Thread: Russia launches Ukraine invasion

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Note however...

Of course, it will take months. The question is how many. I would say they will be operational on the battlefield by summer at the latest.

There was a chap from the Queens Royal Hussars on the radio the other day suggesting the Challenger II would be used to punch through (given its Armour with none taken out in Iraq despite taking heavy fire) and then the Leopards being faster used to race through and get in behind the lines.

I don't think they'll be punching through a tank line however.

A fully armoured challenger 2 is a very heavy tank. I imagine it needs pretty solid ground not to get bogged down.

Originally Posted by Troy

You may be willing to take the risk of sacrificing European lives, they are not.

Sending tanks is now officialy declared by Germany. Along with the OK to other countries to sending tanks too.

Originally Posted by Troy

A fully armoured challenger 2 is a very heavy tank. I imagine it needs pretty solid ground not to get bogged down.

All MBTs are 60+ Tonnes

Are the good guys winning as of yet?

Originally Posted by HuangLao

Are the good guys winning as of yet?

They have been for months. What planet do you live on? Let me guess Sabang lives there too.

Wow, how low can you go. The US is now begging off the beggars, on behalf of that other beggar Zelensky. Have you no pride?

U.S. and Germany to send battle tanks to Ukraine

The U.S. and Germany separately announced on Wednesday they would send battle tanks to Ukraine after pressure from NATO allies and Ukraine to supply the advanced armored vehicles as Kyiv prepares for a possible new Russian offensive.

Why it matters: The U.S. decision to supply Abrams M1 tanks and the German announcement on the Leopard 2 tanks is a major boost for Ukraine, which has pleaded with the West for months to send more advanced weaponry as it tries to take back territory from Russia.

Details: The U.S. will send 31 Abrams tanks to Ukraine and will begin training Ukrainian troops on sustaining the tanks as soon as possible, Biden said at a press conference Wednesday.

• Biden cautioned that delivering the tanks would "take time."
• Biden said that prior to the announcement he had spoken to the leaders of France, Germany, Italy and the U.K. “to continue our close coordination and full support of Ukraine."

Germany will initially supply 14 Leopard 2 tanks from its own stock, as well as ammunition and logistical and maintenance support, its government said in a statement.

• Training Ukrainian forces on the Leopards is expected to begin soon.
• Germany will also quickly provide licenses to other European countries that wish to supply Leopards from their own stock, the statement added. Poland has already requested approval to send some of its Leopards to Ukraine.
• The goal, the German government said, was for Germany and its allies to supply two battalions with Leopards, which would be 88 tanks, per AP.

Catch up quick: Debate among Western allies — particularly between the U.S. and Germany — over sending tanks to Ukraine had escalated over the last week.

• The Biden administration argued in recent days against sending Abrams, citing logistical issues. Instead, U.S. officials said sending German Leopard 2 tanks would be more beneficial since many European allies already have them and they're easier to maintain.
• "The M1 (Abrams) is a complex weapons system that is challenging to maintain ... that was true yesterday, that is true today and will be true in the future," Pentagon spokesperson Brig. Gen. Pat Ryder told reporters on Tuesday.
• Until Wednesday, Scholz had expressed reluctance to send Leopards, fearing it could escalate tensions with Moscow. German officials also reportedly privately linked its own commitment to providing its tanks to a U.S. decision to send Abrams as well. Publicly, however, U.S. and German officials denied any link between the two decisions.
• "Germany didn't force me to change my mind," Biden said Wednesday, adding that the countries were waiting to act together.

What they're saying: "Today's announcement builds on the hard work and commitment from countries around the world, led by the United States of America, to help Ukraine defend its sovereignty and territorial integrity," Biden said Wednesday.

• "That's what this is about. Helping Ukraine defend and protect Ukrainian land. It is not an offensive threat to Russia. There is no offensive threat to Russia," he added.
• "Germany has really stepped up," Biden said, praising Scholz as a "strong voice for unity."
• "Putin expected Europe and the United States to weaken our resolve. He expected our support for Ukraine to crumble with time. He was wrong," Biden said.
• "This decision follows our well-known line of supporting Ukraine to the best of our ability. We are acting in a closely coordinated manner internationally," Scholz said in a statement.
• The German government added that Wednesday's decision was "the result of intensive consultations with Germany's closest European and international partners."

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky expressed his thanks for the U.S.' decision to send Abrams tanks in a tweet Wednesday, writing that it was "an important step on the path to victory."

• Earlier Wednesday, Zelensky tweeted that he was "sincerely grateful" for Germany's decision to send the Leopards.

The Kremlin called the German announcement and expected U.S. decision to send battle tanks “a rather disastrous plan," according to state media.

• “The main thing is, this is a completely obvious overestimation of the potential [the tanks] would add to the armed forces of Ukraine. It is yet another fallacy, a rather profound one,” Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov said on Wednesday.

Editor's note: This story and headline has been updated with Biden's announcement the U.S. would send 31 tanks to Ukraine.

Great news. I also tip my hat to the British for being ahead of others in helping Ukraine take the fight to the Russian war criminals. I think Sleepy Joe is also doing well.

Originally Posted by malmomike77

I expect the Russians to engage with Anti tank weapons so it'll come down to what they have in that dept. and how the NATO tank armour performs

Note, this vid is from 3 years ago

But jeez norts, begging from Israel?? That's a good one actually.

Originally Posted by sabang

But jeez norts, begging from Israel??

Better than North Korea.

Or South Korea (nah, just depleting ammo reserves there). Nth Korea however, is getting paid. Am I alone in smelling a whiff of desperation?

Ukraine forces pull back from Donbas town after onslaught

KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — Ukrainian forces have conducted an organized retreat from a town in the eastern region of the Donbas, an official said Wednesday, in what amounted to a rare but modest battlefield triumph for Russia after a series of setbacks in its invasion that began almost 11 months ago.


The Ukrainian army retreated from the salt mining town of Soledar to “preserve the lives of personnel,” Serhii Cherevatyi, a spokesperson for Ukraine’s forces in the east, told The Associated Press.


The soldiers pulled back to previously prepared defensive positions, he said. Russia claimed almost two weeks ago that its forces had taken Soledar, but Ukraine denied it.


Moscow has portrayed the battle for the town not far from the Donetsk province city of Bakhmut, as key to capturing all of Ukraine’s Donbas region, where Russia-backed separatists have fought Ukrainian troops for almost nine years and controlled some territory before Russia’s full-scale invasion.


Russian President Vladimir Putin cited the safety of ethnic Russians living in Donetsk and neighboring Luhansk province, which together make up the Donbas, as justification for the invasion. Putin illegally annexed the Ukrainian provinces and two others in late September.


The withdrawal of Ukraine’s troops from Soledar takes the Russian forces a step closer to Bakhmut, but military analysts say the town’s capture is more symbolic than strategic. The fighting in eastern Ukraine has stood mostly at a stalemate for months.

Ukraine’s military has said its fierce defense of Soledar and Bakhmut helped tie up Russian forces.


Many of Russia’s troops around Soledar belong to the Wagner Group, a private Russian military contractorand the fighting reportedly has been bloody.


Since its invasion of Ukraine, Moscow has prioritized taking full control of the Donbas, where it has backed a separatist insurgency since 2014. Russia has seized most of Luhansk, but about half of Donetsk remains under Ukraine’s control.


“Russia is not reducing combat activity in Donbas, leaving a scorched desert where the Russian military manages to advance,” Donetsk Gov. Pavlo Kyrylenko said on state television.


Taking control of Soledar potentially allows Russian forces to cut supply lines to Ukrainian forces in Bakhmut, though the strength of Ukraine’s new defensive positions was not known.


The Institute for the Study of War, a think tank in Washington, said earlier this month that the fall of Soledar wouldn’t mark “an operationally significant development and is unlikely to presage an imminent Russian encirclement of Bakhmut.”


The institute said Russian information operations have “overexaggerated the importance of Soledar,” which is a small settlement. It also argued that the long and difficult battle has contributed to the exhaustion of Russian forces.


Perhaps more worrying for Moscow, Western military help for Ukraine is now being stepped up with the delivery of tanks.

Elsewhere, Russian forces have continued to pummel Ukrainian areas, especially in the south and east.


Russian strikes wounded 10 civilians in the eastern Donetsk province on Tuesday, Pavlo Kyrylenko, the provincial governor, said.


Five were wounded when Russian shells slammed into apartment blocks, he said.


The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine said Russian forces had launched four missile strikes, 26 airstrikes and more than 100 attacks from rocket salvo systems between Tuesday morning and Wednesday morning.


In addition to Donetsk, the Russian attacks struck settlements in the country’s northeastern Kharkiv and Sumy, northern Chernihiv, easternmost Luhansk, southeastern Zaporizhzhia, and southern Kherson provinces.


Two people were killed and three more wounded in Russian shelling of a grocery store in the Kherson province city of Beryslav on Wednesday, according to an online statement by the regional government.


On Tuesday, the Russian shelling included 12 attacks on the regional capital, also called Kherson, damaging a maternity hospital, a school, a clinic, port buildings and residential buildings, the statement said.


Meanwhile, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, who was a professional comedian and actor before his 2019 election and has become an internationally recognized wartime leader, in the 11 months since Russia invaded his country, turned 45 on Wednesday.


His wife, first lady Olena Zelenska, said that while he is the same person she met at age 17, “Something has changed: You smile much less now.”


“I wish you to have more reasons for smiling. And you know what it takes. We all do,” she tweeted.

Ukraine forces pull back from Donbas town after onslaught | PBS NewsHour

Originally Posted by sabang

Am I alone in smelling a whiff of desperation?

Yes you are.

Zelenskyy fired 9 top officials after reports that members of his government went on vacation to Spain and France and took bribes during the war

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy fired at least nine top officials on Tuesday as his government battles claims of bribery and officials splurging on lavish lifestyles during the war.


Four deputy ministers and five regional governors were sacked by Ukraine's cabinet on Tuesday, according to the Telegram channel of Oleg Nemchinov, the secretary of the cabinet of ministers.


Ukraine's deputy prosecutor general, Oleksiy Symonenko, also announced his resignation on the same day, the BBC reported.


The wave of dismissals and resignations comes as some of Ukraine's top leaders were accused of buying military food at inflated prices and taking luxury holidays as their countrymen fight Russia's invasion.


In December, Symonenko went on holiday to Spain using a Mercedes owned by a prominent Ukrainian businessman, The Guardian reported.


A spokesperson for Ukraine's border guard was also maligned for partying in Paris as the war continued in eastern Ukraine, per Bloomberg.


In response, Zelenskyy on Sunday vowed to stamp out longstanding corruption within Ukraine's leadership.


Ukraine would see "no return to the way things used to be," he said in a video address, adding that the coming week would be the "time of appropriate decisions."


"Of course, now the main focus is the issue of defense, this is the issue of foreign policy, this is the issue of war," he said. "But this does not mean that I do not see and hear what is being said in society at various levels, both at the central level and in the regions."


On Monday, Zelenskyy banned officials from traveling abroad until the end of the war, except for when performing government duties.


"If they want to rest now, they will rest outside the civil service," he said.


Another sacked official, former Deputy Defense Minister Vyacheslav Shapovalov, resigned after Ukrainian newspapers reported that he had purchased food for the military at prices inflated two or three times higher than in grocery stores.


Shapovalov spent $360 million for the food, Ukrainian newspaper ZN UA reported.


The country's defense minister, Oleksiy Reznikov, said the inflated prices were due to a contractor mixing up data in a "technical error," claiming the reports of corruption were manipulating the facts.


Meanwhile, the defense ministry said Shapovalov denied the corruption claims, but asked to be fired to maintain public trust in the government.


Zelenskyy's press office and Ukraine's Defense Ministry did not immediately respond to Insider's requests for comment.

Zelenskyy fired 9 top officials after reports that members of his government went on vacation to Spain and France and took bribes during the war

Wow, that "News" about Soledar is hot off the Press.

Originally Posted by bsnub

Who knows, but I tool pleasure in seeing the Screws twist on Schultz. He really is a weak coont.

A 'weak coont' who thinks of his country, the larger picture and won't be bullied by the US

Originally Posted by sabang

Wow, how low can you go. The US is now begging off the beggars

Is that how you see it? Really? Iran, North Korea etc . . . you're as much of a joke and Putin . . . without the power, thankfully

They say you shouldn't mix sport and politics. Fair enough, except nobody has cancelled Ukrainian flags from the Australian Open!


Russian fans attending Novak Djokovic’s demolition of Andrey Rublev at the Australian Open on Wednesday night were detained by police at Melbourne Park after allegedly threatening security.

A fan brandishing a flag bearing Russian President Vladimir Putin’s image was among four people police interviewed on Wednesday night following the incident outside Rod Laver Arena.




The group of fans gathered on the stairs between two of Australia’s iconic tennis stadiums, Rod Laver and Margaret Court Arenas, to make a provocative political statement.

In another incident, a patron was photographed while sitting among Serbian fans supporting Novak Djokovic wearing a black T-shirt with the “Z” that has become a pro-war symbol in support of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

Russian or Belarusian flags, or clothing with the “Z” symbol, were specified by tournament authorities as banned items under a crackdown after they caused offence in the initial stages of the grand slam.

Supporters have flouted the policy previously but the incidents on Wednesday night, including the group of four men brandishing flags with Russian insignia with one bearing the image of Putin, are the most serious breaches yet.

“Four people in the crowd leaving the stadium revealed inappropriate flags and symbols and threatened security guards,” a Tennis Australia spokesperson said on Wednesday night.

“Victoria Police intervened and are continuing to question them. The comfort and safety of everyone is our priority and we work closely with security and authorities.”

Tennis Australia said last week: “Our initial policy was that fans could bring them in but could not use them to cause disruption. Yesterday we had an incident where a flag was placed courtside.

“We will continue to work with the players and our fans to ensure the best possible environment to enjoy the tennis.”

The sport has cracked down on recognising the two nations following the invasion of Ukraine in February, with players from the two countries banned from some leading events.

Wimbledon issued a blanket ban of Russian and Belarusian players, while the nations are prevented from competing in team competitions including the recent United Cup in Australia.

Other global sports have gone further by banning Belarusian and Russian athletes from all competitions.

There could be further attention on Russian and Belarusian athletes in Melbourne this weekend, as two players from Belarus, Victoria Azarenka and Aryna Sabalenka, could play each other in the women’s final.

There was disquiet in some circles of Australian politics when players from the two nations were allowed entry to compete throughout regular tournaments across the nation this month.

Rublev and Australian Open semi-finalists Karen Khachanov of Russia, Azarenka and Sabalenka are competing without recognition of their nations.





Instructions to Australian Open officials for enforcement of the tournament’s ban on Russian and Belorusian flags.

Khachanov, who will play Greek Stefanos Tsitsipas in a semi-final on Friday night, drew the ire of Azerbaijan officials for statements related to a contested Armenian conclave.

The Russian, who derailed Nick Kyrgios’ bid for the US Open title last September, wrote the messages on a television camera lens as he was leaving the court following a fourth round win.

(Probably hidden behind a Paywall, but)- Australian Open 2023: Russian fans detained at Melbourne Park after provocative political statement


Novak Djokovic' dad was among the pro-Russian crew, and was heard to say "Long live Russia". Shocking.


Ukraine demands Novak Djokovic’s dad be BANNED from the Australian Open for posing with Putin fans

• Ukraine ambassador has called for Srdjan Djokovic to be banned
• He joined flag-waving pro-Putin Russian fans at the Australia Open
• The tournament favourite's father has been warned about his conduct

FULL- Novak Djokovic: Ukraine demands Australian Open ban for dad for posing with Russian Putin fans | Daily Mail Online

Russia outlaws Meduza in attempt to stamp out independent news

Russia has declared the news outlet Meduza an “undesirable organisation”, in effect outlawing one of the country’s best-known sources of independent reporting on the Kremlin and war in Ukraine.

Meduza, founded by Russian journalists in Riga, Latvia, in 2014, was declared an undesirable organisation by the general prosecutor’s office on Thursday for “posing a threat to the foundations of the Russian Federation’s constitutional order and national security”.

The ruling is meant to obstruct the outlet’s continued reporting on Russia, by threatening its correspondents, sources and donors with fines or criminal prosecution for continuing to produce journalism from the country.

Snip

In a public letter, journalists on the Russian-language outlet vowed to continue working, despite the restrictions.

“We would like to say now that we are not afraid and we do not care about the new status – but this is not so,” the letter read. “We are afraid for our readers. We are afraid for those who have been cooperating with Meduza for many years. We are afraid for our loved ones and friends.

“Nevertheless, we believe in what we are doing. We believe in freedom of speech. We believe in a democratic Russia. The stronger the pressure, the tougher we resist it.”

TBH, I find Meduza to be of higher quality than the Moscow Times. Of course it's anti-Putin slant is apparent, but it is not hidden under a cloak. Has the Moscow Times been declared 'Media non grata' too I wonder?

Originally Posted by S Landreth

“We are afraid for our readers. We are afraid for those who have been cooperating with Meduza for many years. We are afraid for our loved ones and friends.

“Nevertheless, we believe in what we are doing. We believe in freedom of speech. We believe in a democratic Russia. The stronger the pressure, the tougher we resist it.”

Brave stance! Keep up the good work as dangerous as it is in a nation where there is only one truth that being the truth as defined by the powerful.