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  1. #2226
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    IAEA - International Atomic Energy

    Yesterday Ukraine’s Khmelnytskyy Nuclear Power Plant (KhNPP) lost all access to the electricity grid for more than 9 hours due to military attacks in the country, forcing it to temporarily rely on diesel generators for back-up power. http://bit.ly/3TBuLtW

    During the power loss, KhNPP's two reactors were shut down, halting electricity delivery. @rafaelmgrossi: "This was a very concerning development. It shows the potential nuclear safety and security risks facing all of Ukraine's nuclear facilities during this terrible war
    “What contemptible scoundrel stole the cork from my lunch?”

  2. #2227
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    Would they say the same if it was a Russian missile?
    Russia is 100% to blame for that missile landing in Poland. If Russia was not attacking civilian targets so close to the border, it would have never happened.

  3. #2228
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    Would they say the same if it was a Russian missile?
    Put it this way, if the Russian fuckers wouldn't have invaded Ukraine without provocation the this wouldn't have happened.

    Simple. Even for you.



    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    $105,000,000,000. I wonder how many Big Macs that would buy for the homeless? Or schools, or hospitals.
    Or to keep one of the world's most threatening countries in line - cheap as chips.

  4. #2229
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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    Or to keep one of the world's most threatening countries in line - cheap as chips.
    Well worth the money.

  5. #2230
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    Where too from here? There will eventually be a settlement of some description. The Russians behind close doors know they have bitten off more than they can chew and the Russian armed forces General staff is now in no doubt the Russian army is no match for NATO. Any hubris they once had has disapeared with losses to an inferior force numerically, supplied by NATO.
    There is no doubt Russians will need to live with a heavily reduced standard of living if it remains isolated from the west.
    The question is what can both sides live with. The USA cannot go on bearing so much of the cost and the E.U. will never step up to the plate. The minimum that I can see is to have UN supervised elections in Crimea to determine its fate and if it votes to stay with Russia so be it. The Russians will have to give up all other ukrainian territory.
    The frozen Russian money and assets will go to the reconstruction of Ukraine. Putin will come out of possibly as "the saviour of Crimea" should the vote go Russias' way. The Ukrainians will be offered NATO membership and fast tracked admittance to the E.U. as "compensation." A partial lifting of sanctions until Ukraine has been compensated and war crimes addressed.
    In any case the west cannot allow a weakened Russian army to regroup until it has a stable democracy, and yes it will come, driven by younger Russians. The future will remain bleak for Russia until Putin and his cronies have gone. The west will not allow him to rise and threaten Europe again. Putin has gambled and was dealt Aces and eights.
    This fight is not just about winning back Ukrainian territory from the Russians. It is a demonstration to the Chinese in how far the west is prepared to go to prevent a totalitarian states' territorial ambitions and the cost to that state in doing so. It is also paying now what appears to be a high price in the hope of not paying a lot more in a conflict with China in the future.
    What do others think?

  6. #2231
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    without provocation


    ^ I think the Donbass will stay with Russia too. Otherwise, dunno. If Crimea is provided with water, and the Russian speaking population given some statutory rights, I certainly don't have a problem with Zapo and Kherson reverting to Ukrainian sovereignty- but I'm not Vlad.

  7. #2232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Cow View Post
    The minimum that I can see is to have UN supervised elections in Crimea to determine its fate and if it votes to stay with Russia so be it.
    That can not work, Hugh. The population of Crimea has been completely perverted by the Russians. Most of the Ukrainians fled Crimea and lost their homes and business there back in 2014. The Russians turned Crimea into resort, and many of the wealthy Muscovite's bought homes there.

    Crimea must be fully liberated and the Russians that moved there post 2014 need to be sent packing. That is the only option at this point, and the same for the Donbass.

    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    I think the Donbass will stay with Russia too. Otherwise, dunno. If Crimea is provided with water, and the Russian speaking population given some statutory rights, I certainly don't have a problem with Zapo and Kherson reverting to Ukrainian sovereignty- but I'm not Vlad.
    You live in a fantasy land.

  8. #2233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Cow View Post
    The question is what can both sides live with.
    Always comes to this HC but there is a prerequiste. Get some serious peace talks underway. Not there yet.

  9. #2234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    Get some serious peace talks underway.
    Why on earth would Ukraine want to do that with Russia still on its soil? It is winning the war.

  10. #2235
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    Why on earth would Ukraine want to do that with Russia still on its soil? It is winning the war.
    Having participated in a war let me say, there are no winners. The Ukraine may be "winning" but in doing so the Ukraine is suffering big time. So is Russia. In the end, the war will end when both sides want to stop their suffering. Basically will be a political decision.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.

  11. #2236
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    Russia-Ukraine war: Zelenskiy dismisses Nato’s suggestion missile that hit Poland was Ukrainian – as it happened

    Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, has said he is convinced that the missile was not Ukrainian. Speaking to reporters, Zelenskiy said he had received reports from the command of Ukraine’s armed forces and air force and “cannot but trust them”.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/nov/16/russia-ukraine-war-live-news-emergency-g20-meeting-after-russian-made-missiles-land-in-poland


    Ever the clown.

  12. #2237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    The Ukraine may be "winning" but in doing so the Ukraine is suffering big time. So is Russia. In the end, the war will end when both sides want to stop their suffering.
    I do not think that the Ukrainian people will accept anything less than the complete ejection of Russian forces from its sovereign territory.

  13. #2238
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    How an American Survived Hiding From the Russians in Kherson for 8 Months

    KHERSON, Ukraine — He stayed indoors to evade Russian patrols, watching movies on his laptop. On sunny days, he strolled in a small, walled courtyard. Afraid to be seen, he peeked cautiously from behind curtains, watching as Russians moved in across the street.

    He is Timothy Morales, an American English teacher, who hid from the Russian military and secret police through the entire eight-month occupation of the city of Kherson in southern Ukraine, afraid that his nationality had made him a target. He emerged in public only after the Ukrainian Army liberated the city last week.

    “I had fleeting moments of despair,” Mr. Morales said in an interview in a central square in Kherson, where he now walks openly with ribbons in yellow and blue, the Ukrainian national colors, tied to his tweed coat. “But I knew at some point this day would come.”

    The thud of artillery fired toward the city from Russian positions across the Dnipro River still rattles windows, and Kherson remains a grim and dark city, without electricity, water or heating. Most of its residents fled months ago, and the retreating Russians took with them anything of value they could carry.

    Beginning at dawn, many of the remaining civilians form gigantic lines to get bread or to fill plastic jugs with water. Not until Tuesday did the first convoys arrive with humanitarian aid, their trucks parked in the square to hand out boxes of flour, soap, wipes and goodies like instant milkshake mix.

    But for Mr. Morales, 56, a former college professor, the worst was behind him — no more anxious cat-and-mouse games with the Russians. Raised in Banbury, England, he had lived for years in Oklahoma City teaching English literature, and had opened an English-language school in Kherson before the Russian invasion in February.

    In the chaotic, early days of the war, as Russian tanks battled with the few Ukrainian troops in the region and a scrappy but quickly overrun volunteer defense force, Mr. Morales became trapped behind Russian lines.

    He tried once to escape on a highway to the north, he said, but turned back when he saw tanks firing on the road ahead. He managed to send his 10-year-old daughter to safety, traveling with his former wife, but could not make it out himself.

    “I didn’t want to risk it with my passport,” he said of the gantlet of Russian military checkpoints.

    He had done nothing illegal, under the laws of any nation. But the Kremlin has cast the United States and its allies, which are arming Ukrainian troops, as the real enemy in this war, blaming them for its battlefield setbacks. Mr. Morales feared that Russian troops would detain him merely for being American.

    He became a survivor of — and furtive witness to — Russia’s assault, its harsh occupation and its failed effort to assimilate parts of Ukraine and root out any opposition.

    The Russians swept into Kherson in early March, and soon soldiers patrolled the streets and officers of the Federal Security Service, the main successor agency to the K.G.B., searched for members of a pro-Ukrainian underground guerrilla movement.

    Life for Mr. Morales contracted to two apartments — his and his former wife’s — furtive walks between the two sites, and the courtyard, a pleasant space with cherry and walnut trees behind high walls, hidden from view from the street. For two months, he said, he didn’t dare venture beyond the courtyard.

    Relatives of his former wife, who is Ukrainian, brought food, and sometimes he shopped at a grocery store where he knew the clerk, a teenager he trusted would not betray him because of her pro-Ukrainian views. The shopping trips were an exception to his generally cloistered life.

    There was a close call. In September, he stepped into the courtyard and saw Russian soldiers pointing rifles through the wire mesh of a gate. He dashed back inside, locking the door behind him.

    Soon, a search party arrived. A neighbor yelled through the door that he had no choice but to open up. He did, and came face to face with an officer from the Federal Security Service, also known by its Russian initials, F.S.B.

    Mr. Morales, who speaks Russian but not well enough to pass as a local, told the officer that he was an Irishman named Timothy Joseph, taught English in the city and had lost his passport. The secret police left. The neighbor, an older woman, helped with the ruse, telling the secret police they had no reason to suspect him.

    “That sort of changed my perspective,” Mr. Morales said. “Before, I was careful. Then I became paranoid.” The questioning by the F.S.B., he said, was “the highlight, or the lowlight,” of his ordeal. He said he escaped only because “they weren’t the cleverest people in the world.”

    He fled to another apartment and did not return to the site of the search until after the city’s liberation, lest the secret police return.

    He passed the time watching several hundred movies he had downloaded onto his laptop before the invasion.

    When he walked the streets, he feared meeting acquaintances, particularly among older people, who seemed less keenly aware of the danger of the Russians and who would sometimes yell out friendly greetings — putting him at grave risk. No friends or neighbors betrayed him.

    From hiding, he managed to resume teaching English online, using the internet connction of a neighbor to connect with students elsewhere in Ukraine and other countries. “It kept me sane,” he said of being able to work online, though he had no means to receive payment.

    He became worried when he saw a Russian, perhaps a civilian administrator in the occupation government, move his family into an apartment abandoned by fleeing Ukrainians in a building across the street, raising the risk that he would be discovered.

    But over time, he also noted something that was becoming obvious to other residents of Kherson: The Russian Army was unraveling. Discipline was breaking down, soldiers were appearing more disheveled, and more often they were driving stolen local cars rather than military-issued vehicles.

    “Over time, they got scruffier and more hodgepodge,” he said.

    In the final month, he noticed that soldiers who had stolen expensive cars, like BMWs or Mercedes-Benzes, had taken these vehicles by barge away from Kherson, farther from the front line. The disappearance of the expensive looted cars, he said, “gave me hope.”

    In the week before liberation, he was cut off from news after the electricity went out. On Friday, he saw a car drive by with a Ukrainian flag flapping from an antenna. “I knew the Russians were gone,” he said.

    Mr. Morales joined the celebration in the city’s central square on Friday, greeting the Ukrainian soldiers as they entered the city without a fight, driving pickups and jeeps. However happy he is for the city’s liberation, he said, he plans to leave now.

    “I need to put some space between myself and what happened here,” he said.

    nytimes.com

  14. #2239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    Having participated in a war let me say, there are no winners
    Agree entirely.

  15. #2240
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    Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, November 16
    Nov 16, 2022 - Press ISW


    Russian sources and proxy officials are flagrantly touting the forced adoption of Ukrainian children into Russian families. Prominent Russian milbloggers began circulating a multi-part documentary series on November 9 featuring several Ukrainian children from Donbas after being adopted into Russian families. The documentary series claims that Russian officials have evacuated over 150,000 children from Donbas in 2022 alone. It is unclear exactly how Russian sources are calculating this figure, and Ukrainian officials previously estimated this number to be 6,000 to 8,000. Head of the Chechen Republic Ramzan Kadyrov additionally stated he is working with Russian Federation Commissioner for Children’s Rights Maria Lvova-Belova to bring “difficult teenagers” from various Russian regions and occupied Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts to Chechnya to engage in “preventative work” and “military-patriotic education.” Lvova-Belova has continually advocated for deportations and adoptions of Ukrainian children and herself adopted a child from Mariupol. Forced adoption programs and the deportation of children under the guise of vacation and rehabilitation schemes likely form the backbone of a massive Russian depopulation campaign that may amount to a violation of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide and constitute a wider ethnic cleansing effort, as ISW has previously reported.

    Institute for the Study of War

  16. #2241
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    Ukraine tells allies it may not be able to recover from more Russian attacks on energy systems

    The Ukrainian government is warning Western allies that it is anticipating increased Russian attacks on its energy infrastructure in the coming days and that Kyiv does not have enough replacement parts to bring heat and power back online if those occur, according to two congressional officials and one Western official briefed on U.S. intelligence.


    Ukrainian officials have in recent days asked their American counterparts and more than half a dozen European countries for assistance preparing for a prolonged period with limited electricity and gas — a scenario Kyiv expects to complicate fighting on the ground and displace civilians, the officials and an adviser to the Ukrainian government said.

    Ukraine needs key components like generators, pipes and valves to repair its infrastructure. Kyiv is currently attempting to fix the damaged infrastructure, but they fear that continued attacks by Russia could make it nearly impossible to keep up, according to a senior U.S. official familiar with the Ukrainian government’s thinking.

    The new warnings, relayed to lawmakers this week through classified intelligence reports, came as Russia launched missiles on the Ukrainian capital Tuesday, hitting apartment buildings and knocking out electricity — just days after Russia retreated from the strategic city of Kherson. Parts of Kyiv still didn’t have power Wednesday.

    The warnings from Kyiv over the last week underscore the level of anxiety among top Ukrainian officials about the coming winter months and the potential ramifications of sustained damage to its infrastructure. An unreliable energy sector could have deadly consequences, Ukrainian officials say. In recent conversations, they’ve added that it could halt food production and transport operations — critical services needed to support military operations.


    “This is one of the most critical issues we’re discussing with the Americans and Europeans right now,” the adviser to the Ukrainian government said, adding that some Ukrainians have already fled the country in fear that the energy crisis will only grow worse. “The winter will be really tough.”


    A spokesperson for the National Security Council did not immediately respond to a request for comment.


    Over the last several months, Russian attacks have hit a slew of Ukrainian energy installations,


    leaving citizens with little access to water and electricity. A widescale attack by Russia in October left millions of households without power. Ukrainian officials have said that about 30 percent of the country’s power stations have been destroyed as a result of the attacks.

    Millions of Ukrainians have for weeks operated with little or no electricity. Earlier this month, Ukrainian officials said they would implement rolling blackouts in some parts of the country in order to stabilize the grid before winter.


    The concerns over energy come as the Ukrainians continue to advance on the battlefield and as Russia begins to launch counterattacks in Kyiv. U.S. officials have calculated that the situation on the ground in Ukraine could grow more dangerous as Russia continues to lose ground.


    The U.S. has for years engaged with Ukraine through the Department of Energy to provide technical expertise on the production, storage and transportation of energy in the country, particularly during the winter months.


    Top congressional Republicans, likely to be in control of the House come next year, have suggested that the U.S. should re-evaluate its aid to the besieged ally. Some GOP lawmakers have indicated that a so-called “compromise” could include a continuation of the military assistance but a scaling-back of economic aid.


    Democrats have raised concerns about the possible cuts to economic assistance, arguing it could strain Ukraine’s ability to rebuild its infrastructure and get the power grids back online. Lawmakers briefed on the situation said Putin is shifting his goals toward a political and economic destruction of Ukraine given his army’s widespread failures on the battlefield.


    “If we don’t support Ukraine both militarily and economically, we are playing into Putin’s hands,” said Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.). “It seems as if Republicans are searching for some way to appease the Trump wing of the party on Ukraine by creating a false distinction between military and economic aid. That distinction only exists in politics. It doesn’t exist on the ground in Ukraine.”

    Ukraine tells allies it may not be able to recover from more Russian attacks on energy systems - POLITICO

  17. #2242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Cow View Post
    the E.U. will never step up to the plate
    This old chestnut again . . . what a load of utter bullshit, HC. The EU has pumped more money in to modernising and raising the Russian standard of living than your beloved US. That a madman like Putin would be willing to destroy it all was hardly foreseeable.


    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    I think
    There's your first problem, you don't.
    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    I'm not Vlad
    But you wish you were, eh. Well, maybe before or at the beginning of the war.




    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    The Ukraine may be "winning" but in doing so the Ukraine is suffering big time.
    You've also not fought a war in your own country, the US was never in danger of being attacked and defeated, occupied and destroyed. Ukraine was and is, 'suffering' to throw the warmongers out is hardly unbearable when you're fighting for your very existence.

  18. #2243
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    I do not think that the Ukrainian people will accept anything less than the complete ejection of Russian forces from its sovereign territory.
    And rightfully so but there are other ways to negotiate the removal or as you prefer "ejection" of all Russian military but as I said until direct talks between both parties start the war will continue.

  19. #2244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    The Ukraine may be "winning" but in doing so the Ukraine is suffering big time.
    Yes. But the fact that according to opinion polls well over 80% of the Ukraine population are in favor of continuing the war, no matter the cost, until Russia is out of Ukraine, including Crimea, should tell you something. Seeing, what was going on in occupied areas, proves there is no alternative.
    "don't attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by incompetence"

  20. #2245
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    You've also not fought a war in your own country, the US was never in danger of being attacked and defeated, occupied and destroyed. Ukraine was and is, 'suffering' to throw the warmongers out is hardly unbearable when you're fighting for your very existence.
    No I haven't but doesn't change the point, war will continue until peace talks begin between Russia and the Ukraine.

    Until one has watched the death and suffer by all sides of war close up and in person, frankly you will never understand the imperative of bringing a war to an end via peace talks.

  21. #2246
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers View Post
    Yes. But the fact that according to opinion polls well over 80% of the Ukraine population are in favor of continuing the war, no matter the cost, until Russia is out of Ukraine, including Crimea, should tell you something. Seeing, what was going on in occupied areas, proves there is no alternative.
    If the Ukraine offered, let's say, would not join NATO as one example and Russia accepted this and removed troops, I think the vast majority of Ukrainians would be all for the deal.

  22. #2247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers View Post
    Yes. But the fact that according to opinion polls well over 80% of the Ukraine population are in favor of continuing the war, no matter the cost, until Russia is out of Ukraine, including Crimea, should tell you something. Seeing, what was going on in occupied areas, proves there is no alternative.
    Basically 'Live Free Or Die' . . . is the same as the New Hampshire motto except for in reality without fat guts and undereducated halfwits.

  23. #2248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    If the Ukraine offered, let's say, would not join NATO as one example and Russia accepted this and removed troops, I think the vast majority of Ukrainians would be all for the deal.
    We had that and it resulted in the russian war of aggression, Ukraine is presently fighting off. No, the only way to safety for Ukraine is NATO membership. The people in Ukraine are well aware.

  24. #2249
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    The time for slogans is over TO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    The time for slogans is over TO.
    Indeed. It is time for action on the battlefield.

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