Thread: Archeologists Find New Pits at Stalin-Era Moscow Mass Grave

Dozens of new pits have been discovered in a notorious Stalin-era execution site outside Moscow where more than 10,000 political dissidents are believed to be buried, the Kommersant business daily reported Thursday.


The existence of the mass grave in southwestern Moscow’s district of Kommunarka became known when the KGB opened its archives, before abruptly closing them, in the last days of the Soviet Union. Its successor, Russia's FSB, estimates that up to 14,000 people were shot and thrown into mass graves at the Kommunarka firing range between 1937-1941.

Searches that began in 2018 using ground-penetrating radar and an archival Nazi bomber pilot’s photograph of the area had uncovered 87 burial pits. Kommersant reported that archeologists have now discovered 47 additional pits, bringing the total to 134.


“The work on systematizing the list of those executed and correlating it with the discovered pits is still ahead of us,” said Roman Romanov, the head of Moscow’s Gulag History Museum which co-led the investigation.


The Memorial human rights group has opened an information center containing a database of 6,609 Kommunarka firing range victims, including members of the Communist Party elite, diplomats and counterintelligence agents. According to its information based on FSB archives, almost the entire government of the former Soviet satellite country of Mongolia and many Baltic officials were executed there.


Kommunarka was one of three Moscow killing fields used by Stalin’s secret police in the 1930s. The other two include the Donskoye cemetery and Butovo about 5 kilometers south of the Moscow Ring Road, where historians estimate at least 30,000 people were executed during Stalin’s Great Terror in 1937-1938.


The Soviet Union repudiated Stalin after his death in 1953, blaming him for mass imprisonment, executions and policies that led to the deaths of millions from famine.


Still, many Russians credit Stalin with the defeat of Nazi Germany in World War II. Recent public polling showed the dictator’s approval rating hitting all-time highs of 70% and President Vladimir Putin has been accused of attempting to restore Stalin’s image, calling him a “complex figure.”


Archeologists Find New Pits at Stalin-Era Moscow Mass Grave - The Moscow Times

President Vladimir Putin has been accused of attempting to restore Stalin’s image, calling him a “complex figure.”

Total nonsense.

Putin Looks to Make Equating Stalin, USSR to Hitler, Nazi Germany Illegal


Russian legislators are looking to ban people from likening the behavior of the Soviet Army and Joseph Stalin to the actions of Nazi soldiers and Adolf Hitler.


Russia's president, Vladimir Putin, instructed the bill to be introduced after a meeting of the Presidential Council for Culture and Arts in October. Opponents of the legislation have criticized it for infringing on free speech. However, the bill's backers argue it's not about cracking down on what people say but about recognizing Russia's contribution to Hitler's downfall.


"The Soviet army is a liberator, and therefore a benefactor of Europe," Elena Yampolskaya, the chair of the Committee on Culture, said in a statement. "It is possible and necessary to discuss any specific situations, facts, documents. Just not forgetting that the Soviet Union, the Russian people fought the main struggle against the universal evil of Nazism."

Russia's involvement in World War II is a complicated story that puts the country on both the Axis and Allied sides. For nearly two years, Russia collaborated with Germany as both forces moved through Eastern Europe, bringing with them death, destruction, brutal occupation, and the shipping of people away to forced labor and concentration camps.

However, after Germany invaded Russia in 1941, the Nazi regime became an enemy of Russia as its army joined the fight against Hitler. Russia's winter and the army's relentlessness during the Battle of Stalingrad delivered a heavy blow to Hitler's forces and is considered by many historians to be a major turning point in the war in favor of the Allied forces.

The Soviet army was also responsible for liberating Warsaw, Krakow and Auschwitz, the most infamous Nazi concentration camp where more than a million people were killed.


While Russia helped bring release to those suffering in concentration camps at the hands of the Nazis, its leader Stalin is considered one of the most ruthless figures in history. He created the Gulag, a forced labor camp system that imprisoned about 18 million people and subjected them to brutal conditions. After the war, he claimed swaths of Europe for his own and lowered an "iron curtain" down, blocking East Berlin off from the world and starting the Cold War.

Putin has been trying to crack down on criticism of Russia's actions during World War II for years. In 2014, he signed a law that made distorting the Soviet Union's role a criminal offense punishable by up to five years in prison.


"It is our duty to defend the truth about the victory; otherwise what shall we say to our children if a lie, like a disease, spreads all over the world?" Putin said in a speech in January 2020. "We must set facts against outrageous lies and attempts to distort history ... This work is our duty as a winning country and our responsibility to the future generations."

Mark Kramer, director of the Cold War Studies Project at Harvard's Davis Center, acknowledged in 2020 that the heroism of the Soviet soldiers is "undeniable" but said the "much darker side of the Soviet war effort" is also unavoidable. He called it "unfortunate" that Russia only tolerates "glorious images and speeches" and said that a "more even-handed discussion" would be in the nation's best interest.


The bill, which was published in the State Duma's records on Wednesday, blamed the media, including publications in Russia, for making "derogatory" statements about the Soviet Union's role in World War II. It would forbid people from publicly comparing actions of the USSR's military and leaders to those of the Nazi's leadership, including in the media and on the internet.

Its authors said the goal was to put a legislative barrier between "obvious insults to our grandfathers and great-grandfathers," while "preserving space for historical research" and scientific discussions, according to a translation of the bill.


"The family has its black sheep. Can particulars discredit the whole? Never. Good remains good, evil remains evil, " Yampolskaya said in a statement.


Putin Looks to Make Equating Stalin, USSR to Hitler, Nazi Germany Illegal

Originally Posted by misskit

Putin Looks to Make Equating Stalin, USSR to Hitler, Nazi Germany Illegal

Of course he would

Vladimir Putin's paternal grandfather worked as a cook for both Vladimir Lenin and Joseph Stalin,

Putin says grandfather cooked for Stalin and Lenin | Reuters

Admitting achievements under Stalin, Putin, who served in the feared KGB secret police in Soviet times

He has fanboy written all over him

Its amazing what the British manage to airbrush out of history. All of this huffing and puffing the Anglo world does about the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact.

The Anglo-German Naval Agreement (AGNA) of 18 June 1935 was a naval agreement between the United Kingdom and Germany

The Anglo-German Naval Agreement was an ambitious attempt on the part of both the British and the Germans to reach better relations, but it ultimately foundered because of conflicting expectations between the two countries. For Germany, the Anglo-German Naval Agreement was intended to mark the beginning of an Anglo-German alliance against France and the Soviet Union

The Russian govt stays neutral on Stalin. Putin personally denounces him more than he praises him but does both.

He's not exactly laying wreaths at stalins grave



President Emmanuel Macron laid a wreath at Napoleons tomb on the 200th anniversary of his death

Whataboutism is alive and well. Good job Backscuttler Uncle OHOh is proud of you.

Originally Posted by Hugh Cow

Whataboutism is alive and well. Good job Backscuttler Uncle OHOh is proud of you.

Not done yet. Putin brought up Oliver Cromwell.

wiki

Cromwell is one of the most controversial figures in British and Irish history, considered a regicidal dictator by historians such as David Sharp,^[6] a military dictator by Winston Churchill,^[7] a class revolutionary by Leon Trotsky,^[8] and a hero of liberty by John Miltonr. His tolerance of Protestant sects did not extend to Catholics, and the measures taken by him against Catholics, particularly in Ireland, have been characterised by some as genocidal or near-genocidal,^[9] and his record is strongly criticised in Ireland.^[10] He was selected as one of the ten greatest Britons of all time in a 2002 BBC poll.

Originally Posted by Backspin

Not done yet.

Never is with you . . .

Originally Posted by Backspin

Putin brought up Oliver Cromwell.

Ah. Well, that was worth it

[QUOTE=Backspin;4262287]Not done yet. Putin brought up Oliver Cromwell.

wiki

Cromwell is one of the most controversial figures in British and Irish history, considered a regicidal dictator by historians such as David Sharp,^[6] a military dictator by Winston Churchill,^[7] a class revolutionary by Leon Trotsky,^[8] and a hero of liberty by John Miltonr. His tolerance of Protestant sects did not extend to Catholics, and the measures taken by him against Catholics, particularly in Ireland, have been characterised by some as genocidal or near-genocidal,^[9] and his record is strongly criticised in Ireland.^[10] He was selected as one of the ten greatest Britons of all time in a 2002 BBC poll.

/QUOTE]

Going by what has happened in a few catholic schools and orphanages, he probably saved a few children at least.

Originally Posted by misskit

Dozens of new pits have been discovered in a notorious Stalin-era execution site outside Moscow where more than 10,000 political dissidents are believed to be buried, the Kommersant business daily reported Thursday.
The existence of the mass grave in southwestern Moscow’s...

Soviet Union/Russia is one big mass grave. Their flag should have three simple little words R.I.P.

Klongdick
"crickets"

Originally Posted by HermantheGerman

Soviet Union/Russia is one big mass grave

And majority of the found dead bodies were found to be of German origin. What a surprise... How did they get there?

Originally Posted by Klondyke

And majority of the found dead bodies were found to be of German origin.

Oh, Klongdick . . .

Originally Posted by misskit

The Memorial human rights group has opened an information center containing a database of 6,609 Kommunarka firing range victims, including members of the Communist Party elite, diplomats and counterintelligence agents. According to its information based on FSB archives, almost the entire government of the former Soviet satellite country of Mongolia and many Baltic officials were executed there.

You are so incredibly vile and pathetic . . .

Originally Posted by misskit

The Soviet Union repudiated Stalin after his death in 1953, blaming him for mass imprisonment, executions and policies that led to the deaths of millions from famine.

And apologist arseholes like Klongdick praise and love the guy

Originally Posted by HermantheGerman

Soviet Union/Russia is one big mass grave. Their flag should have three simple little words R.I.P.

For idiots like cyrille who's brain has been resting since birth I will spell out the letters.

Rest In Peace