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    Thailand Expat russellsimpson's Avatar
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    What"s Next in the Meng Wanzhou Extradition Trial?

    The controversial case of the Huawei executive sparked a diplomatic crisis. But where do the legal proceedings stand?
    On December 1, 2018, Huawei CFO Meng Wanzhou was taken into custody by Royal Canadian Mounted Police officers while transiting at Vancouver Airport. She has remained on Canadian soil ever since, awaiting the results of extradition proceedings that could send her to stand trial in the United States for alleged fraud in violation of U.S. sanctions against Iran. The oft-extended extradition trial is set to finally wrap up this August, at which point the presiding judge, Associate Chief Justice Heather Holmes of the British Columbia Supreme Court, will decide whether to issue a stay of the proceedings or commit the extradition to its final phase. If she elects the latter, all that stands between Meng and a trip to the Eastern District of New York is the ultimate authorization of the Canadian justice minister.


    The genesis of the case stems from comments Meng made to a representative of British bank HSBC at a Hong Kong teahouse in 2013, pertaining to an allegedly Huawei-dominated entity known as Skycom. Skycom was found to be attempting to sell U.S. computer gear to the Islamic Republic. The level of control Huawei exercised over Skycom is disputed by the defense counsel, though they do acknowledge a certain amount.


    At August’s hearing, look for Meng’s defense team to make one last push for the case to be stayed. Expect them to revisit some prior arguments contending an abuse of process stemming from the lackadaisical record keeping process pertaining to the arrest, improper politicization by former U.S. President Donald Trump in linking the case to a potential trade deal with China, and an absence of U.S. jurisdiction in light of the fact pattern giving rise to the allegations. Meng’s team has previously objected that Meng’s alleged conduct did not meet the U.S.-Canada double criminality requirement. That issue was decided in favor of the Crown last year.


    Meng’s attorneys have additionally applied to introduce new evidence from HSBC that they believe will further elucidate that their client was a victim of abuse of process. The exact nature of that material has yet to be made public. A final decision on admittance will be rendered near the end of this month. One potential possibility is that Meng’s team will attempt to demonstrate that HSBC was fully aware of the dealings with Iran, which would help attack the contention the bank was defrauded. Then the question would turn to the importance and truthfulness of the 2013 comments in affecting HSBC’s banking decisions and whether or not a prima facie case of fraud stands in the eyes of the judge.


    The jurisdictional hook relied on by U.S. law enforcement is that transactions resulting from this conversation were cleared in U.S. dollars via HSBC’s U.S. subsidiary. The U.S. Supreme Court has yet to definitely rule on whether dollar clearing is sufficient to establish jurisdiction over a foreign entity, since they have not been directly posed such a question. However, the 2018 case Jesner v. Arab Bank cast some doubt in dicta about whether dollar clearing alone would be enough to establish jurisdiction over a foreign entity. Despite that, both the SEC and DOJ, which are usually the organizations that handle these types of crimes, make it clear in their resource guide to the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act that such actions are sufficient to confer jurisdiction.


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    Regardless of the outcome of this particular case, setting a precedent in the extradition context for dollar clearing jurisdiction over high-profile foreign citizens may encourage a further push for certain nations to distance themselves from the dollar. Otherwise, the immense proportion of greenback transactions could give rise to a jurisdictional scope untouched by geographical boundaries. Russia has already announced it will remove all dollar-denominated assets from its wealth fund. The question of dollar clearing jurisdiction is one that continues to engender debate among legal scholars, with the defense referring to several law professors to support their position there is no reasonable connection to the United States.


    The history of Canada-U.S. extradition proceedings does not paint a rosy picture for Meng. Though the 2006 Canadian Supreme Court case U.S. v. Ferris spelled out a role for the extradition judge to weigh some evidence in determining the plausibility of a case, that has rarely taken place on the ground. Between 2006 and 2017, only 16 out of 198 cases resulted in successful challenges at the committal stage. The pattern in those cases was not weak evidence, but rather no evidence at all pertaining to certain elements of the alleged crimes. The likelihood of the justice minister terminating the proceedings is likewise not high. In the decade starting in 2008, only nine of the extradition requests from Canada to the U.S. were terminated in this manner. Most of those decisions stemmed from considerations such as the health of the accused or potentially disparate sentencing guidelines in the United States.


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    In fact, Canada’s overall extradition rate is known for being comparatively high, pegged at around 90 percent. This has led to dissatisfaction among some legal scholars, especially in the wake of the extradition of Professor Hassan Diab to France in 2014 based on a handwriting sample that did not appear to match his script. That case was subsequently dropped by judges in France due to lack of evidence (the appeals court has since overturned, calling Diab back to stand trial). For purposes of comparison, India’s success rate in securing extraditions has been estimated as low as 36 percent.


    Extradition in Canada is also conditioned on its Charter of Rights and Freedoms, a bill of rights added to the Canadian Constitution in 1982 that guarantees certain civil rights to all in Canada, including freedom from unreasonable search, seizure, or arbitrary detention as well as the guarantee of habeas corpus. Meng’s team asserts that the confiscation of her electronic devices constitutes unreasonable seizure. Her defense further argues that the deletion of officer emails relevant to determining if the FBI was ultimately responsible for ordering such seizure and collection of identifying information constitutes negligence.


    On the politicization point, there is some precedent for Canada refusing extradition on interference grounds; however, the hill to climb is quite steep. The 2001 case U.S. v. Cobb resulted in the extradition judge issuing a stay of proceedings despite a prima facie case being presented against the defendants, which is typically the threshold for passing the case on to the minister. In that instance, the judge that would preside over the case in the United States suggested he would give the absolute maximum prison sentence at his disposal. Furthermore, the prosecuting attorney made appalling comments insinuating that the accused might become victims of homosexual rape in prison. Although Trump’s remarks teasing a possible intervention if the circumstances were ripe certainly seem to manifest at least a disregard for judicial independence, it is unclear based on the dearth of available precedent if that would be enough to stay proceedings. Trump’s statement has never been repudiated, but the fact he is no longer in office could also desalinate that line of attack.


    There is also a contingent of academics and public servants within Canada that has voiced displeasure with the diplomatic situation Canadian authorities have found themselves in by complying with the U.S. request. Perhaps most notably, Canadian Ambassador to China John McCallum was fired in 2019 for saying that it would be in Canada’s interest if the United States dropped the extradition demand. Many Canadian media outlets have portrayed the subsequent arrests of Canadians Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor in China as retribution for Meng’s detention. China and Canada had actually begun preliminary negotiations surrounding a mutual extradition treaty in 2016, something that now appears to be a shot in the dark to materialize at any point in the near future after Ottawa suspended its extradition treaty with Hong Kong. It also remains to be seen if this spat will hinder efforts at cooperation between U.S. and Chinese law enforcement agencies, a goal that was initiated in order to help handle counternarcotics, cybercrime, and capital flight operations.


    In terms of Huawei’s business prospects, the firm initially benefited from a wave of domestic support in the wake of Meng’s detention, allowing revenue to remain mostly solid. The longer time horizon of U.S. blacklisting has started to curtail growth in certain sectors, leading the telecom giant to announce it will focus more on software development in the short run, as that sphere is further outside the bounds of direct U.S. influence. Huawei’s 76-year-old founder (and Meng’s father) Ren Zhengfei has stated he is mentally prepared for the possibility that he may never see his daughter again, but has urged her not to give in to the accusations.


    If Meng ends up on U.S. soil, she will face up to 30 years in prison on bank and wire fraud charges. Her case would then be in the hands of the Eastern District of New York to try and decide, where proceedings would undoubtedly draw a media frenzy. Based on the current case calendar, we are approaching the long-awaited finish line of the extradition proceedings.


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  2. #2
    Thailand Expat russellsimpson's Avatar
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    The stakes are high here. It sounds like an end date is nearby in July. Trudeau managed to get a few words in on this at the G7.

    That was just an update I found.

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    Quote Originally Posted by russellsimpson View Post
    The controversial case
    Except it isn't controversial, quite cut and dried.

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    Thailand Expat russellsimpson's Avatar
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    It was cut and dried until 'our' former POTUS suggested that the case might be tied generally to Sino-American trade and politics. That put it on a whole different level. If Biden would drop the case and if the two Micheals could be sent home then we could end this whole mess. I'm not optimistic. You seem to have a good handle on the case PH.

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    Quote Originally Posted by russellsimpson View Post
    It was cut and dried until 'our' former POTUS suggested that the case might be tied generally to Sino-American trade and politics.
    Yup, the orange buffoon . . . you're quite right

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    Thailand Expat Backspin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by russellsimpson View Post
    It was cut and dried until 'our' former POTUS suggested that the case might be tied generally to Sino-American trade and politics. That put it on a whole different level. If Biden would drop the case and if the two Micheals could be sent home then we could end this whole mess. I'm not optimistic. You seem to have a good handle on the case PH.
    In my opinion, its mostly political. But its still partly China's fault. The Chinese are the ones who wound their economy as tight to the Anglo countries as they could. They didn't have to. They could have focused more on regional trade and built a new eastern bloc. If they couldn't see that this day would come then they are delusional.

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    Thailand Expat Saint Willy's Avatar
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    Is there not already a thread about this topic? Why start a new one?

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    Thailand Expat russellsimpson's Avatar
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    You find the other thread then KW. Good luck.

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    Thailand Expat Saint Willy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by russellsimpson View Post
    You find the other thread then KW. Good luck.
    https://teakdoor.com/world-news/1888...t=Meng+Wanzhou (Canada arrests Huawei CFO at US request)

    Didn't take long.

  10. #10
    Thailand Expat russellsimpson's Avatar
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    Meng strikes deal with U.S. justice officials


    I failed to find the ongoing thread re. Ms. Wanzhou. If a mod could find it that would be great.



    OTTAWA -- U.S. Justice Department officials and Huawei executive Meng Wanzhou have reached a deal to resolve the criminal charges against her, allowing the woman who has been at the centre of a years-long major geopolitical case to enter into a deferred prosecution agreement and be released, under certain terms.


    Meng, appearing virtually in a New York courtroom as part of the proceedings, pled “not guilty,” and will be released on a personal recognizance bond, with the charges against her set to be dismissed as of Dec. 1, 2022, four years to the day when she was taken into custody at Vancouver International Airport in 2018.


    A U.S. justice official said during the proceedings that once the court approved the deal, American authorities would “promptly” be notifying the Canadian government that they are withdrawing their extradition request, and sparking what is set to be the beginning of the end to a nearly three-year legal and diplomatic saga.


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    A second court appearance at the B.C. Supreme Court is expected to occur at 2 p.m. PST, where the extradition proceedings against Meng are expected to be halted, likely resulting in the Chinese telecom giant CFO being able to leave Canada.


    Meng has been under house arrest in Vancouver since she was first taken into custody at Vancouver International Airport in December 2018 on a U.S. warrant related to the company’s business dealings in Iran.


    Meng, who is the daughter of Huawei founder Ren Zhengfei, has claimed her innocence throughout the process, and has been fighting the extradition through Canadian courts.


    Huawei Canada and Justice Minister and Attorney General David Lametti’s office declined to comment on Friday ahead of the U.S. court appearance

    Huawei's Meng Wanzhou strikes deal with U.S. justice officials | CTV News





    There is no way in the world that the Americans would agree to this without a back channel deal being in place to free are two Michael's . Break out the champagne Canada, three long years.

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    So what has actually been achieved, except unnecessarily pissing off the Chinese?
    Ms. Meng certainly did not lack for her native cuisine during her enforced exile in Vancouver.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    Ms. Meng certainly did not lack for her native cuisine during her enforced exile in Vancouver.
    She should have been eating off a tin plate and is lucky Canada's a civilized country that believes in the rule of law, unlike her homeland.

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    Well if she believes that too, she'll stay in Hongcouver won't she?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    Well if she believes that too, she'll stay in Hongcouver won't she?
    There's a big difference between being ranked high in the party, and being a dirty gwai lo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    So what has actually been achieved, except unnecessarily pissing off the Chinese?
    It doesn't take much to piss off the whining fuckwits in Beijing. She deserved to be extradited and face trial - yet another example of how China is run by a vile bunch of neanderthals

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    U'mmm, why? It just seemed to be part of the high profile anti-Huawei pogrom to me. Well, things have moved on- Huawei makes less mobile phones now, it's market share has been filled by Xiaomi & Oppo- but Huawei profits continue to grow, with more focus on it's core competency of mobile phone technology rather than handsets.

    Just a lot of noise from Trumps trumpet again, but apropos of nothing.

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    The two Michael's who China claimed were not arrested in retribution for Mung Meng are currently on a plane home thankfully. No doubt one of our three resident Chinky sycophants will be here soon to say it was a "good will gesture" by the civilized and fair Chinkys.

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    So you're saying it was basically a prisoner swap?

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    Great news and what a relief. I thought the Chinese would hold onto the two Michaels for a month or so just to make it less obvious that our Canadians were grabbed because of the US extradition order. Obviously they don't care what others think.

    Hats off to the Biden administration for tying the prisoner exchanges together. Excellent work by diplomats in all three camps, there's still hope for negotiations going forward. It's curious that this happened at the same time as the AUKUS stuff.

    For me, having found Chinese policy distasteful for a long time I now find them people to be very suspicious of going forward. Hostage diplomacy, fuck em.
    Last edited by russellsimpson; 25-09-2021 at 09:08 AM.

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    Hostage diplomacy was the arrest of Meng imo, and the arrest of the Michaels tit for tat bullshit. Fuck 'em all, and the orange buffoon that caused this farce.

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    China frees Canadians Michael Spavor and Michael Kovrig after Huawei boss released - BBC News

    Two Canadian nationals have been released from Chinese detention and are flying home to Canada, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has announced.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    So you're saying it was basically a prisoner swap?
    You've lost the plot. Meng had a chance at a fair trial, the two Michael's didn't. They were kidnapped and held hostage.

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    So you're saying it wasn't a prisoner swap?

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    Meng is not truly free by the way, there are conditions on her release until next December.

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    Well, she is Chinese.

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