Thread: France gripped by strikes, protests against pension reform

More than a million people marched in France on Thursday to protest pension reforms, with some demonstrators clashing with police in Paris, as strikes disrupted public transport, schools and much of the civil service.


The interior ministry put the total number of protesters marching against President Emmanuel Macron’s plan to extend the retirement age at 1.2 million, including 80,000 in Paris.


The hard-left CGT union said there had been over two million people at protests across France, and 400,000 in the capital alone.


Another new day of action is planned for January 31.


Around the Bastille area of Paris, some demonstrators hurled bottles, bins and smoke grenades at police who responded with tear gas and charged to disperse the troublemakers, according to AFP journalists at the scene.


As the march wound down in the evening, groups of young protesters also clashed with security forces at the vast Nation plaza in eastern Paris, setting fire to several bicycles and smashing bus stops.


Police said 44 people were arrested on weapon or violence charges, mostly from among the radical “Black Blocs” group, who wore masks, helmets and black clothes. Officers managed to split off the group, who numbered around a thousand, from the main demonstration, said police.


No major violent incidents were reported elsewhere in France.


The pensions plan, presented by Macron’s government last week, would raise the retirement age for most from 62 — among the lowest in the EU — to 64 and would increase the years of contributions required for a full pension.


– ‘Die on the job’ –


France’s trade unions had called for a mass mobilisation, the first time they have united since 12 years ago, when the retirement age was hiked to 62 from 60.


Police said earlier they had prepared for 550,000 to 750,000 protesters in all of France, including up to 80,000 in the capital.


Macron, speaking from a French-Spanish summit in Barcelona, defended what he called a “fair and responsible reform”.


But demonstrators disagreed, including Hamidou, 43, who joined the protest in central Paris.


“Macron wants us to die on the job,” he said. “We get up very early. Some colleagues wake up at 3 am. Working until 64 is too much.”


Nearby, 15-year-old Charlie Perrin decried an ever-retreating retirement age.


“The way things are going, we’ll be almost unable to walk or live by the time we’re given the right to retire,” she said.


Almost one public-sector worker in three was on strike by midday, the government estimated.


– Reform ‘unjust’ –


In the northwestern region of Brittany, carpenter and roofer Laurent Quere, 42, said he was fiercely opposed to having to work longer.


“What client in their right mind would employ us on a work site aged 64?” he said.


The strikes disrupted public transport in the capital, closing one metro line and forcing others to run reduced services. Large numbers of trains were cancelled across France.


Many parents were forced to look after their children as around 40 percent of primary school teachers and more than 30 percent in the secondary system walked out, according to official estimates.


Unions put the strike participation much higher, at 70 and 65 percent respectively.


Strikers at state-owned energy provider EDF said they had lowered electricity output by 7,000 megawatts, while grid operator RTE put the figure at 5,000 MW — enough to power two cities the size of Paris.


But the CGT union said the reduction would have “no impact on users”.


CGT chief Philippe Martinez told broadcaster Public Senat earlier Thursday the pension reform “bundles together everyone’s dissatisfaction” with the government. “We all agree that the reform is unjust.”


With Paris metros and buses in disarray, basketball fans were expected to have problems getting to the sold-out NBA Paris Game between the Detroit Pistons and Chicago Bulls in the northeast of the capital in the evening.


– Two-thirds opposed –


Opinion polls show that around two-thirds of French people oppose raising the retirement age, a move that comes amid high inflation and with the country still recovering from the economic fallout of the Covid-19 pandemic.


Macron’s last attempt at pension reform in 2019 ended a year later when Covid-19 hit Europe. But it had already prompted the longest strike on the Paris transport network in three decades.


The 45-year-old former banker vowed to press ahead with plans to push back the retirement age during his re-election campaign last year, pointing to forecasts that the system could fall into deep deficits at the end of the decade.


But unions are suspicious of the overhaul, and want to protect those who started working at a young age or have been toiling in physically demanding jobs.



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Which contract did they sign?

Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai

I think the goverment has every right to require that NEW workers entering the workforce are subject to new regulations, and such new workers have the right to accept it or to reject it. It is called collective bargaining.

No it isn't.

Individuals accepting or rejecting a contract has nothing to do with collective bargaining.

I agree with the rest of your post. Previous agreements should be honoured, but doubtless contracts include clauses like 'subject to...'.

And all this squeeze goes on in France and the UK while CEOs and the like get paid like rock stars, without even doing a good job in many cases.

Karl fucking marx

And all this squeeze goes on in France and the UK while CEOs and the like get paid like rock stars, without even doing a good job in many cases.

a bit like those who will happily accept the benefits and advantages a civilised country has to offer its citizens, such as a free education and health care, paid for through the taxes taken from those ceo rock star salaries you vilify, and then jump ship to seek those same riches by working abroad for a tax free perk heavy contract in an oppressive misogenystic dictatorship.

You are a sad little hypocrite, like many of your champagne socialist brethren.

.....

cyrille lost for words! well thats a surprise.

Originally Posted by DrWilly

Which contract did they sign?

The bilateral social contract that people in a particular county enter with each other, delineating the responsibilities of the citizen and the goverment.
In a bilateral contract both parties need to perform The goverment promised that if you work until 62 we will give you a retirement based on a compensation formula and the worker said ok , then I will work, and makes life long decisions based on that agreement.
How would you like it if you entered into an agreement with someone, ley's say buy a car, and the dealer said if you make payments for 5 years you will own the car, then after you made payments for five years and go to get clear title, the dealer says to you that things are tough for him and now you need to make payments for 7 years?

When are they not on strike over some perceived injustice?

Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai

If contracts are able to change retroactively without the consent of both parties, such contracts are USELESS.

Can you represent me please?, my Govt raised my pension age, oh and the age when i get a free buss pass.

Originally Posted by malmomike77

Can you represent me please?, my Govt raised my pension age, oh and the age when i get a free buss pass.

Don't forget the heating allowance or has that gone?

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Don't forget the heating allowance or has that gone?

you're kidding, bastards.

Thing is BB there are a significant number of people who don't contribute at all in the UK or fail to meet the 35 years contributions for a full state pension but they still get one and those also have a contract by your definition.

The "contract" you refer to is one with the next generation, as its those in current employment who pay for those receiving the state pension.

The problem all Govts who provide state pensions are facing is an ageing population and less people in work contributing for their full working lives so you have play with actuaries levers and either tax those working more or you fiddle with age bands.

EDIT

I have ignored any state pension in my retirement plans - if i get to the qualifying age its a bonus

Originally Posted by malmomike77

Can you represent me please?, my Govt raised my pension age, oh and the age when i get a free buss pass.

Thats where strong unions come in.
Our politicians enrich themselves and their friends and "liberate " places like iraq and Syria
Send Billions to the Ukraine, then says that they dont have enough to pay us what was promised, asks us to bend over and don't even have the decency to provide vaseline.
Shut the whole country down , as they do in France and teach the politicians that charity starts at home.

^ or just carry on and ignore things like Greece

Originally Posted by malmomike77

Thing is BB there are a significant number of people who don't contribute at all in the UK or fail to meet the 35 years contributions for a full state pension but they still get one and those also have a contract by your definition.

Some people pay less. others pay more. I'r how insurance schemes work.

Originally Posted by malmomike77

The "contract" you refer to is one with the next generation, as its those in current employment who pay for those receiving the state pension.

I beg to differ. An agreement can only be made between consenting parties , future generations can not possibly provide consent.

By the way. Contracts can be renegotiated to prevent default.
So how about using a progressive scale, prorating time served?
For instance , if someone has three fourths contribution only gets the tree fourths as originally negotiated, and the remaining one fourth under the new negotiated agreement. And rather than increasing the retirement age , decrease the payoff if one retires at the originally negotiated age of 62, or has the option to wait until 64 for full pension.

Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai

I beg to differ. An agreement can only be made between consenting parties , future generations can not possibly provide consent.

its how the UK state pension works, i never said it was a contract.

^^ it is by its nature an imperfect system, many private schemes moving from defined benefit to defined contribution have faced challenges in migrating.

Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai

Working until 64 is too much for some and not so much for others. It depends on the kind of work they do. A progresive retirement system is more fair IMO
When the current retirement policies were implemented they were based on the demographics available at that time,
Obviously the demographics as it pertains to longevity have change, so it is inevitable that the policies should also change.
But such policies can not change retroactively. Those who have entered into a social contract to work until 62 have every right to expect that such contract will be respected, they performed adequately and now so should the goverment.
If contracts are able to change retroactively without the consent of both parties, such contracts are USELESS.
I think the goverment has every right to require that NEW workers entering the workforce are subject to new regulations, and such new workers have the right to accept it or to reject it. It is called collective bargaining.

The retirement age in Greece is about 35, isn't it?

If it was in your ‘Daily Mail’ then it must be true.

Originally Posted by malmomike77

its how the UK state pension works, i never said it was a contract.

Yea they all run like that. US also Rob Pete to pay Paul in the meantime we spend Trillions liberating Iraq. and we just send about 30 billion to the Ukraine, and god knows how much more we would spend there.
In the mean time we raise the debt ceiling every year. What is the use having a debt ceiling if you are going to raise it every time you do a budget?
The whole thing is a bad joke. We should all be taking to the streets like the French do.

Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai

In the mean time we raise the debt ceiling every year. What is the use having a debt ceiling if you are going to raise it every time you do a budget?

its called being the only game in town as a reserve currency

Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai

We should all be taking to the streets like the French do.

well they can do that as the clubs second string country, if the Germans behaved like the Frenchies the EU and Euro would have problems

Originally Posted by hallelujah

The retirement age in Greece is about 35, isn't it?

I know you are kidding but..
I just Googled it, . It is actually 67 .

Originally Posted by cyrille

If it was in your ‘Daily Mail’ then it must be true.

A Guardian reading Daily Mail reader.

You been taking logic tips from Backspit?

Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai

I know you are kidding but..
I just Googled it, . It is actually 67 .

I was over there in August in Athens and the islands nearby, enjoying the fine cuisine. Your home country was still as wonderful as ever, so it's no wonder people retire at 35.

In all seriousness, wasn't it previously 62?