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  1. #51
    Hangin' Around cyrille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by havnfun View Post
    The church is not the problem, Jesus said the church of Christ is two people together"we are the church" then what happened?
    How tf does that support your contention that 'the church is not the problem'?

  2. #52
    Member havnfun's Avatar
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    my church is me and a connection to Jesus, This is the way its taught in the bible, The so called church of the last 1500 years is nothing but narcissists trying to control people or to gain wealth. that is the problem

  3. #53
    Hangin' Around cyrille's Avatar
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    Oh right.

    So like that 'Irish problems - nothing to do with religion. Middle Eastern problems - everything to do with religion' thing.

  4. #54
    Thailand Expat VocalNeal's Avatar
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    Just thinking. Is it possible the children were the victims of the 1918 Spanish Flu?

  5. #55
    Thailand Expat AntRobertson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by havnfun View Post
    my church is me and a connection to Jesus, This is the way its taught in the bible, The so called church of the last 1500 years is nothing but narcissists trying to control people or to gain wealth. that is the problem
    So you were taught that in the Bible? The same ancient text authored by confused men whose words have no relevance to life now, the same people who turned it into what you claim is the problem?

    Did you think that one all the way through?

    Anyways, tax the churches and give the money to the indigenous peoples they helped to destroy.
    I remain an intelligent,

    educated polymath

    --LatinKaren

  6. #56
    Thailand Expat russellsimpson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elche View Post
    My high school years (late 1970's) and 1980's. Yourself?
    I preceded you by a few years. Graduated form NorKam Secondary. I lived on the North Shore, close to North Hills. It's not a bad place. I lived there for my first seventeen years before heading to UBC. I'm back now completing a very big circle. I hope to hell Kamloops is not going to have a legacy associated with the 215 children. That's ugly beyond description.


  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by helge View Post
    Might not even be doing forced removals enough
    In New Zealand the circle has turned full . . . umm . . . circle, where the department dealing with 'uplifted' children (children taken from parents) has been roundly criticised for years by Maori groups as being racist due to the larger percentage of Maori kids being taken. Well, they were taken because Maori have by far the greatest number of abusive family structures.
    So, the department has now gone through a full change and is staffed by Maori-only in most levels under the motto 'By Maori, For Maori' . . . yet it still includes non-Maori children.

    I wonder who they will blame when they fail (though that's obvious). . . and they will, not because of being Maori, rather by not having the best people doing the job. If it was 'bad' before, it is going to be terrible now.
    Last edited by panama hat; 03-06-2021 at 05:09 AM.

  8. #58
    fully fledged Mutt-packer TheRealKW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by russellsimpson View Post
    hope to hell Kamloops is not going to have a legacy associated with the 215 children. That's ugly beyond description.

    yes, getting a bad reputation would be simply awful, much worse than say having your child stolen from you, placed into state care to have their culture, language and ways besten out of them, then losing contact with said child because they died and were buried in an unmarked and secret grave...much worse!


    #prayforthepoorwhitepeople

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by elche View Post
    The Catholic Church was involved in the running of the school,
    Just as an aside, the Catholic church controlled the residential schools up until 1969, which then the federal government took over which closed the final school in 1996. There were 136 residential schools in Canada and about 150,000 children that attended them who faced physical, sexual and emotional abuse (and death obviously),not mentioning the stripping of their culture, and language from them.

    Then these children grew up, and the vicious circle of abuse, drugs, and poverty pervaded many reserves and still do for many.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by pickel View Post
    Systemic racism may be the cause of poverty and alcoholism in Native communities, but what are social workers supposed to do with children neglected or abused by alcoholic parents?
    This is a very deep issue and I'd highly suggest reading this and the other suggested ones on the right hand side. There is more to it than just social workers taking children.

    How Canada Created a Crisis in Indigenous Child Welfare | The Tyee

  11. #61
    fully fledged Mutt-packer TheRealKW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarilynMonroe View Post
    There is more to it than just social workers taking children.
    Yes, there is. The key phrase Pickel used may have been 'systemic racism', that you quoted.

  12. #62
    Elite Mumbler
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    She didn't answer my question either.

  13. #63
    Thailand Expat VocalNeal's Avatar
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    My son who has some knowledge of such things reckons this is all media over reaction. He reckons the ground penetrating radar report said something along the lines of:
    215 grave-like anomalies and the client (local first nations) went residential school -= children.

    So they told the media and thadah.
    Better to think inside the pub, than outside the box?
    I apologize if any offence was caused. unless it was intended.
    You people, you think I know feck nothing; I tell you: I know feck all
    Those who cannot change their mind, cannot change anything.

  14. #64
    Member elche's Avatar
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    215 children over a time span of over 75 years works out to between 2-3 children/year on average. In defense of the church, let's not forget the fact that we have had 3 major influenza outbreaks during that time frame in 1918, 1957 and 1968 and a handful of minor ones. This was at a time when little could be done and millions died. People are jumping to conclusions that the RC church and administrators were killing children on site. Nothing could be further from the truth.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by elche View Post
    Nothing could be further from the truth.
    So you've dug them up and had a look then?

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by elche View Post
    215 children over a time span of over 75 years works out to between 2-3 children/year on average. In defense of the church, let's not forget the fact that we have had 3 major influenza outbreaks during that time frame in 1918, 1957 and 1968 and a handful of minor ones. This was at a time when little could be done and millions died.
    Explain why they were buried in unmarked graves then?

  17. #67
    Member elche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pickel View Post
    So you've dug them up and had a look then?
    Of course not, but are you suggesting that the church was systematically killing children, chopping off heads in the basement of the school and disposing of the bodies out the back, like a killing field?

    And the unmarked graves? I don't know? But that doesn't explain the deaths. Unmarked graves are not uncommon btw.

    I'm not trying to defend any potential wrong doing. But I'd like to know the causes of death. And I'm finding that we are jumping to conclusions right now.

  18. #68
    Hangin' Around cyrille's Avatar
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    dunno about 'we', but you definitely jumped to a conclusion...

    Quote Originally Posted by elche View Post
    People are jumping to conclusions that the RC church and administrators were killing children on site. Nothing could be further from the truth.

  19. #69
    Member elche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille View Post
    dunno about 'we', but you definitely jumped to a conclusion...
    Are you aware of what the FN leaders of Canada have stated?

    If it's not viruses and diseases taking these children, what is it?
    Last edited by elche; 03-06-2021 at 11:56 AM.

  20. #70
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elche View Post
    People are jumping to conclusions that the RC church and administrators were killing children on site. Nothing could be further from the truth.
    Given the kiddie fiddlers track record in such matters, I suspect nothing could be closer to the truth.

  21. #71
    Hangin' Around cyrille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elche View Post
    Are you aware of what the FN leaders of Canada have stated?
    I'm aware that you actually stated in post 67 that people are jumping to conclusions and then proceeded to jump to a conclusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by elche View Post
    If it's not viruses and diseases taking these children, what is it?
    Hopefully investigations will lead to conclusions.

    What part of that is unclear?

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by elche View Post
    Of course not, but are you suggesting that the church was systematically killing children, chopping off heads in the basement of the school and disposing of the bodies out the back, like a killing field?
    Nobody is suggesting it was that extreme.

    Quote Originally Posted by elche View Post
    Unmarked graves are not uncommon btw.
    Especially when crimes were committed.

  23. #73
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    I saw - some time ago, long before this grizzly discovery - on French TV5 a report by a Canadian state TV about these schools. And about the actions of the former pupils - who are now in their retirement age - to find their real parents, recalling what all they had been through, it was really not a pleasant sighting...

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    I saw -
    Of course you did . . . what a coincidence.

  25. #75
    Thailand Expat russellsimpson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elche View Post
    215 children over a time span of over 75 years works out to between 2-3 children/year on average. In defense of the church, let's not forget the fact that we have had 3 major influenza outbreaks during that time frame in 1918, 1957 and 1968 and a handful of minor ones. This was at a time when little could be done and millions died. People are jumping to conclusions that the RC church and administrators were killing children on site. Nothing could be further from the truth.
    I agree with much of this.



    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille View Post
    dunno about 'we', but you definitely jumped to a conclusion...
    Forever the grammar teacher eh Cy.



    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille View Post
    I'm aware that you actually stated in post 67 that people are jumping to conclusions and then proceeded to jump to a conclusion.
    Yes. We get that.

    The local band has asked the mainstream media to leave them alone to grieve and plan the next move.

    The idea that anyone has the resources to conduct an investigation as to who these children were is dreaming, although the federal government seems to be trying in this Kamloops case. The government has announced 27 million dollars so every reserve in Canada can presumably conduct the search like the one here in Kamloops.

    Native spokespeople have already pretty much told the government to fark off. They will take the money but wish no further federal involvement. Some folks are referring to the graves as a murder scene, which I find to be bizarre. I had a look around the grounds yesterday and saw many orange tents on the scene, so god knows what's going on.

    I have no right to any opinion on the whole circumstance but I am betting that many native leaders will not want the ground above these sites to be disturbed in the least. There are no words for the white men to speak at this point, none at all.

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