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  1. #1
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    US will share nuclear submarine technology with Australia in new defense partnership

    ASHINGTON — The United States will arm Australia with nuclear submarine technology as part of a new defense partnership announced Wednesday, one of many steps that President Biden is taking to strengthen alliances as a bulwark against China.

    The agreement includes the United Kingdom, and it will also involve closer cooperation on cybersecurity and artificial intelligence. The centerpiece, however, is the decision to make Australia one of a handful of nations to field submarines powered by nuclear reactors.

    “Our nations will update and enhance our shared ability to take on the threats of the 21st century, just as we did in the 20th century — together,” Biden said from the White House, where he was flanked by video screens featuring Prime Ministers Scott Morrison of Australia and Boris Johnson of Britain.

    Morrison described it as a “next generation partnership, built on a strong foundation of proven trust” that will help advance “the cause of peace and freedom.”

    The agreement — known as AUKUS, an acronym of the three countries’ names — does not give Australia nuclear weapons. But the technology will enable the country’s submarines to travel farther and more quietly, increasing their capabilities in a region where tensions with China are on the rise.

    Naval disputes are already common in the South China Sea, which Beijing has claimed as part of its territorial waters, and Taiwan has raised alarms about aggression byChina, which considers the island a renegade province.
    Adding to the combustible mix, North Korea and South Korea conducted ballistic missile tests this week as diplomatic talks involving the two countries remained stalled.

    A senior administration official, who requested anonymity to discuss the announcement before its unveiling, stressed that “this partnership is not aimed or about any one country.” However, it comes against the unmistakable backdrop of Biden’s sweeping efforts to confront China’s expanding economic and military ambitions.

    “The future of each of our nations — and indeed, the world — depends on a free and open Indo-Pacific enduring and flourishing in the decades ahead,” Biden said.

    In addition to AUKUS, the president has emphasized regional collaborations such as the Quad, which consists of the U.S., Australia, India and Japan. Biden plans to host a summit with those countries’ leaders at the White House next week.

    China has bristled at American partnerships that could serve as a counterweight to its influence.

    “Forming closed and exclusive ‘cliques’ targeting other countries runs counter to the trend of the times and deviates from the expectation of regional countries,” Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian said this week. “It thus wins no support and is doomed to fail.”

    Australia has six aging submarines with diesel engines, and it was under contract to buy a dozen new ones from France. Now Australia plans to scrap that project, which was beset by cost overruns, in favor of working with the U.S. and Britain to develop a nuclear fleet.

    Morrison said the submarines would be built in Adelaide, on his country’s southern coast.

    France expressed dismay that Australia was ditching its contract and that it was left out of the agreement with the U.S. and U.K.

    “The American choice to exclude a European ally and partner such as France ... shows a lack of coherence that France can only note and regret,” said a joint statement by the French ministers of foreign affairs and the armed forces.

    Jeffrey Lewis, a professor at the Middlebury Institute of International Studies, expressed surprise that the U.S. was sharing such sensitive technology and that Australia would pursue such expensive military hardware.

    “For a country with a relatively small defense budget like Australia,” he said, “the important question isn’t what the submarine can do but what you’re giving up in terms of opportunity cost.”

    Jennifer Moroney, an expert on security cooperation who ran the Rand Corp.'s first office in Australia, said China’s expanding reach in the region has prompted new military investments there.

    “Australia needs to build up its defensive capabilities,” she said. “Submarines are just a piece of that.”

    It’s unclear how many submarines will be built and how quickly Australia could begin operating them. Their development will take years, and it will be a challenging undertaking. Even though Australia is a leading producer of uranium, it has never operated nuclear power plants.

    The three allies plan to spend the next 18 months examining how their collaboration on the submarine project will work.

    The only other time the U.S. has shared nuclear submarine capabilities with another country is when it assisted the U.K. with its own fleet in 1958.

    The senior administration official described the technology as “extremely sensitive” and said the White House viewed the agreement with Australia “as a one-off” exception.

    Australia would be the first country without nuclear weapons to have nuclear-powered submarines, a decision that some analysts said raised arms proliferation concerns. Other nations may try to follow in its footsteps by enriching uranium for naval reactors, creating more avenues to develop material needed for nuclear bombs without the safeguards provided by regular inspections.

    “In the cost benefit analysis, the risks to the nonproliferation regime are very large,” said James Acton, the co-director of the nuclear policy program at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

    “I would find it hard to believe that the benefits to Australia and the U.S. and anyone else outweigh the risks.”

    U.S. will share nuclear submarine technology with Australia - Los Angeles Times

  2. #2
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    That will get the ol' chinkies whingeing no doubt.

  3. #3
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    The frogs are furious as well because they lost a $40 billion contract to build diesel powered subs for the Aussies.

  4. #4
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    Slightly misleading headline, its a joint US/UK design and build - RR Derby and BAE in Barrow are involved.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by malmomike77 View Post
    Slightly misleading headline
    Not really. The US gave the UK the same technology.

  6. #6
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    The froggies are indeed furious. Still its their fault, their estimated costs have grown dramatically to $90Bn + for 12 diesel electrics and they have procrastinated over the % built in the Oz dockyards for over 4 years now - som nam na.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    Not really. The US gave the UK the same technology.
    The US helped in the 50's with the UK first nuclear powered sub programme. They since provided the tech for the missiles and delivery system but these Oz subs are non-Nuc armed but Nuc propelled which RR have been building for decades.

  8. #8
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    “The American choice to exclude a European ally and partner such as France ... shows a lack of coherence that France can only note and regret,” said a joint statement by the French ministers of foreign affairs and the armed forces.
    Yep. Note and regret about all you can do. C'est la vie.

  9. #9
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    Interestingly, the use of US gigs, tooling and design in the build does cause issues, one that you'd not normally even give a thoughts to but it boils down to the US specs and tooling all being imperial as opposed to metric which is used by the UK and OZ - caused quite a few problems in Barrow mixing measurement systems

  10. #10
    Thailand Expat David48atTD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by malmomike77 View Post
    The US helped in the 50's with the UK first nuclear powered sub programme. They since provided the tech for the missiles and delivery system but these Oz subs are non-Nuc armed but Nuc propelled which RR have been building for decades.
    ... and Australia's South East Islands (New Zealand) won't let them visit there.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post

    “Forming closed and exclusive ‘cliques’ targeting other countries runs counter to the trend of the times and deviates from the expectation of regional countries,” Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian said this week. “It thus wins no support and is doomed to fail.”
    China's Foreign Ministry spokesman really is a bag of hot air, full of hyperbole and just plain idiotic statements which even a high school student could see through.

    Anyone with any brains can see that China's expansionism and outright intimidation run counter to the trend of the times.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by David48atTD View Post
    (New Zealand) won't let them visit there.
    NZ are a bit part player at best and not worth protecting for their wool

  13. #13
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    The frogs are furious as well because they lost a $40 billion contract to build diesel powered subs for the Aussies.
    Yeah but their subs probably only go in reverse.

  14. #14
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David48atTD View Post
    ... and Australia's South East Islands (New Zealand) won't let them visit there.
    They weren't even asked to participate.

  15. #15
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Aaaaaaaaaaaand the chinky whinging begins.

    Apparently them interfering with everyone around them isn't "damaging regional peace and stability" but a defensive agreement is.



    BEIJING, Sept 16 (Reuters) - China's foreign ministry on Thursday decried a new U.S.-Britain-Australia security partnership that will involve helping Canberra acquire nuclear-powered submarines, saying the three countries are damaging regional peace and stability.

    China decries U.S., Britain, Australia security partnership | Reuters

  16. #16
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Fucking hell, the chinky international whingeing department has been busy today.

    China slammed that the European Parliament's adoption of new EU-China strategy, which made unwarranted comments on China's political, economic, social and foreign policies, and accuses China on issues related to Hong Kong, Xinjiang and Taiwan based on prejudice and lies, Spokesperson of the Chinese Mission to the EU said on Thursday.

    China firmly opposes the EU's interference in China's internal affairs and violation of basic norms in international relations, as well as the EU's commitment on relevant issues, the spokesperson said.
    China slams European Parliament's adoption of new EU-China strategy - CGTN


  17. #17
    Thailand Expat David48atTD's Avatar
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    Why Australia is teaming up with the US and UK to build nuclear-powered submarines?

    Nuclear-powered submarines can stay quieter for longer.

    To put it simply, nuclear-powered submarines are often quieter than diesel-powered alternatives.
    There are exceptions to this rule, particularly when subs are running on electricity, but stealth has been listed by the Prime Minister and the Opposition Leader as a key reason for this deal with the US and the UK.

    They have become so quiet that in 2009, British and French nuclear ballistic missile submarines reportedly collided in the Atlantic Ocean, unaware of each other's presence.


    Horses for courses

    Another advantage is nuclear-powered submarines can go faster, and stay underwater for longer.
    But they are often bigger in size, which makes them less nimble in shallow coastal waters.

    So, there are strategic advantages and disadvantages.

    Nuclear-powered submarines would allow the Australian Navy to patrol more of the Indo-Pacific region for longer, which could be particularly handy at a time of competing territorial claims for strategic waters.

    Lots more HERE


    US will share nuclear submarine technology with Australia in new defense partnership-us-navy-virginia-block-v-cutaway
    Credit
    Someone is sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago ...


  18. #18
    Thailand Expat VocalNeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David48atTD View Post

    Nuclear-powered submarines would allow the Australian Navy to patrol more of the Indo-Pacific region for longer, which could be particularly handy at a time of competing territorial claims for strategic waters.
    That really won't work unless they can be seen. The competing country doesn't know they are there. They have to visit and be visible in other countries for the first year.
    However just Aus. having them doesn't mean they subsequently have to go anywhere. Just leave port, submerge and stay on the bottom for 3 months. No one knows where they are!

    Royal Navy visiting South China Sea allows their subs to get acoustic profiles of Chinese submarines.
    Better to think inside the pub, than outside the box?
    I apologize if any offence was caused. unless it was intended.
    You people, you think I know feck nothing; I tell you: I know feck all
    Those who cannot change their mind, cannot change anything.

  19. #19
    Hangin' Around cyrille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    The frogs are furious as well because they lost a $40 billion contract to build diesel powereed subs


    How very French.

    Would they have had cute headlights and a roof that let in water?

  20. #20
    Chinese spy sabang's Avatar
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    Australia's only submarine base is in HMAS Stirling, in the far south west of the map below-




    Can any of our TD military strategists notice a slight issue with this?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    in the far south west of the map below-
    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    Can any of our TD military strategists notice a slight issue with this?
    Starting with the fact that there is no map below...



    Into the wine again?

  22. #22
    Chinese spy sabang's Avatar
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    Well, there is most certainly a map in my post, but here ya go sherlock-

    Defence Annual Report 2004-05 :: Appendices :: ADF Units and Establishments

  23. #23
    Member Samuel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by malmomike77 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by David48atTD View Post
    ... and Australia's South East Islands (New Zealand) won't let them visit there.
    NZ are a bit part player at best and not worth protecting for their wool

    Is it because NZ is playing footsie with China — or a case of aging hippy leaders who want a nuke-free world?


    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Apparently them interfering with everyone around them isn't "damaging regional peace and stability" but a defensive agreement is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Latindancer View Post
    Anyone with any brains can see that China's expansionism and outright intimidation run counter to the trend of the times.
    The problem is the west has let China get away with demolishing "1 country: 2 systems" in HK without any consequences, and the west is afraid to refer to Taiwan as anything other than "Chinese Taipei."


    If the West wishes to keep Taiwan free, they'll need to speak clearly and openly to the CCP soon, IMO.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel View Post
    Is it because NZ is playing footsie with China — or a case of aging hippy leaders who want a nuke-free world?
    Wrong on all counts, FaRT.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel View Post
    Is it because NZ is playing footsie with China — or a case of aging hippy leaders who want a nuke-free world?
    Yeah, those would be the only two possibilities, eh?




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