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  1. #126
    Chinese spy sabang's Avatar
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    France and Germany should just open up to the BRI- the economic benefits thus engendered will make them end up the Winners, not the perpetually war minded Anglo axis.

  2. #127
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    Germany 555, they are soon to be sucking on Putins pipe, you still haven't worked it out yet?

  3. #128
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    Russia is also part of the BRI. Eurasia is one very very big, contiguous land mass- with most of the world's population, most of it's economy, and most of it's growth. Everywhere else is just an island.

  4. #129
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    ^ it is but you forget that some very large parts are not commie affiliated, but you are right, the EU is weak and its much lauded independence is joke when you consider how it has tied itself to Putin. Still the EU is making noises about tech independence from China.

  5. #130
    Chinese spy sabang's Avatar
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    Trade and communication/ information technology increasingly control the world now, military arsenals less and less so. That's my thesis, anyway.

  6. #131
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    ^ agreed, that is why the west are slowly waking up to the fact they allowed too much manufacturing dependence on the Chinks. BTW surely your thesis is flawed given the Chinks penchant for military bling?

  7. #132
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    This is better reading, been to quite a few when in country.

    https://www.rusi.org

  8. #133
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    Klondyke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by malmomike77 View Post
    Germany 555, they are soon to be sucking on Putins pipe
    Any other idea how they should survive the coming winter even with the gas prices hitting sky?

    (they are selber schuld with Mutti's Energie-Wende)

  9. #134
    still dealing with idioms
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    Just a couple of things I picked up from read some of the posts... Once the Nuclear Sub option was decided, the french nuclear subs need to be refueled every 7 to 10 years which made Australia dependent on returning them to France for refueling which was impractical, whereas the U.S/Brit subs the fuel will last approx 35 years, pretty well the life of the Sub. Australia may lease Subs in the intervening period as nothing is set in concrete on this deal. The up side is much easier integration with the U.S. and Brits using their hardware and software.
    Last time I looked NATO doesn't mean Western pacific Indian Ocean and SCS organisation on top of which, please refresh my memory what countries already bear the biggest burden of Nato?
    Why would Australia entertain German Diesel subs dependant on Vlads oil?
    Economic blow back from the froggies? Australia is already running a 3 billion trade deficit with France.
    Support from the E.U.? Australia is running almost a 30 billion trade deficit with them. Who will hurt who?
    On another note, the latest news is China wishes to apply for membership of the latest incarnation of the CPTPP. Australia has already told them they will vetoe their application as long as China applies economic sanctions to Australia's exports.

  10. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Cow View Post
    Why would Australia entertain German Diesel subs dependant on Vlads oil?
    Perhaps in the meantime, the Australians - with the help of German spacecraft research - could find the way how the German Diesel can also work well with another "non-Vlad" Diesel Oil?

  11. #136
    Thailand Expat HermantheGerman's Avatar
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    The so called english-speaking democracy are doing what they do best: "Fuc*ing Up Foreign Policy".
    In the mean time, the Chinese must be laughing their balls off and are securing "TRILLIONS" of dollars in Afghanistan.

    There must be some cartoon out there somewhere showing baby AKUS in a Bathtub playing rubber ducky
    -the french outside the bathtub crying because they are not allowed to come in
    -and the Chinese holding a rubber ducky (made in China) sneaking off to Afghanistan laughing and rubbing their hands

  12. #137
    Thailand Expat Saint Willy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by malmomike77 View Post
    President Macron is running for election in a very tight race with the far right.
    This is what it boils down to

  13. #138
    Thailand Expat HermantheGerman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Willy View Post
    This is what it boils down to
    What did he say? Boiling water for tea?
    Congrats at least you used 7 words for a post this time.

  14. #139
    still dealing with idioms
    Hugh Cow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    Perhaps in the meantime, the Australians - with the help of German spacecraft research - could find the way how the German Diesel can also work well with another "non-Vlad" Diesel Oil?
    You do realise that particular comment was tongue in cheek.

  15. #140
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    au revoir

    US will share nuclear submarine technology with Australia in new defense partnership-aukus-deal-3656000-jpg

  16. #141
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Busy thread here which as usual has wandered so far off topic it is hardly recognizable as having fuck all to do with nuclear subs in Australia.

    What is clear, the US is making a strategic move to focus 100% on what they percieve as the only threat to US world dominance, CHINA! The French along with the rest of Europe are being thrown under the bus mainly because their use by date is far long ago expired. Russia is no longer a threat to US world dominance nor is the Middle east so makes sense to finally say, "hasta luego baby".

    World dominance requires Bucks and Guns. The sub deal just a part of the guns aspect. Actually a small part when you consider Japan, Korea, Taiwan, and ASEAN nations.

    Like it or not the US is, for the moment, the numero uno and they intend to remain so.

    Btw, best guess is the subs will be operational in 2042 so a bit early to get too excited.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.

  17. #142
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    But they won't succeed in subduing China- too much economic momentum, and a population overwhelmingly in solidarity with their government. I'm afraid it's a Bipolar world order pretty much from now, and both powers will have their primary zones of influence. The US will basically remain militarily dominant for the foreseeable future, but it's dominance does not extend to Chinas backyard.

    I frankly do not see much direct military conflict emerging between the nations- depending on where, it would likely only be a No-win situation for one country or t'other. The ongoing battle will be fought with Diplomacy and $$$.

    Oh, the Topic- the aussie subs are just a part of the great game. Doubt I'll even be around when they start sinking, but the domestic political noise over spiralling costs will be an interesting sideshow. Also the squeals from the other services when they realise the bloated naval budget necessitated by these nuclear propelled subs, and ancillary costs, is biting into their own.

  18. #143
    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
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    ...from the BBC:

    Mr Morrison's comments came after French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian told France 2 television there had been "lying, duplicity, a major breach of trust and contempt" over the deal.

    He said France's ambassadors to the US and Australia were being recalled to "re-evaluate the situation", but that there had been "no need" to recall the ambassador to the UK, which he described as a "third wheel". Mr Morrison's comments came after French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian told France 2 television there had been "lying, duplicity, a major breach of trust and contempt" over the deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    The French along with the rest of Europe are being thrown under the bus mainly because their use by date is far long ago expired.
    ...the French FM's comments were right: Britain's sell-by date is next to that of the French on the calendar...
    Majestically enthroned amid the vulgar herd

  19. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    Busy thread here which as usual has wandered so far off topic it is hardly recognizable as having fuck all to do with nuclear subs in Australia.

    What is clear, the US is making a strategic move to focus 100% on what they percieve as the only threat to US world dominance, CHINA! The French along with the rest of Europe are being thrown under the bus mainly because their use by date is far long ago expired. Russia is no longer a threat to US world dominance nor is the Middle east so makes sense to finally say, "hasta luego baby".

    World dominance requires Bucks and Guns. The sub deal just a part of the guns aspect. Actually a small part when you consider Japan, Korea, Taiwan, and ASEAN nations.

    Like it or not the US is, for the moment, the numero uno and they intend to remain so.

    Btw, best guess is the subs will be operational in 2042 so a bit early to get too excited.
    Agree 100% with the analysis.
    May I add with sats , drone subs and thermal recog the subs will be redundant about 42 seconds after payment as will most manned surface craft. Admirals always fighting the last war I was guest at mayport on I think nImitz in 1980 could have been he JFK (the Enterprise ws I think at Bremerton for a refit)

    Anyway after NATO naval exercises in Atantic Nato matelots invited to see your amazing sailing aiport.
    It was alco free 5000+ complement , mess decks the size of ballrooms
    We elarned a plane had slipped a hawser on teh rough rde back to Jacksonville , no one blinked an eyelid at a plane costing equivaent of a European Hospital in tem times.

    As long as US can print the greenbacks with impunity the Chinse will be on the backfoot, teh day teh confidece goes...well it's like finding your wife's gone off with another woman... oh the peace and quiet
    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille View Post
    the recognition of mediocrity?

  20. #145
    Chinese spy sabang's Avatar
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    One Diplomatic cost that is yet to be factored is that "We" the west may have just stuck the nail in the coffin of having any sort of lasting hegemony over ASEAN. Indonesia and Malaysia have expressed grave reservations over Australia going nuclear, and there is an understandable wariness internationally about an exclusive 'Anglo only' military pact.

    We have hardly reassured our allies about us being reliable partners either- rather mercurial opportunists who might throw you under the bus at any time. Taiwan take note.

    My last pontification- seems to me the real national winner from these shenanigans will be...... New Zealand! By remaining nuclear free, confirming AUKUS nuclear equipment will still not be allowed on their land and waters, and basically staying well clear of the great US led game, they are in Chinas good books- and will no doubt be rewarded accordingly. I can see a fair bit of Kiwi produce being substituted for aussie on the China import list in coming years.
    Last edited by sabang; 20-09-2021 at 08:06 AM.

  21. #146
    Thailand Expat panama hat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    Indonesia and Malaysia
    Although they are both complaining, Malaysia still remembers how Australians gave their lives against the Indonesians in Borneo. Indonesia, on the other hand . . . yes, not pleased


    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    understandable wariness internationally about an exclusive 'Anglo only' military pact.
    Yup, it just stands out like dog balls

    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    Taiwan take note.
    I'd agree. The US won't do much if China invades Taiwan as China can . . . fight back.

  22. #147
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    I love Australia and Australians but
    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    our allies
    is moot

    Leaving aside the lost generations the penal colony and mistreatment of indigenous peoples Australia has only really ever had masters
    1 First the Crown backed by the redcoats who were sacking PMs just 46 years ago
    2 The Crown was re endorsed when Hawke offered okkers independence they clutched to the Crown
    3 As the Crown showed in 1940 Singapore it could or would not bleed to defend OZ it's been USA ever since, despite the Brisbane riots and exporing mel Gobson
    4 Internally there a semblance of democracy but the media moguls Murdoch the Miners Reinhart etc all compliant to a global agenda where the ordinary citizen has little i any say
    5 Pine Gap the foreign masters eyes.Like Woomera Oz just a base for bigger powers
    6 Time will tell whether US boys and girls will queue up to die for Australia just as ANZACS sacrificed from Gallipoli to WW2 to Korea to Vietnam.

    It is not party politics I'm sure Turnbull or even Rudd would have sided with USa versus a brutal expansionist China it s the upper fringe the Islands and ASEAN that could be treated more diplomatically. SCOMO just reinforces the old white European optics.Who knows in 20-30 years Oz may be a republc like USA led b a woman born n Vietnam, Afghanistan or New Zealand time will tell.
    Half UK cabinet are asians Kurds,Jews Muslims Hindus, US too, Australia will need to evolve and luckily has the space resources and safety to do so if well educated and led.

    I may be wrong but of US really needs a presence be it materiel , spy staions , ports, refuelling cash will flow and Oz s full of minerals still, many untouched.

    However even the best nuclear subs wont stop terrorism or few drones or dolphins towing virus across the Torres straits, I think it's too late to stop the Kiwis who will actually be a force for good bringing much needed culture and civilization to some of the more backward places like QLD, they may be the cane toads of enlightenment.Real ones of course not Teutonic -malay spiced kiwis.
    Last edited by david44; 20-09-2021 at 08:28 AM.

  23. #148
    In Uranus
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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    The US won't do much if China invades Taiwan as China can . . . fight back.
    China will not invade Taiwan. It would be putting too much at risk, and victory is by no means assured, even with the US on the sideline. If it invaded and was humiliated, it would be the end of the CCP.

  24. #149
    Chinese spy sabang's Avatar
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    Well, we convicts have certainly chosen our Masters for now! Same as the Old Boss really- just a slightly funny accent. As the Demographics of Australia inevitably change, the old die out, and Minster Wright is replaced by Ministar Wong- well, this anglocentric shift will be debated for decades to come. We're all about nostalgia in the angloverse, to the point of still fighting last centuries wars.

    China will not invade Taiwan.
    Agreed. They will gradually encircle them instead, like a boa constrictor.

  25. #150
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    But those subs would not have been able to match the Chinese. They are trying to develop ways of stabilizing the region, which means they need to match all the powers in Indo-Pacom.

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