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  1. #26
    Member Samuel's Avatar
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    Also, billionaires obviously don't make their money from a job like the middle class do — who then pay income tax.

    Billionaires just move money around to where they want it to work for them.

    Musk is an example of someone who has done well with the hundreds of millions he made selling paypal to ebay.

    It's a good thing the government didn't take like 70-90% of his profits (like they did before JFK) — Musk wouldn't have been able to start his great new companies.

  2. #27
    Im bored AF Backspin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers View Post
    As soon as he sells shares, he will have to pay taxes on the gains. There may be years when he pays nothing, in other years it will be a lot.

    His "funding secured" claim was the most blatant act of securities fraud in the last 50 years.

    SEC charges Tesla CEO Elon Musk with fraud

    SEC charges Tesla CEO Elon Musk with fraud

  3. #28
    Im bored AF Backspin's Avatar
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    Will the Real Tesla Founder Please Stand Up?

    Martin Eberhard's lawsuit against Tesla Motors and Elon Musk reads like the script to a daytime soap opera. But by accusing Musk of forcing him out of the company and attempting to "rewrite history" to claim credit for founding the company, Eberhard raises some interesting questions, not the least of which is, who really founded Tesla?

    A lot of people globally think that Tesla is founded by South African billionaire Musk. However, not many know that Tesla had two founders and none of them is Elon Musk. The California-based electric automaker was founded in July 2003 by two people named Martin Eberhard and Marc Tarpenning as Tesla Motors.

    Not Elon Musk, these two people co-founded Tesla | Business News

  4. #29
    Im bored AF Backspin's Avatar
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    Did Elon Musk found PayPal?

    Elon Musk did not start PayPal. The company started by Peter Thiel, Luke Nosek, Max Levchin, and Ken Howery was Confinity - a software company that was working on security software for Palm Pilots. PayPal was a product that they developed and launched a few months before Elon Musk started X.com, an online banking company. The two companies, who were competitors of sorts, merged a few months later and used the X.com name. This was later changed to PayPal. Close enough that he may be considered a founder in some people's eyes.

    During his short-lived tenure, Musk made the decision to switch PayPal's servers, but the rest of the company's board didn't agree. While en route to Australia for a holiday, he was ousted and replaced by Peter Thiel.

  5. #30
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    It is not really relevant who started Tesla and Paypal. Elon Musk is who made both of them what they are.

  6. #31
    Thailand Expat panama hat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    What one earth happened to that, in this so called Democracy we live in? We are more unequal now than the Robber Baron era.
    True, just look at Russia and China . . . the difference between billionaires and peasants is almost nothing


    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers View Post
    With Tesla Elon Musk has single handed shifted the car industry in the direction of electric cars. Nobody can do more for society than that.
    I'd disagree . . . many car manufacturers were heading in that direction, it's just that Tesla received massive federal funds to do so

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    I'd disagree . . . many car manufacturers were heading in that direction, it's just that Tesla received massive federal funds to do so
    Subsidies were available to everyone. Just produce electric cars. ICE producing companies did not move.

  8. #33
    Member Samuel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    I'm glad he's rich. But can't he pay as much tax as his secretary? His fellow space cowboy Bezos is no different. It just seems morally wrong to me, and thoroughly undemocratic.
    As soon as he sells shares, he will have to pay taxes on the gains. There may be years when he pays nothing, in other years it will be a lot.
    Now, the dems want to go after Musk's capital gains before he has even realized them (sold).



    Elon Musk rips Democrats' billionaire tax plan | TheHill

    Tesla and SpaceX CEO Elon Musk ripped the Democratic proposal for an annual tax on billionaires’ investment gains on Monday as lawmakers consider the tax as a way to fund the party’s multitrillion-dollar reconciliation package.


    Musk, who as of Monday had the highest net worth on Forbes’s list of billionaires, replied to a tweet featuring a photo of an email template constituents can send to their lawmakers to oppose the tax.


    The letter, which is meant to be addressed to a congressional lawmaker, says, “I expect you to oppose the Wyden proposal to tax unrealized capital gains.”


    “I anticipate that any new unrealized capital gains taxes will slowly make their way down to middle class retirement investments over the next several years. It will start with billionaires, then eventually millionaires, then the modest investments will get hit possibly within a decade,” the letter adds.


    Musk appeared to agree with the contents of the letter, replying in a tweet, “Exactly. Eventually, they run out of other people’s money and then they come for you
    To a young liberal in college "tax the rich" as much as you can probably sounds like a good idea.

    And, the dems today seemed to be controlled by naive ideologues.

    Taxing “unrealized capital gains" is a ridiculous idea and hopefully the likes of Manchin and Sinema block it.

    -------------



    Bloomberg

    “The Democrats are so desperate to raise taxes that they are now proposing to tax money the American people haven’t even made yet,” McConnell said Monday of the plan that Democrats are considering to levy taxes on the assets of billionaires and others with high incomes. “The next visionary startup founder could have to sell away ownership prematurely just to pay Uncle Sam.”
    Democrats' terrible idea: Taxing profits that don't exist

    It makes sense to entice rich people to take a risk with their money and fund startups and other entrepreneurial ventures that employ so many working-class people. Otherwise they will just put their money in tax-free muni bonds and clip coupons as they sip margaritas on some tropical island.


    But why take the risk at all, if the Democrats pass the “unrealized” idea? It would force people to pay a tax on their investments that have increased in value, even if they didn’t cash those investments out.

  9. #34
    Chinese spy sabang's Avatar
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    Yes, I distinctly remember how bad a place America was when the rich actually coughed up as much tax as their secretaries. It was the envy of the world. It sure isn't now.

  10. #35
    Member Samuel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    Yes, I distinctly remember how bad a place America was when the rich actually coughed up as much tax as their secretaries. It was the envy of the world. It sure isn't now.
    Well, if one were to compare say a secretary working for a small company and the tax she pays

    and one of Musk's companies which will substantially increase the tax base of the community where it is located due to sales tax paid by those who work there and the popping up of businesses to serve the increase in prosperity of the community who then also pay taxes.

    Sure the secretary pays a tax rate that is shown on a pay stub and musk can't show you his pay stub, but....

  11. #36
    Chinese spy sabang's Avatar
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    Without the secretaries and other proles there would be no Musk company, or any other organisation. You might say it is symbiotic.
    If your view of society is just big dog eat small dog, there will be no more society soon enough. Only big dogs, and prey.
    If your view is that there is a Social contract and we are all in this boat together, then that is sustainable.
    A society in which the dividends only go to the already rich is absolutely not sustainable, and neither should it be.

  12. #37
    Member Samuel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    Without the secretaries and other proles there would be no Musk company, or any other organisation.
    absolutely agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    A society in which the dividends only go to the already rich
    Also, agree.

    Though, at least 56% of Americans own stock and do receive actual "dividends" from the companies each year.

    Another third of Americans are invested in the stock market through their 401ks.


    What Percentage of Americans Owns Stock?


    WASHINGTON, D.C. -- With the bull stock market continuing, it is fair to ask what percentage of Americans are personally invested in the market.


    Thus far in 2021, Gallup finds 56% of Americans reporting that they own stock, based on polls conducted in April and July. This is similar to the average 55% recorded in both 2019 and 2020, and the average of 55% Gallup has measured since 2009.

  13. #38
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    Let's Go!



  14. #39
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  15. #40
    Member Samuel's Avatar
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    Good man, Manchin — on taxing "unrealized gains":

    Elon Musk to Congress: Drop the billionaire tax. It will only mess with '''my plan to get humanity to Mars''' | Fortune

    The loudest Democrat critic is West Virginia senator Joe Manchin, who told reporters, “I don’t like it. I don’t like the connotation that we’re targeting different people.” He also praised billionaire's contribution to society by creating jobs and through their philanthropic pursuits.

  16. #41
    Im bored AF Backspin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel View Post
    Now, the dems want to go after Musk's capital gains before he has even realized them (sold).





    To a young liberal in college "tax the rich" as much as you can probably sounds like a good idea.

    And, the dems today seemed to be controlled by naive ideologues.

    Taxing “unrealized capital gains" is a ridiculous idea and hopefully the likes of Manchin and Sinema block it.

    -------------
    Who cares. Tesla and all of Musks money losing companies are a product of the Federal reserves QE and zero interest rate policies.

    His companies are all designed to harvest tax credits and pump stock prices subsidized by the Federal reserve

  17. #42
    Member Samuel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    Tesla and all of Musks money losing companies are a product of the Federal reserves QE and zero interest rate policies.
    yes: "we are not in kansas anymore".

    the financial wizzards of the Fed and their partners around the world are doing their best to prevent a derivative collapse, a crypto currency collapse, etc.

    So far, so good.

    But, who knows.

    Now, they are trying to adjust the world to the Trump/Boris policies of "fuck the corporatist gangsters who love the commies" controlling things as long as they make money.


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