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  1. #1
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    Twenty-five people have been arrested in raids across Germany

    Twenty-five people have been arrested in raids across Germany on suspicion of plotting to overthrow the government.

    German reports say the group of far-right and ex-military figures planned to storm the parliament building, the Reichstag, and seize power.

    A German man referred to as a prince called Heinrich XIII, 71, is alleged to have been central to their plans.

    According to federal prosecutors, he is one of two alleged ringleaders among those arrested across 11 German states.

    The plotters are said to include members of the extremist Reichsbürger [Citizens of the Reich] movement, which has long been in the sights of German police over violent attacks and racist conspiracy theories. They also refuse to recognise the modern German state.

    An estimated 50 men and women are alleged to have been part of the group who are said to have plotted to overthrow the republic and replace it with a new state modelled on the Germany of 1871 - an empire called the Second Reich.

    "We don't yet have a name for this group," said a spokeswoman for the federal prosecutor's office.

    Raids took place in much of the country and two people were arrested in Austria and Italy, Germany's DPA news agency reported. Those detained were due to be questioned later in the day.

    Justice Minister Marco Buschmann tweeted that a major anti-terror operation was taking place and a suspected "armed attack on constitutional bodies was planned".

    The federal prosecutor said the group had been plotting a violent coup since November 2021.

    Former members of the military were also a significant part of the coup plot, reports said. They included ex-elite soldiers from special units.

    The plotters had already established plans to rule Germany, the federal prosecutor's office said. Members understood they could only realise their goals by "military means and violence against state representatives" and that included carrying out killings.

    Public broadcaster ZDF reported that a former far-right member of the lower house of parliament, the Bundestag, was also part of the plot and was lined up to be installed as the group's justice minister, with Prince Heinrich as leader.

    Germany arrests 25 accused of plotting coup - BBC News

  2. #2
    Praise Jesus
    Edmond's Avatar
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    PH hasn't been on in a while.

  3. #3
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    Not Putsch to reich heim about?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmond View Post
    PH hasn't been on in a while.
    Very busy advising the Sussex's on how to produce 'pie catching" press releases in Wranglo-Saxon at Brighton and Hove valve again.

  5. #5
    Hangin' Around cyrille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmond View Post
    PH hasn't been on in a while.
    In mourning.

    Great, innit.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille View Post
    In mourning.

    Great, innit.
    Sehr Gut ein Cy Zinger auf dem Zwinger

  7. #7
    Thailand Expat helge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmond View Post
    PH hasn't been on in a while.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shutree View Post
    A German man referred to as a prince called Herman XIII
    Neither has Herman
    Quote Originally Posted by Shutree View Post
    the coup plot
    Or Takeover


  8. #8
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    I posted this because I thought it significant that Germany's looney right had coalesced into a more structured and existential threat to democracy. I have a theory that Covid lockdowns contributed to this and to some extent Trump stirred that pot. There is reason to take it seriously, Plato described the cycle of governments, to save anyone the trouble of actually reading The Republic (not pretending that I read the whole thing myself, I started and never finished) here it is in short form:

    Plato describes his version of the kyklos in his work Republic, Book VIII and IX. He distinguishes five forms of government: aristocracy, timocracy, oligarchy, democracy, and tyranny, and writes that governments devolve respectively in this order from aristocracy into tyranny.

    My underlining.

    Kyklos - Wikipedia

  9. #9
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    Anyone suggesting that democracy is a devolved version of aristocracy or oligarchy is clearly short of a few sandwiches.

  10. #10
    Thailand Expat helge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shutree View Post
    Germany's looney right had coalesced into a more structured and existential threat to democracy. I have a theory that Covid lockdowns contributed to this and to some extent Trump stirred that pot.
    Maybe and maybe not.

    Was the Bundesrepublik scrubbed and cleaned properly after WW2 ?

    No

    Does Germany have a lot of dis-satisfied citizens ?

    Absolutely

    Is the 'Looney Right' dangerous ?

    Hardly

    Hmm

    Looneys started the shit last time around(with help from the "proper" right).

  11. #11
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    Danes are generally blessed with an expensive brand of mild mannered socialism.

    Your final sentence is from a biased neighbour viewpoint.

    I can see some version of truth in what Shutree has proposed.

    Having lived there for 12 years, my experience tells me, Don't fuck with Germans!

  12. #12
    Thailand Expat helge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switch View Post
    Your final sentence is from a biased neighbour viewpoint.
    I don't think so, but OK

    Fact is that the nazies got support from rightwing industrialists and their final powergrab was enabled by the political right.



    Quote Originally Posted by Switch View Post
    Having lived there for 12 years, my experience tells me, Don't fuck with Germans!
    They have been lackays for the americans for more than 70 years, but maybe they have fooled us all

  13. #13
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrWilly View Post
    Anyone suggesting that democracy is a devolved version of aristocracy or oligarchy is clearly short of a few sandwiches.
    Given the time period when democracies were few and far between I can see from their perspective how they came to this conclusion. They all made good points however, no matter the form of gov.

    All the philosophers believed that this cycling was harmful. The transitions would often be accompanied by violence and turmoil, and a good part of the cycle would be spent with the degenerate forms of government.

    Aristotle gave a number of options as to how the cycle could be halted or slowed:

    Even the most minor changes to basic laws and constitutions must be opposed because over time the small changes will add up to a complete transformation.

    In aristocracies and democracies the tenure of rulers must be kept very short to prevent them from becoming despots.

    External threats, real or imagined, preserve internal peace.

    The three government basic systems can be blended into one, taking the best elements of each.

    If any one individual gains too much power, be it political, monetary, or military he should be banished from the polis.

    Judges and magistrates must never accept money to make decisions.

    The middle class must be large.

    Most important to Aristotle in preserving a constitution is education: if all the citizens are aware of law, history, and the constitution they will endeavour to maintain a good government.

    Kyklos - Wikipedia
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switch View Post
    Don't fuck with Germans!
    I think the standing order was

    NO FRATERNISATION

    Of course well paid single men could hardly resist those big blonde Helgeliebechen

    Twenty-five people have been arrested in raids across Germany-download-jpg

    What's not to like.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Twenty-five people have been arrested in raids across Germany-download-jpg  

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by helge View Post
    I don't think so, but OK

    Fact is that the nazies got support from rightwing industrialists and their final powergrab was enabled by the political right.





    They have been lackays for the americans for more than 70 years, but maybe they have fooled us all
    Your use of the term 'proper' right is confusing.

    My view is probably more parochial. My view of Denmark and Sweden comes from casual sailing experience and the occasional NATO deployment.

    Topically we invited a variety of gastarbeiters to take part in an very amateur version of the football World Cup. Turkish, Portuguese, and Indians were involved and we provided English, Scots, Irish and Welsh. The Host nation was happy to oblige with facilities for football and alcohol consumption.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrWilly View Post
    Anyone suggesting that democracy is a devolved version of aristocracy or oligarchy is clearly short of a few sandwiches.
    Perhaps devolved is not the best word here but it works. Maybe transitioned? The key point of Plato's thinking was this is a cycle of changes in a predictable order. My suggestion is that democracy is not the final form of government. As Norton points out the transitions can be slowed, possibly even stopped. Or maybe we are slowly sliding towards tyranny.

  17. #17
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    well they have form, and this time they have the ukranians on side

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