to the one that was shot down off the coast of South Carolina this weekend flew over the U.S. at least three times during the Trump administration, according to a senior U.S. defense official.

As Republicans spent the past few days criticizing the Biden administration over its response to the suspected Chinese spy balloon that flew across the country, an official revealed during a briefing on Saturday that the U.S. was aware of three other instances during the prior administration and one instance earlier in the Biden administration that such an apparatus “transited” the country.

Timeline: A Chinese spy balloon’s trip across the United States

Did you know that the USA has some spy balloons flying over- the USA? Goodness only knows where else.

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Originally Posted by S Landreth

testing to see if it would work again

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Testing it without the dayglow orange lens filters

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Originally Posted by S Landreth

Chinese balloons flew over US three times during Trump administration

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I thought those were Russian balloons. LOL
Attachment 97806

^ I was in Washington DC during a 4^th of July celebration and got a picture of it. One of many

https://i.ibb.co/kXhXtGD/everyone-hates-trump.jpg

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Originally Posted by sabang

Did you know that the USA has some spy balloons flying over- the USA? Goodness only knows where else.

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Don’t be silly. Those are weather balloons collecting data for NASA. The US has spy satellites that can count the hair on Kim Yo-jong upper lip. :)

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Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai

The question on my mind is, if indeed it is a spy platform, then why did the Chinese send it over the US? did they think it would go unnoticed? and if it was notice ?

IMO there is a lot more to this story. I just don't know what it is.

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The general consensus is that it was an attempt by the chinkies to embarrass the US after it announced it's putting a base in the Phillippines.

Now of course the whiny twats are all upset because the US shot it down.

:smileylaughing:

• White House wants to ‘exploit’ what it can recover from China balloon

White House national security officials on Monday said the Biden administration is working to recover the suspected Chinese surveillance balloon shot down over the Atlantic Ocean on Saturday.

National security adviser Jake Sullivan said recovering the balloon will take time but be beneficial “so that we can then exploit what we recover and learn even more than we have learned.”

He offered the remarks during an appearance as part of a panel at the U.S. Global Leadership Coalition summit.

Sullivan said the U.S. has been able to learn a good amount already because officials monitored the balloon when it traversed the U.S. before it was shot down.

National security spokesman John Kirby echoed those comments in a briefing on Monday, noting how valuable it will be to surveil the balloon.

“Our efforts to surveil this balloon and what we’re going to learn from the recovery will prove to be valuable,” he said.

“The time that we had to study this balloon over the course of a few days last week, we believe, was important and will give us a lot more clarity not only on the capabilities that these balloons have but what China is trying to do with them,” Kirby added.

He also said he would not discuss assessments of whether Chinese President Xi Jinping was aware of the balloon before it was revealed by the U.S.

“As you know, we are still in recovery mode on the balloon remnants itself both on the surface and under sea. And we expect we’ll learn more through that recovery effort,” he said.

The U.S military shot down the balloon on Saturday off the coast of South Carolina, days after it was first detected floating through U.S. airspace.

Biden faced a rash of criticism over the weekend, mostly from Republicans, who said he acted too slowly to shoot down the balloon. Reports separately have surfaced that at least three similar spy aircraft were spotted over the U.S. during former President Trump’s time in office.

Sullivan said on Monday’s panel that the Biden administration has come to understand that during the Trump administration, there were “multiple instances” of surveillance balloons.

He defended taking time to shoot down the balloon, saying the White House was waiting until it was over water to prevent any injuries or destruction of property. But he also sought to contrast the Biden decision to shoot down the balloon with how the previous administration had handled the surveillance craft.

In other news…….

• Greene calls for probe into why Trump was unaware of previous Chinese balloons

Previous Chinese Spy Balloons Kept Secret from Trump Admin

The appeasement is coming out of the Pentagon.

February 6, 2023 by Daniel Greenfield6 Comments

We know that the Biden administration intended to keep the latest Chinese spy balloon incursion secret from the public. But it appears that the culture of secrecy involving China’s espionage dates back further.
In today’s article, I discussed some of the previous incidents.

Last month, the Director of National Intelligence released a report on “unidentified aerial phenomena”, especially those in “restricted or sensitive airspace”. The report characterized 26 reports as “Unmanned Aircraft System (UAS)” and 163 as “balloon or balloon-like entities.”

And yet not only the general public, but even Trump administration officials, weren’t told about this.

The Defense Department has notified Congress of several previous incursions of U.S. airspace by Chinese surveillance balloons, with earlier sightings near Texas, Florida, Hawaii and Guam, U.S. officials said Sunday, as Republicans criticized the Biden administration for allowing a suspected surveillance balloon to track across much of the United States over the last week…

Two such incidents were reported near Florida, while there was at least one each in the other three locations, Waltz said.
The defense officials said that several of those events occurred during the Trump administration, Waltz said. Officials had also said that during a news briefing with reporters on Saturday…

Several former Trump administration officials, including former defense secretary Mark T. Esper, said they do not recall reports of such balloons reaching their level, raising questions about how they were handled at the time.
A senior administration official, speaking on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue, said Sunday that the previous occurrences were discovered after the Trump administration left office.

They were apparently kept under wraps. Why? That’s something I also discuss.

Contrary to the liberal stereotype of top defense officials as gung-ho warmongers in movies like Dr. Strangelove, top generals are much more likely to dissuade presidents from military action. Gen. Milley’s phone calls with China, which shocked many conservatives, were not an aberration. Top defense officials have taken on diplomatic roles, reaching out to foreign enemies to provide personal assurances and “defuse” tensions in ways far outside their mission.
It is in this spirit that not only the White House and top Democrats, but military brass were willing to put up with close Chinese surveillance, even when it risks costing thousands of lives and losing a war, to avoid escalating tensions with Communist China. The appeasement is coming out of the Pentagon. And it amounts to a national security crisis and a preemptive surrender.

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And it amounts to a national security crisis and a preemptive surrender.

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Some hysterics there. You spy on them and they spy on you. Hardly a national security crisis.

Good job they didn't tell baldy orange cunto, the idiot would probably have started world war 3.

Do you think it flew over Joe Biden's garage?


Attachment 97888

Attachment 97889

Some highlights first

If it had been a US airship over China, “you can only imagine the response from Beijing”, he added.

General Glen VanHerck, described the balloon as being 200 feet (61 metres) high, with a surveillance payload the size of a regional passenger jet. :)

China has previously objected when foreign military surveillance planes flew off its coast in international airspace. In 2001, a US navy plane conducting routine surveillance near the Chinese coast collided with a Chinese fighter plane, killing the Chinese fighter pilot and damaging the American plane, which was forced to make an emergency landing at a Chinese naval airbase on the southern island of Hainan. China detained the 24-member US navy aircrew for 10 days until the US expressed regret.

• War of words over downed Chinese spy balloon continues as US recovers debris

The diplomatic row has escalated over the Chinese high-altitude balloon that flew across the US before being shot down, as the first wreckage was salvaged off the Atlantic coast.

Beijing on Monday accused the US of “overreaction” and the “indiscriminate use of military force” in shooting down a Chinese balloon, warning of damage to bilateral relations.

Joe Biden said that relations between Washington and Beijing had not been weakened by the incident, telling reporters: “We made it clear to China what we’re going to do. They understand our position. We’re not going to back off.”

A state department spokesperson, Ned Price, pointed out that the secretary of state, Antony Blinken, had warned his counterpart, Wang Yi, on Friday that the US would take “appropriate actions to protect our interests”.

“It should not have come as a complete surprise” to Beijing when the balloon was shot down the following day, Price said.

If it had been a US airship over China, “you can only imagine the response from Beijing”, he added.

The Pentagon said the first bits of debris had been found on the ocean surface off the South Carolina coast, while work continued to find the bits and pieces that had sunk to the sea bed. It called on the public to report any fragments that washed up on shore.

The White House national security spokesperson, John Kirby, said the United States was able to study the balloon while it was flying and officials hope to glean valuable intelligence on its operations by retrieving as many components as possible.

The head of North American Aerospace Defence (Norad) Command, General Glen VanHerck, described the balloon as being 200 feet (61 metres) high, with a surveillance payload the size of a regional passenger jet.

When it was first spotted passing over the US Aleutian Islands, the general said he decided not to shoot it down.

“It was my assessment that this balloon did not present a physical military threat to North America – this is under my Norad hat – and therefore, I could not take immediate action because it was not demonstrating hostile act or hostile intent,” VanHerck told reporters.

He said the aircraft was able to manoeuvre to some extent by taking advantages of different wind directions at different altitudes, and that the balloon’s route appeared to have been deliberately planned to navigate those currents.

China has claimed the aircraft was a weather balloon that had been blown off course. The country’s vice-foreign minister, Xie Feng, lodged a formal complaint with the US embassy on Sunday over the incident, accusing Washington of overreacting to an accident “caused by force majeure”, according to a statement posted on the Chinese foreign ministry website.

“The facts are clear … but the United States turned a deaf ear and insisted on indiscriminate use of force against the civilian airship that was about to leave the United States airspace. It obviously overreacted and seriously violated the spirit of international law and international practice,” Xie was quoted as saying.

He accused Washington of “dealing a serious blow” to efforts and progress in stabilising China-US relations since Joe Biden’s summit with Xi Jinping in November.

“China resolutely opposes and strongly protests this, and urges the US to refrain from taking further actions to harm China’s interests and to escalate tensions,” he said.

VanHerck said that an amphibious dock landing ship, the USS Carter Hall, would serve as the command vessel for the debris search, and that a navy oceanographic vessel was mapping below the surface to search for debris.

Rough seas have hindered the search, but he said navy divers on rigid inflatable boats had begun work on Monday morning with the help of unmanned underwater vehicles, and that by the afternoon, more would be known about the location of large pieces of submerged debris.

The incident came amid tensions over issues including Taiwan, trade and human rights. It also prompted Antony Blinken, the US secretary of state, to postpone a visit to Beijing.

On Monday, the Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson Mao Ning said the incident tested “the US’s sincerity in stabilising and improving Sino-US relations”.

She said: “The US deliberately exaggerated and hyped [the incident] and even used military force to attack. This is unacceptable and irresponsible.”

She also admitted that the balloon spotted over Latin America belonged to China but said it was a civilian airship used for flight tests that entered the airspace of Latin America and the Caribbean “by accident”.

Yoshihiko Isozaki, the Japanese deputy chief cabinet secretary, said on Monday that a flying object thought to be Chinese and similar to the one shot down by the US, had been spotted at least twice over northern Japan since 2020, the Associated Press reported.

China has previously objected when foreign military surveillance planes flew off its coast in international airspace. In 2001, a US navy plane conducting routine surveillance near the Chinese coast collided with a Chinese fighter plane, killing the Chinese fighter pilot and damaging the American plane, which was forced to make an emergency landing at a Chinese naval airbase on the southern island of Hainan. China detained the 24-member US navy aircrew for 10 days until the US expressed regret.

Prof William Hurst, the deputy director at the Centre for Geopolitics at the University of Cambridge, said the balloon incident had occurred in a much more negative climate than the spy plane incident. “The public revelation complicated domestic politics in the US, which were already fraught,” he said. “Its effect will likely be smaller, but take longer to unwind.”

VanHerck, the Norad chief, said the military had not detected previous spy balloons before this one and called it an “awareness gap.”

However, he said US intelligence determined previous flights after the fact based on “additional means of collection” of intelligence.

Navy releases images of downed Chinese balloon

The Navy on Tuesday released images of sailors pulling from the ocean some of the remains of a suspected Chinese surveillance balloon a day after it was shot down off the coast of South Carolina.

In photos posted to Twitter by U.S. Fleet Forces, sailors assigned to Explosive Ordnance Disposal Group 2 are seen recovering a piece of the balloon on Sunday in the waters off Myrtle Beach.

U.S. Fleet Forces - Sailors assigned to Explosive Ordnance Disposal Group 2 recover a high-altitude surveillance balloon off the coast of Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, Feb. 5, 2023. https://twitter.com/USFleetForces/st...75492495114242

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FoX3mHha...jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FoX3mG4X...jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FoX3mHWW...jpg&name=large



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FoX3mG2X...jpg&name=large

The Navy is still in the midst of the cleanup, which began Sunday after the balloon was downed by an F-22 on Saturday seven miles off the coast. Sailors aboard several ships continue to scan for debris of the estimated 200-foot aerial object that spent days floating over the country. Also on the balloon was a device roughly the size of a regional jet, U.S. Northern Command head Gen. Glen VanHerck told reporters Monday.

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Originally Posted by sabang

Or is it a weather balloon? Anyway, it's hilarious.

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Why send something so obvious that even the chinese would know that it would cause an incident and would be easily detected? Especially when its the size of a death star. It is hard to believe even the chinese with all their hubris could be that naive. To me it is more likely a weather balloon until the evidence says otherwise. On the other side of the coin the Americans are not above given the Chinese a bit of their own propaganda medicine back.

• Gen. Glen VanHerck, Commander, North American Aerospace Defense Command and United States Northern Command, Holds an Off-Camera, On-The-Record Briefing on the High-Altitude Surveillance Balloon Recovery Efforts

GENERAL GLEN VANHERCK: Hey, thanks a lot, Pat, and thanks a lot to the entire team here for the opportunity to get together and talk a little bit about the operations that ongoing right now to salvage as much as we can of the Chinese high-altitude balloon primarily for the safety and security of -- of folks in the local area, but also to recover and exploit that in any way that we can.

So let me just walk through a few things that are -- that are ongoing for you here. We continue to -- to focus on safe execution of a recovery while effective recovery so that we can exploit that, and to provide as much information as we can to the media, the public, Congress -- everybody that has an interest in what we're actually finding.

So the USS Carter Hall, a U.S. Navy ship under the command and control of NORTHCOM through my Navy component, now the North, Navy North, led by Admiral Daryl Caudle, they're on station in the vicinity of the splashdown, and they've been collecting debris, category -- categorizing the debris since arrival. The U.S. Navy Ship Pathfinder is also on station. The Pathfinder is a ship that conducts survey operations using sonar and other means to map out the debris field. It's capable of conducting oceanographic, hydrographic, bathymetric surveys of the bottom of the ocean to do that. And they'll eventually produce us a map -- they're in the process of doing that, and I expect to have much more today -- of the full debris field. But we expect the debris field to be of the rough order of magnitude of about 1,500 meters by 1,500 meters, and so, you know, more than 15 football fields by 15 football fields. But we'll get a further assessment of that today.

Yesterday's sea states did not allow us to conduct some of the operations that we would have liked to have conducted such as underwater surveillance. And so those forces that provide the explosive ordnance disposal to make sure the scene is safe, they're out today, this morning, and they went out in what's called a rigid hull inflatable boat this morning, Eastern time approximately 10:00 o'clock, to proceed to the -- the area to utilize unmanned underwater vehicles using side scan sonar to further locate sunken debris. And so we expect them to get on there and to do some additional categorization of potential threats such as explosives that may be on, hazardous materials that could be in batteries, et cetera, so we're working very hard.

I'd remind you, this is a effort that's in the open ocean ongoing in approximately 50 feet of water, and so we have to be very cognizant of the sea states, currents, et cetera, so we continue to -- to move forward.

Very proud to have a -- a Coast Guard support. We have cutters, the U.S. Coast Guard Cutter Venturous, the Cutter Richard Snyder, the Cutter Nathan Rectanual, or -- so excuse me -- Bruckenthal -- I -- I got that one right finally. Those are out of the Coast Guard. We have air station support out of Elizabeth City and Savannah, Georgia, as well, and response boats from Georgetown, South Carolina, all providing security and safety to ensure not only the safety of the men and women of the military forces conducting operation, but the general public as well, so we keep it safe in the area.

As a quick note, I would remind you that due to ocean currents, it's possible that there may be some debris that does float ashore. And so what we would ask of the public, and you can help me with this, is avoid contact. Contact local law enforcement immediately to take care of any of that debris.

The FBI and the Naval Criminal Investigative Service agents are working closely. They're embedded with us, with authorities to make sure that we collect that debris, and the FBI is embedded with us on our salvage operations as we collect this under counterintelligence authorities.

I don't know where the debris' going to go for a final analysis, but I will tell you that certainly the intel community, along with the law enforcement community that works this under counter intelligence, will take a good look at it. So we look forward to moving forward there.

Okay, so I'm happy to talk about the ongoing operations or potentially some of the operations that we conducted on Saturday, and I look forward to your questions.

I'd also like to thank one more thing is -- before we go forward. This was truly an inter-agency effort. The FAA was tremendous, and I know you're all aware that we closed airports in the area, Charleston, Myrtle Beach, as well as some others. They were tremendous.

This was all for the public safety to ensure we could accomplish this operation safely and effectively, and that's exactly what happened. The Federal Bureau of Investigation was able to reach out to the local law enforcement communities in near real time of making this happen to ensure that folks were aware and that we made as safe and effective as an operation as possible.

And so thanks for your time, and I look forward to your questions.

A lot of questions in the link

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Originally Posted by Hugh Cow

Why send something so obvious that even the chinese would know that it would cause an incident and would be easily detected? Especially when its the size of a death star. It is hard to believe even the chinese with all their hubris could be that naive. To me it is more likely a weather balloon until the evidence says otherwise. On the other side of the coin the Americans are not above given the Chinese a bit of their own propaganda medicine back.

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Of course the whole balloon contains nothing in any way nefarious. It might as well have a big flag that springs out saying 'Bang!!' on it. :)


3 nil to China.


1. the level of hilarity of it.
2. they made the whole US jump up and down and spit out their Super-Size Pepsi.
3. they made the US shoot it down.
4. they can forever wave away accusations as paranoia and point back to this as evidence.
5. I'm not as good at maths as them.

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Originally Posted by Hugh Cow

Why send something so obvious that even the chinese would know that it would cause an incident and would be easily detected? Especially when its the size of a death star. It is hard to believe even the chinese with all their hubris could be that naive. To me it is more likely a weather balloon until the evidence says otherwise. On the other side of the coin the Americans are not above given the Chinese a bit of their own propaganda medicine back.

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https://teakdoor.com/world-news/2136...ml#post4478031

Everything you thought about asking was answered.

• Just a couple of the first questions during the briefing

STAFF: All right, thank you, sir. Let's go to Jeff Schogol Task & Purpose.

Q: Thank you. Can you say the F-22 that shot down the balloon, will it get a balloon decal to signify the victory?

GEN. VANHERCK: Hey, Jeff, I'll differ to the first fighter wing. I -- I will say I'm really incredibly proud of everybody that took place in this. But the F-22 was remarkable. I'd remind everybody that the call sign of the first flight was Frank 01. The secondly flight of F-22s was Luke 01; a flight of two.

Frank, Luke; Medal of Honor winner, World War I for his activities that he conducted against observation balloons. So how fitting is it that Frank 01 took down this balloon in sovereign air space of the United States of America within our territorial waters.

STAFF: Thank you, sir. Let's go to Natasha Laguerre from Myrtle Beach.

Q: Hello, I see that you guys still have ships out here. Is that should be a concern for people in this area? And you also mentioned that you guys yesterday could not use the sonar panels to collect the debris under the ocean. What was it that caused it to have a stop there compared to today?

GEN. VANHERCK: Yes, so those are under current -- underwater currents and sea states, which were -- that exceeded the safety parameters for the -- the forces that come out of the EOD and the multiple unit two to provide that.

The area we have set up there is about a 10 mile -- 10 by 10 mile area to -- for safety purposes, from air traffic and a smaller area that we're providing for security and safety on the surface. But the primary reason was absolutely for the safety of our military and our interagency partners supporting us. The sea states just didn't allow that.

Q: And I have a follow-up question. Could you give us an estimate of how big the balloon was? We saw that it had solar panels and it could also potentially had a recording device on it.

GEN. VANHERCK: Yes, so the balloon assessment was up to 200 feet tall for the actual balloon. The payload itself, I would categorize that as a jet airliner type of size, maybe a regional jet such as a ERJ or something like that. Probably weighed in access of a couple thousand pounds. So I would -- from a safety standpoint, picture yourself with large debris weighing hundreds if not thousands of pounds falling out of the sky. That's really what we're kind of talking about.

So glass off of solar panels potentially hazardous material, such as material that is required for batteries to operate in such an environment as this and even the potential for explosives to detonate and destroy the balloon that -- that could have been present.

So I think that would give you an idea of the perspective of the balloon and the decision-making process along the way.

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Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

The general consensus is that it was an attempt by the chinkies to embarrass the US after it announced it's putting a base in the Phillippines.

Now of course the whiny twats are all upset because the US shot it down.

:smileylaughing:

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Pickpockets usually work in pairs. One bumps into you, and while you are busy being mad at the person that bumped into you, the other one picks your pocket.
Could this be some of that?

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Originally Posted by S Landreth

Navy releases images of downed Chinese balloon

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missed a picture

https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/Q8...04a33fe83bc83e