Thread: US, EU, Britain, Canada Impose Sanctions on Chinese Officials Over Uyghurs

Originally Posted by russellsimpson

"The old world order" be

The old world order is basically US hegemony. From 1990 to 2010. The US could pretty much dictate anything it wanted and have sport wars with small countries because nobody would stop them.

The emerging order is a tri polar world. Russia defied the US's aspirations to make a NATO base in Crimea and countered a US sport war in Syria in 2015. And made claims in the arctic

China's shear economic horsepower is too big to be ignored any longer. They have 2 aircraft carriers in service and a 3rd one 25% completed with a nuclear supercarrier in the plans for 2030. They have the belt and road initiative and are trying to push the US navy away from the South China sea.

^ have you considered the geography of what you think the world order is?

Russia and China are stuck in one geaographic area.

Have you considered what happened when previous angagonists tried to project their power beyond their logistical limits? Those supply chains and thier enforcement become increasingly harder to maintain the greater the distance, the easier to curtail.

Originally Posted by strigils

Have you considered what happened when previous angagonists tried to project their power beyond their logistical limits?

They eventually go bankrupt but yeah

Russia and China are stuck in one geaographic area.

Yes. Asia- where most of the World's wealth and population is centred. The place to be- the USA is kinda in outer suburbia.

But putting Russia as a leading member of a tripartite world order is above it's punching weight, and ignores a very significant thing. India. That's the next big thing.

Originally Posted by sabang

Yes. Asia- where most of the World's wealth and population is centred. The place to be- the USA is kinda in outer suburbia.

But putting Russia as a leading member of a tripartite world order is above it's punching weight, and ignores a very significant thing. India. That's the next big thing.

If China acted its economic weight, it would be a bi polar world again. US vs China.

But China doesn't act its economic weight. Russia is the tip of the spear. If Russia didn't stop the Syria war, nobody would have. Russia sure could have used some help. If all China did was send 5 combat jets, then things wouldn't have been so tense. Who sent special ops forces to help Maduro in Venezuela ? Not China. Russia is always playing the spoiler.

Plus Russia has the Eurasian Union which is 4.7 trillion GDP and covers a lot of ground. 14% of the worlds land.

Originally Posted by strigils

Russia and China are stuck in one geaographic area.

Eurasia
Area: 54.76 million km²

Africa
Area: 30.37 million km²

85 out of 149 million km², that's some neighbourhood.


North America
Area: 24.71 million km²

South America
Area: 17.84 million km²

I thought the new world order is going to be as per Orwell?

What is the new world order?


Depends entirely how far down the road one wishes to gaze. China and India are guaranteed a spot, for sure.

Originally Posted by russellsimpson

What is the new world order?


Depends entirely how far down the road one wishes to gaze. China and India are guaranteed a spot, for sure.

India is always spinning it's wheels. They have one aircraft carrier from the Russians (China has one too from the Russians) and a second indigenous carrier that is basically done. But it's still taking forever to get the thing in service.

China might beat India with its 2nd indigenous carrier.

Originally Posted by russellsimpson

China and India are guaranteed a spot, for sure.

Both population and GDP growth suggest either, as you imply.

China has a delivered its proven plan, India not so much.

Seems like a mix between Oklahoma and Sound of Music:-



Xinjiang the musical sings to Beijing's tune of ethnic unity



A new state-produced musical set in Xinjiang inspired by Hollywood blockbuster "La La Land" has hit China's cinemas, portraying a rural idyll of ethnic cohesion devoid of repression, mass surveillance and even the Islam of its majority Uyghur population.

China is on an elaborate PR offensive to rebrand the northwestern region where the United States says "genocide" has been inflicted on the Uyghurs and other Muslim minorities.

As allegations of slavery and forced labour inside Xinjiang's cotton industry draw renewed global attention, inside China, Beijing is curating a very different narrative for the troubled region.

Rap songs, photo exhibitions and a musical -- "The Wings of Songs" -- are leading the cultural reframing of the region, while a legion of celebrities have seemingly unprompted leapt to the defence of Xinjiang's tarnished textile industry.

Beijing denies all allegations of abuses and has instead recast Xinjiang as a haven of social cohesion and economic renewal that has turned its back on years of violent extremism thanks to benevolent state intervention.

The movie, whose release was reportedly delayed by a year, focuses on three men from different ethnic groups dreaming of the big time as they gather musical inspiration across cultures in the snow-capped mountains and desertscapes of the vast region.

Trailing the movie, state-run Global Times reported that overseas blockbusters such as "La La Land" have "inspired Chinese studios" to produce their own domestic hits.

But the musical omits the surveillance cameras and security checks that blanket Xinjiang.

Also noticeably absent are references to Islam -- despite more than half of the population of Xinjiang being Muslim -- and there are no mosques or women in veils.
In one scene, a leading character, a well-shaven Uyghur, toasts with a beer in his hand.

Xinjiang the musical sings to Beijing's tune of ethnic unity (yahoo.com)


Coming soon, to a Cinema near You.

In one scene, a leading character, a well-shaven Uyghur, toasts with a beer in his hand.

I know plenty of muslims that will drink to that.

Originally Posted by OhOh

Both population and GDP growth suggest either, as you imply.

China has a delivered its proven plan, India not so much.

India is a disaster that ppl in the west are trying to will into success because it is a democracy supposedly

Originally Posted by Backspin

ppl in the west are trying to ....

One hopes a civil war is not required.

22 police officers killed, 30+ wounded by guerilla fighters during anti-Maoist raid in India

4 Apr, 2021 10:38

22 police officers killed, 30+ wounded by guerilla fighters during anti-Maoist raid in India — RT World News

Originally Posted by sabang

and there are no mosques or women in veils.



Coming soon, to a Cinema near You.

Just as a matter of interest, similar to Malaysia they don't generally wear veils.
And they're fucking thieves. If you spot those big nose khunts around check your valuables.

Hopefully, there is no human rights abuse of some low castes in India we should worry about...

Originally Posted by OhOh

Truth

chinadaily.com.cn

Don't be so fucking silly.

A nice primer, so you don't need to waste too much time debunking this sinophobic nonsense:-


UYGHUR-XINJIANG EXPLAINED IN FOUR MINUTES


In Articles, Education, Religious Persecution, Xinjiang & Tibet by TechnoOwlOctober 26, 2020


The extremely complex and controversial topic of Uyghurs in China is quickly demystified below. Basically, it’s about three things: separatism, terrorism, and geopolitics.
As for all the claims about human rights violations and genocide: Here are some simple sources:

• United Nations report submitted to the UN Human Rights Council Signed by all Muslim countries in the world

<strong><span style="font-family: Lato"><a href="https://teakdoor.com/redirect-to/?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Fthechinawiki.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2021%2F04%2FU.S.-Admits-to-Using-Uyghurs-in-Xinjiang-to-Destabilize-China.mp4" target="_blank">

1. The crux of the matter is about separatism
   
   • A small fraction of Uyghurs demand their own independent Islamic state. They call it “Turkistan” and want it to be created out of China’s Xinjiang province.
   • No country in the world tolerates separatism and secession.
   
   
2. Separatist demands are not representative of the majority
   
   • Uyghurs represent 45% of Xinjiang’s population. And the separatists are largely rural farmers & peasants with no formal education.
   • Uyghurs in urban areas like Urumqi are secular and typical more educated and they don’t want to live in an Islamic state run by religious extremists.
   
   
3. The US bombs Uyghurs and other Muslims, while demonizing China
   
   • There are thousands of Uyghur terrorists in Afghanistan. Which are in open combat with the U.S. The American solution is to bomb and kill them. As well some have been captured sent to Guantanamo. China’s solution to these terrorists is to arrest them and deradicalize them and provide secular education and job-training.
   • The U.S. has spent around $6 trillion since the start of the War on Terror bombing numerous Muslim countries and created 50 million Muslim refugees over the last 20 years.
   
   
4. Good Jihadists, Bad Jihadists
   
   • Uyghur jihadists in Afghanistan or Syria are bad when they threaten NATO/U.S. military. However, when these jihadists go back to China, they are portrayed by the West as freedom fighters or innocent victims.
   
   
5. U.S. role in creating Uyghur jihadists
   
   • In the 1980s, the U.S. recruited, funded, trained, and armed Islamic militants (“Mujahedeens”) to fight the USSR in Afghanistan. Not surprisingly, thousands of Uyghurs joined this jihad, since Afghanistan shares a border with Xinjiang.
   • See this it as a terrorist organization
   
   
6. Uyghur terrorism in China and outside gets whitewashed by western media
   
   • Uyghur Mujahideens have carried out hundreds of terrorist attacks in China since 1990. These vary from small-scale knife attacks and car attacks to massive riots and destructive suicide bombings.
   • Tens of thousands of Uyghurs went to Syria and joined ISIS and Al Qaeda. They want to come back to China and destabilize the country.
   • A documented list of Terrorist attacks in Xinjiang
   
   
7. China’s anti-terrorism methods are working
   
   • After 25 years of struggles and protests by the secular majority to do something about public safety. China cracked down on Uyghur separatists and terrorists. The result is that there hasn’t been a terrorist attack since 2017.
   • The World Bank (Funding Partner), The International Organization for Islamic Cooperation & 50 Muslim countries sent representatives to evaluate these rehabilitation camps and have approved of the program and found no validity to allegations of abuse.
   
   
8. Combating jihadism is not easy
   
   • No country has found an easy solution to combat jihadism or change the minds of radicalized jihadists.
   • While China could do a better job with due process and transparency, the overall efforts are reasonable and effective.
   
   
9. Muslims and Islam are not oppressed in China
   
   • Xinjiang alone has 20,000+ mosques; and all major cities in China have large mosques, some built hundreds of years ago. There are also 20 million Hui Muslims in China, but they have never been subjected to these efforts.
   
   
10. Uyghurs are moderate Muslims
    
    • Uyghurs have traditionally followed Sufism, a very moderate version of Islam that’s totally different from Saudi Arabia’s Wahhabism.
    • Uyghur women wear beautiful colorful clothes, love to sing and dance, and don’t wear burqas or hijabs. Uyghur tradition even includes mild alcoholic drinks (called Museles).
    • But if you watch the Uyghur separatist women, they are always covered up like the ultra-orthodox sects.
    
    
11. China has helped Uyghurs prosper
    
    • The Uyghur population has doubled in the last 40 years. Uyghurs were exempted from China’s one-child policy.
    • Ethnic minorities get preferential bonuses on the National College Exams
    • Xinjiang’s GDP has 10x in the last 20 years.
    • There are many popular Uyghur actors, dancers, singers, athletes, politicians in Chinese society, and media.
    
    
12. This is all about geopolitics
    
    • Xinjiang is a crucial part of China’s Belt and Road Initiative. Every month, more than 1,000 freight trains go through Xinjiang while transferring goods between China and Europe. Disrupting Xinjiang means disrupting the Chinese economy.
    • The U.S. wants to contain the rise of China and thus is waging a hybrid war. From stirring up internal chaos in Hong Kong and Xinjiang to external chaos via Taiwan and India and to stifling Chinese tech companies like Huawei and TikTok, This is just America’s playbook of ruthless geopolitics.

1. The crux of the matter is about separatism
   
   • A small fraction of Uyghurs demand their own independent Islamic state. They call it “Turkistan” and want it to be created out of China’s Xinjiang province.
   • No country in the world tolerates separatism and secession.
   
   
2. Separatist demands are not representative of the majority
   
   • Uyghurs represent 45% of Xinjiang’s population. And the separatists are largely rural farmers & peasants with no formal education.
   • Uyghurs in urban areas like Urumqi are secular and typical more educated and they don’t want to live in an Islamic state run by religious extremists.
   
   
3. The US bombs Uyghurs and other Muslims, while demonizing China
   
   • There are thousands of Uyghur terrorists in Afghanistan. Which are in open combat with the U.S. The American solution is to bomb and kill them. As well some have been captured sent to Guantanamo. China’s solution to these terrorists is to arrest them and deradicalize them and provide secular education and job-training.
   • The U.S. has spent around $6 trillion since the start of the War on Terror bombing numerous Muslim countries and created 50 million Muslim refugees over the last 20 years.
   
   
4. Good Jihadists, Bad Jihadists
   
   • Uyghur jihadists in Afghanistan or Syria are bad when they threaten NATO/U.S. military. However, when these jihadists go back to China, they are portrayed by the West as freedom fighters or innocent victims.
   
   
5. U.S. role in creating Uyghur jihadists
   
   • In the 1980s, the U.S. recruited, funded, trained, and armed Islamic militants (“Mujahedeens”) to fight the USSR in Afghanistan. Not surprisingly, thousands of Uyghurs joined this jihad, since Afghanistan shares a border with Xinjiang.
   • See this it as a terrorist organization
   
   
6. Uyghur terrorism in China and outside gets whitewashed by western media
   
   • Uyghur Mujahideens have carried out hundreds of terrorist attacks in China since 1990. These vary from small-scale knife attacks and car attacks to massive riots and destructive suicide bombings.
   • Tens of thousands of Uyghurs went to Syria and joined ISIS and Al Qaeda. They want to come back to China and destabilize the country.
   • A documented list of Terrorist attacks in Xinjiang
   
   
7. China’s anti-terrorism methods are working
   
   • After 25 years of struggles and protests by the secular majority to do something about public safety. China cracked down on Uyghur separatists and terrorists. The result is that there hasn’t been a terrorist attack since 2017.
   • The World Bank (Funding Partner), The International Organization for Islamic Cooperation & 50 Muslim countries sent representatives to evaluate these rehabilitation camps and have approved of the program and found no validity to allegations of abuse.
   
   
8. Combating jihadism is not easy
   
   • No country has found an easy solution to combat jihadism or change the minds of radicalized jihadists.
   • While China could do a better job with due process and transparency, the overall efforts are reasonable and effective.
   
   
9. Muslims and Islam are not oppressed in China
   
   • Xinjiang alone has 20,000+ mosques; and all major cities in China have large mosques, some built hundreds of years ago. There are also 20 million Hui Muslims in China, but they have never been subjected to these efforts.
   
   
10. Uyghurs are moderate Muslims
    
    • Uyghurs have traditionally followed Sufism, a very moderate version of Islam that’s totally different from Saudi Arabia’s Wahhabism.
    • Uyghur women wear beautiful colorful clothes, love to sing and dance, and don’t wear burqas or hijabs. Uyghur tradition even includes mild alcoholic drinks (called Museles).
    • But if you watch the Uyghur separatist women, they are always covered up like the ultra-orthodox sects.
    
    
11. China has helped Uyghurs prosper
    
    • The Uyghur population has doubled in the last 40 years. Uyghurs were exempted from China’s one-child policy.
    • Ethnic minorities get preferential bonuses on the National College Exams
    • Xinjiang’s GDP has 10x in the last 20 years.
    • There are many popular Uyghur actors, dancers, singers, athletes, politicians in Chinese society, and media.
    
    
12. This is all about geopolitics
    
    • Xinjiang is a crucial part of China’s Belt and Road Initiative. Every month, more than 1,000 freight trains go through Xinjiang while transferring goods between China and Europe. Disrupting Xinjiang means disrupting the Chinese economy.
    • The U.S. wants to contain the rise of China and thus is waging a hybrid war. From stirring up internal chaos in Hong Kong and Xinjiang to external chaos via Taiwan and India and to stifling Chinese tech companies like Huawei and TikTok, This is just America’s playbook of ruthless geopolitics.

Article: Uyghur-Xinjiang Explained in Four Minutes | The China Wiki

What a load of fucking twaddle.

We have more important things to do than waste time on the likes of you 'arry, so that nice concise primer demolishes all of your spoonfed, nonsensical, sinophobic accusations.

No wonder you don't like it.

The crux of the matter is about separatism

• A small fraction of Uyghurs demand their own independent Islamic state. They call it “Turkistan” and want it to be created out of China’s Xinjiang province.
• No country in the world tolerates separatism and secession.

The Scottish referendum?

Originally Posted by Hugh Cow

No country in the world tolerates separatism and secession.

And how it was with Kosovo?