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  1. #101
    Thailand Expat Backspin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    I'm often told the exact thing . . . it's the Jacobian part which riles people

    Jacobian isnt a word. You two planks

    You're fuckin up my SST thread

  2. #102
    Thailand Expat Backspin's Avatar
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    back in the short time that the US and Russia were friends, they had this in the works. The Sukhoi Gulfstream S0-21 SST business jet

    The Boom demo plane looks similar. Thats the thing about aerodynamics. 2 separate engineers will end up with the same looking plane


  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    Jacobian isnt a word. You two planks
    The Fucktard is strong in Skidmark/socal/Backspin.




    You really are an idiot without compare.




    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    You're fuckin up my SST thread
    You're 'fuckin' it up yourself . . . and any other you post in - now it's the 'Dinner' thread as well . . . what a loser
    Last edited by panama hat; 14-10-2020 at 08:05 AM.

  4. #104
    Thailand Expat lom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    Thats the thing about aerodynamics. 2 separate engineers will end up with the same looking plane
    because both of them are using the same wind tunnel simulation software you plonker.
    They don't even have to do that if one of them is Chinese...

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by backspin View Post
    jacobian isnt a word. You two planks

    you're fuckin up my sst thread
    Just stop being a fuckig cock on every thread.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    You're fuckin up my SST thread
    It is a shit thread anyway.

  7. #107
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    This thread has showed very clearly how up to date skidmark/socal is on supersonic flight..

    New supersonic passenger jet in the works.-giphy-7-gif

  8. #108
    Thailand Expat Backspin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lom View Post
    because both of them are using the same wind tunnel simulation software you plonker.
    They don't even have to do that if one of them is Chinese...

    The US and Russians had their own wind tunnels and their own software. But during the cold war, they came up with similar looking aircraft because yes, aerodynamics doesn't discriminate. Both engineering teams are going to end up with the same conclusions.

    And yes. China isn't an aviation power like the US and Russia. So they just copy.

  9. #109
    Thailand Expat Backspin's Avatar
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    Side by side. Boom demonstrator and Sukhoi S-21. Sukhoi engineers came up with basically the same thing in the 1990's as Boom in the 2020's

    Both trijets.

  10. #110
    Thailand Expat Backspin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    It is a shit thread anyway.
    Depends if you give any fucks on aviation, stupid in Seattle

  11. #111
    Thailand Expat Backspin's Avatar
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    Arion Supersonic is another SST company but its mostly just a vaporware project that seems to go nowhere. Its jet, the AS2, has a similar design concept to the Starfighter. But they keep changing it


  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    Depends if you give any fucks on aviation, stupid in Seattle
    Hmm . . . I posted up a pic of the definition, but it disappears.

    Anyway:

    Jacobian

    JJacobian/dʒəˈkəʊbɪən/

    MATHEMATICS
    adjective

    • relating to the work of the mathematician K. G. J. Jacobi.


    noun

    • a determinant whose constituents are the derivatives of a number of functions ( u, v, w, …) with respect to each of the same number of variables ( x, y, z, …).


    jacobian definition - Google-haku

    Cretin


    (Ok, I've said my piece on this thread - carry on and excuse the interruption - maybe Skidmark will see how annoying it is when posters go off track - but then he's thick a s a brick shithouse, so the chance is slim)
    Last edited by panama hat; 14-10-2020 at 09:57 AM.

  13. #113
    Thailand Expat OhOh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    So they just copy.
    To form your opinion I presume you have examined the contract agreement China and Boeing agreed. Which allowed Boeing, subject to both parties abiding to the contract conditions, to fulfil their desire to open a module assembly factory in China? Presumably to take advantage of any assembly cost reduction available (superior build rate, reduced employee wages, nullifying home country taxes and annulling any import duties ....) and lastly maintaining good relationships with the largest single civil airplane market in the world .

    Do you have a link to the contract you can share with us here on TD?

    Alternatively do you have a link to substantiate, your allegation, that Chinese assembly plants stole Boeing intellectual property?

    I suspect Boeing would not provided all the complete design data.

    More likely Boeing provided:

    1. Boeing delivered to Chinese companies; module assembly component specs and checking methods. (to ensure incoming deliveries were compliant)
    2. Boeing delivered to Chinese companies; Build methods and possibly checking machines; (specified and mandated by Boeing that the Chinese companies must adhere to and utilise)
    3. Chinese delivered completed assemblies back to Boeing; checks. (to ensure outgoing deliveries were compliant)

    Which of course are valuable and which all Boeing subcontractors, around the world and in ameristan, are mandated to follow/utilise.
    Last edited by OhOh; 14-10-2020 at 11:01 AM.
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

  14. #114
    Thailand Expat Backspin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    To form your opinion I presume you have examined the contract agreement China and Boeing agreed. Which allowed Boeing, subject to abiding to the contract conditions, their desire to open an assembly factory in China?

    Do you have a link you can share with us here on TD?

    Im not talking about that obviously. I am talking about anything indigenous to China's aviation industry. Like the J-11 fighter. Its an exact 100% copy of the su 27.

    China just isn't an aviation power like the US and Russia are. China has strengths at other things. Aviation isnt one of them

  15. #115
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    Over a billion people, hundreds of new airports coming online, so the next step... Its long skidmark so set at least an hour and a half for you to get through it..

    Comac C919: China takes on Airbus and Boeing | CNN Travel

  16. #116
    Thailand Expat Backspin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aging one View Post
    Over a billion people, hundreds of new airports coming online, so the next step... Its long skidmark so set at least an hour and a half for you to get through it..

    Comac C919: China takes on Airbus and Boeing | CNN Travel
    Not quite. China will be smart to get a production license for the MC-21.

    China's COMAC C919 Faces A New Mathematical Headwind - Simple Flying
    China’s attempt to compete with Airbus and Boeing in the single-aisle twin-engine airliner market has suffered another blow after COMAC engineers miscalculated load factors. Four people familiar with the development of the plane told Reuters that Chinese engineers sent the wrong mathematical data to the engine manufacturer CFM International.


    Meanwhile..................

    Russia's all composite winged FBW MC-21 is breezing through certification.

    New Russian MC-21 Aircraft Can Compete With Boeing And Airbus Models, Analysts Say


    A new report from a western consulting firm says the Russian narrow body Irkut MC-21 “appears to be an excellent aircraft” that can compete with similar models from Airbus and Boeing, but sales outside Russia will be hampered by concerns over maintenance and geopolitics.

    The report by the consulting firm Air Insight said the two MC-21 models, which seat between 132 and 175 passengers in two classes, can be competitive with the Boeing 737MAX 8 and the Airbus A320neo.

  17. #117
    Thailand Expat Backspin's Avatar
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    China and Russia are trying to collaborate on a new widebody called the 929


  18. #118
    Thailand Expat OhOh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    Its an exact 100% copy of the su 27.
    Which there was no agreement between the China and Russia?

    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    China just isn't an aviation power like the US and Russia are.
    Neither were many countries able to produce many items without "appropriated" knowledge/foreign personnel throughout the last 2,000 years. Many "invited" into working for enemies/conquering countries.

    I suspect Europe would also be considered an "aviation power" some might say a world leader.

    Quote Originally Posted by aging one View Post
    Over a billion people, hundreds of new airports coming online, so the next step
    To illustrate China's position here is Boeings forecast for new plane purchase over the next 20 years. It's an annual forecast produced every year to illustrate the normal Boeing v Airbus competition.

    Pontifications: Boeing’s latest forecast raises more doubt than hope

    Attachment 58744

    At the top is China, the only individual country that Boeing is forecasting positive new sales growth.

    The author of the article suggests Boeing's numbers are somewhat overstated to placate Boeing's shareholders.

    "Demand for new aircraft will not stay depressed permanently – this is a certainty. But troubling details in Boeing’s latest forecast make it clear the CMO is an aspirational guide, not one for planning."

    The article can be found here for more breakdowns of the forecast details;

    Pontifications: Boeing’s latest forecast raises more doubt than hope - Leeham News and Analysis

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    I'll take it at face value that you some some credentials and aren't basing your expertise on 30 years of subscribing to Popular Mechanics.



    The problem with making that accusation to a Concorde and SST enthusiast.... Nothing I have said or will say is made up. The Concorde had a smokey and louder engine during the sales tour. And both of these ailments were improved. That's a fact I read in this book which I own. And its also in the 2017 BBC documantary






    Are you blind ? The Boomer supersonic airliner is not going to use afterburners at any point in flight. Period.

    Why we don’t need an afterburner


    What technological advancements will let the Boom passenger jet fly faster than the Concorde without afterburning?

    Why we don’t need an afterburner. What technological advancements will… | by Boom Supersonic | Boom Supersonic
    My credentials? Not obvious enough yet?

    Concorde had Olympus turbofan from the initial design...and only variants of the -593 were ever fitted. It was always smokey and always with reheat required to reach supersonic but could supercruise, no reheat at supersonic speed. The engine was based on the -300 series, fitted to the later Vulcan B2 XM production models. The video is of a production model take-off so any argument about less smokey engines is BS.

    Name an aircraft that can reach supersonic speeds without reheat. Supercruise is limited to only a few aircraft already.

    Variable bypass engines have been designed since the 50's...check out the P&W J58 and then ask why they set the limit of XB-1 to M2.2. Sure it isn't more likely to be temperature related?

  20. #120
    Thailand Expat Backspin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    Which there was no agreement between the China and Russia?


    s
    Im pretty sure not. That's what makes it kinda ridiculous although smart of the Chinese. They don't have a production license for the su 27. India has that.

    Even the naval variant, China went and bought a couple of su 27 naval variants from Ukraine and copied those

  21. #121
    Thailand Expat Backspin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    My credentials? Not obvious enough yet?

    Concorde had Olympus turbofan from the initial design...and only variants of the -593 were ever fitted. It was always smokey and always with reheat required to reach supersonic but could supercruise, no reheat at supersonic speed. The engine was based on the -300 series, fitted to the later Vulcan B2 XM production models. The video is of a production model take-off so any argument about less smokey engines is BS.

    Name an aircraft that can reach supersonic speeds without reheat. Supercruise is limited to only a few aircraft already.

    Variable bypass engines have been designed since the 50's...check out the P&W J58 and then ask why they set the limit of XB-1 to M2.2. Sure it isn't more likely to be temperature related?
    The limit of the production aircraft is set to 2.2 as well. Not just the XB-1. They specifically state that they set the speed to 2.2 so that they can use proven technologies.

    You dont have to be cryptic just to bust my balls. I am curious what you are saying . Im not trying to bust your balls




    Supercruise is a newsh feature. Its not impossible.

    Russian aero-engine manufacturer confirms super cruise feature for Su-57 fighter jets; Moscow to re-pitch aircraft project to India

  22. #122
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    supercruise is flying at supersonic speed without the use of reheat. Reheat is still required to pass through the transonic region into the supersonic region due to the high wave drag.

    The J58 is fitted to the SR-71 and has variable bypass to allow speeds around M3. The temperature rise as you increase M was the limiting factor for concorde due to the materials used. It is also likely to be the reason for this aircraft.

  23. #123
    Thailand Expat Backspin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    supercruise is flying at supersonic speed without the use of reheat. Reheat is still required to pass through the transonic region into the supersonic region due to the high wave drag.

    The J58 is fitted to the SR-71 and has variable bypass to allow speeds around M3. The temperature rise as you increase M was the limiting factor for concorde due to the materials used. It is also likely to be the reason for this aircraft.
    Well Mach 2.2 is fast enough

  24. #124
    Thailand Expat Backspin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    supercruise is flying at supersonic speed without the use of reheat. Reheat is still required to pass through the transonic region into the supersonic region due to the high wave drag.

    The J58 is fitted to the SR-71 and has variable bypass to allow speeds around M3. The temperature rise as you increase M was the limiting factor for concorde due to the materials used. It is also likely to be the reason for this aircraft.
    The whole rear fuselage of the Boom XB-1 is titanium. The rest is carbon fiber which is far superior to the Concorde. This allows full area ruling of the whole aircraft.

    The Boom aircraft will not stretch in length due to the heat cycles like the Concorde did

    This is also why the supersonic boom for this aircraft will be more of a thud than a crackling boom of a fighter. The more refined the shape is , the less noise it will make.


  25. #125
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    To form your opinion I presume you have examined the contract agreement China and Boeing agreed.
    Any contract signed with China might as well be written on toilet roll.

    How China Stole an Entire Airplane

    StackPath


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