Thread: The removal of Hamilton's statue (NZ) is only the start, we should tear them all down

Originally Posted by TheRealKW

Hmmm, just in case we are not aware of the 'bent' of this article, to compare today's liberalism with Pol Pot's regime tells us exactly everything we need to know about how objective this article is...

Here is a similar, possibly more extreme to some people on the intolerances shown, in the current times, to the wishes and desires of previous generations. Exctly what thay allege they are showing so much heartfelt, kneeling for now.

As the site has many opinions posted in response some are from the extremes, both ends.

Your Black Future
Linh Dinh • June 14, 2020

"A guy with who once pointed a gun at the belly of a woman during an armed robbery was actually “a gentle giant,” according to ABC News. It quotes one of his buddies, “Anybody who knows him will tell you he’s not confrontational.” At George Floyd’s funeral, the mayor of Minneapolis, Richard Frey, knelt by the coffin and sobbed for a full minute, his body shaking.

For over two weeks, riots have erupted across America, and it doesn’t look like they will stop soon. Protesters and cops have been killed. A black man has just been shot by police in Atlanta, triggering another riot.

Reading about all this turmoil, I think back to my one visit to the Twin Cities, in 2014. Arriving in Saint Paul on a train from Williston, North Dakota, I checked into a motel, and was on the streets by dawn. It was July 4th!

Wandering around haphazardly, I ended up at Langford Park, where there was a large picnic. Old people relaxed on lawn chairs, kids ran around and the Pig’s Eye Jass Band was swinging to Gershwin’s “Strike Up the Band.” Having been to many cities in at least 35 states, I had never encountered such a wholesome and tranquilly joyous gathering. It was as if I had stumbled into a vast Norman Rockwell painting, or time traveled to an America of half a century ago.

Though there were some blacks and Orientals, almost everyone there was white. Still, I never felt unwelcomed. I chatted with a middle-aged gentleman who gave me a fascinating primer on the Iron Range. Pasties I already knew about, from my time in England.

Later that day, I went to downtown Minneapolis. On Nicollet Mall, I reentered a more familiar urban America of pants slung below butt cracks, eyebrow piercings and neck tattoos. A gaunt white guy had small oil paintings sewn onto his black coat. I passed about ten members of the Israelite Church of God in Jesus Christ. Most were in tasseled and embroidered white robes, with two red Stars of David on their chests. The bodyguards wore all black. I have seen the same group in Philly, Washington and Atlanta. Their membership is limited to blacks and browns, for whites are sodomizing devils who deserve to be enslaved or exterminated.

Although Nicollet Mall was just six miles from Langford Park, what I saw were two entirely separate Americas. In Philly, crossing a single street can land you in a different world. Often, whites have simply given up and abandoned their neighborhoods, complete with the large churches or synagogues they so lovingly built. That’s not racism, but fleeing for your life, and blacks have done the same, the first chance they get.

In black ghettos across America, I’ve marveled at the ruins of once magnificent houses of worship, as well as formerly beautiful homes, now charred, just for the fun of it, or boarded up. If it’s a majority black neighborhood or city, as in Gary or Jackson, you can be sure it’s a disaster, but of course it’s all the fault of fudge packing white devils.

As incompatible Americas again collide, cities are looted and burnt, leading many to think it’s a rerun of racial riots from the 60’s. Others believe it’s an intensification of the resistance against Trump, racist cops, the patriarchy and/or Capitalism. It’s a new beginning, they hope.

To better understand what’s happening, though, we should reexamine Mao’s Cultural Revolution. Lasting a full decade, it destroyed much of China’s cultural heritage and tore that society apart, all in the name of getting rid of the “Four Olds”: old customs, old culture, old habits and old ideas.

It was a reign of terror against man, civilization and China itself, but it had to be done, for there was a socialist utopia at the end of the blood splattered tunnel, said Mao.

Mao’s shock troops were high school and university students, woke idiots, in short, with their little Red Book. They denounced professors, intellectuals and artists, torched temples and monasteries, burnt books and paintings, smashed art objects, tore bits from the Great Wall and vandalized the 2,400-year-old cemetery of the Kong Clan, where Confucius himself was buried. Digging up one of his descendants, they hung the naked corpse from a tree.

Mao had stipulated that Red Guards could travel on trains for free, so they roamed to even the most remote areas, to destroy.

At the end of the Cultural Revolution, Mao rewarded his loyal and ardent zealots by sending them to distant farms, for they had outlasted their usefulness and become a political liability. Standing in mud, buffeted by cold winds and far from home, they could further reflect on being woke.

Mao unleashed his Red Guards on all of his potential or even imaginary adversaries. Ruthless, calculating or just paranoid, he even turned on loyal comrades who had been with him on the Long March, but that’s just how tyrants roll. It was an extreme power play.

Today, Americans are also caught in a power play. It’s all too inevitable, for they’ve been under siege for decades, with everything about them systematically discredited, deformed or attacked. In a 1997 lecture, Joseph Sobran elucidated:

"The modern state has to police more and more of our lives, because it has set itself against the normal. It defines normal acquisition as greed, normal group preferences as bigotry, and normal morality as hate. Consequently it has to watch over us at all times to make sure we aren’t too assertive about our normality, while it caters to our abnormalities.

Treason used to mean the subversion of the state. But the state itself now works the subversion of society. In other times, including Shakespeare’s, it has been understood that the state’s whole justification for existing is to support and protect normal life against the criminal, the savage, the perverse. Even tyrants never questioned this assumption"

Just like Mao’s Red Guards, then, American rebels running amok do not threaten but serve a ruling clique. Look at their targets. They are destroying middle- and working-class stores and communities. They’re tearing down Main Streets.

Subverting society, the state derides all traditional standards and definitions of decency, as it normalizes or even celebrates criminals, savages and perverts. To get confirmation of this, just turn on your television, browse through a magazine or talk to your kids about what they’re learning in schools.

Clear, nuanced and measured language has been replaced by raving idiocies and obscenities. Piss Christ is beautiful. Shakespeare sucks. Unless they’re trannies, men are toxic, especially white ones.

To remake a nation, then, you destroy its heritage, its “Four Olds.” In the West, old ways are inextricably linked with Christianity and whiteness, so both have to go, but how do you get white majority countries to denounce their own heritage?

To start with, you use the academy and media to drum guilt and shame into them, repeat endlessly that only whites can be racist, that they owned slaves, lynched blacks, dropped bombs everywhere and stayed silent as Hitler gassed six million Jews, the worst crime ever. As the first step towards their own salvation, then, whites must renounce their whiteness.

If a white meekly squeaks that, well, racism is in the heart, so anyone can be a racist, that slavery was pretty much everywhere, in China, Korea, Japan, the Americas before Columbus and all of Africa, etc., that men of every race can be super sadistic in abusing their own kind and even corpses, using whatever technology they have available, and most whites actually fought against Hitler, and finally, he doesn’t believe in collective guilt, especially since his grandpa was a serf, his daddy died in the coal mine and he’s a minimum wager himself, working way past retirement age, you can just shut this asshole up by shouting in his face, “I should have known all along you were a Nazi!”

Mark LeVine, a history professor at the University of California, Irvine, sums it up most eloquently, “While whiteness and its avatar, ‘Western civilization,’ have for centuries declared themselves to be the epitome of Enlightenment and freedom, historians have demonstrated not only the historicity of whiteness and its contingency, but that whiteness emerged directly and almost exclusively through its connection to imperialism/colonialism, slavery, genocide and modern-day racism […] the humiliation and extermination of black people is the most enduring identifying marker of whiteness.”

Though often accusing Christians of racial genocide, Jews ignore that it’s inspired and justified by the Hebrew Bible. Moreover, Christians have often committed mass murders to benefit Jews only.

It doesn’t matter. Don’t sweat the details. All professors who still have jobs agree that whiteness is evil, as in white cops, white run prisons, statues of white men, white borders that keep out non-whites, so if you’re white, it’s high time you kneel down and beg forgiveness from the nearest Sub-Saharan African, for he’s your priest, saint and martyr!

White is filthy. Black is pure. Blackness transcends, so just yield to it. As they say on the streets, “Once you try black, you never go back.”

In 1989, Madonna allegorizes all this with her music video, “Like a Prayer.” In the indigo dark, amid police sirens, she witnesses a gang of whites kill a white woman. Lit up, one smirking thug even has a chiseled face like a Hollywood Nazi. When a black man tries to help the victim, he’s arrested by a white cop.

Terrified and dressed like a whore, Madonna enters a black church, to kneel in front of a tearful black saint. She kisses his foot. Coming to life, the gentle black man kisses her cheek and forehead. Joy erupts! Singing and dancing with an exuberant, life affirming black choir,

Madonna kneels again, this time in front of a black woman.Reappearing, the black savior is now on top of Madonna.Bookending this video, there are crosses burning because, you know, white people are always burning crosses outside black churches. Whites kill or arrest innocents. Blacks save.

Finally, who hate America, Christianity and whiteness so much, they risk killing themselves even, for no parasites can survive without a host?

Perhaps they already have another fat prey targeted, so as you fight among yourselves and die, they move on, laughing all the way?

Let’s not end, though, on such a down note. There’s not just hope, but potentially great news on the horizon. Since the Jewish state’s major backer is fatally weakened, divided and in chaos, Israel will disappear as America disintegrates.

The always astute Dmitri Orlov clearly thinks so, for he suggests, “There is a very nice, underpopulated Jewish Autonomous Region within the Russian Federation, on the border with China, to which Israelis will be able to evacuate once US financial and military support for Israel dries up.”

Since I don’t think it’s wise to let in racial supremacists with a long history of despising Russia, I sure hope Orlov is being facetious.

In any case, I have friend in Lebanon who has invited me there. Together, we’ll drive to a liberated Jerusalem, she promises. Oh, what a joyous day that will be, for all of humanity!

https://www.unz.com/ldinh/your-black...omment-3968033

The author is a Vietnamese man, who lived in USA, returned to Vietnam and writes "postcards" of places he visits.

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

since when are statues history

They are symbols erected in praise of whatever the statue represents. As are books, paintings, songs ....

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Because that would be dumb and entirely misses the point.

Bollocks.

Originally Posted by cyrille

Christ - overreaction much

Rather than meekly giving way to to todays, gone tomorrow, indulgant masses. Who only beleive in their way of thinking and destroy others.

Many years ago I and my brothers did many things my parents disagreed with. Did we force them to follow our actions and deeds, no.

We did not force any of our differences onto their lifestyle or beliefs. They had theirs and we had ours. That is not what is happening now.

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

It's not nonsense and it's not censorship

Of the previous generations thoughts, heroes, standards, of course it is.

So It’s OK to Erase Soviet Statues, but Not Western Imperialist Ones?



"Statues commemorating colonizers, slavers and imperialists are toppling from their pedestals on both sides of the Atlantic in the wake of mass protests over the U.S. police killing of African-American man George Floyd. The surge in anti-racist public anger has widened to target other icons seen as glorifying racism and oppression of other peoples.

In recent days, the U.S. has seen statues dedicated to Christopher Columbus and Confederate leaders taken down or defaced.
In Britain a statue of a slave-trade figure was dumped into a harbor and local elected councils up and down the country are reviewing the fate of hundreds of other such landmark effigies.

The same angry public mood in Belgium, Norway and other European countries is calling for a reckoning with heritage sites that are seen as paying homage to colonialism and slavery. Several statues dedicated to Belgian King Leopold II have been vandalized owing to his legacy of genocide in the African Congo at the end of the 19th century.

The drive to remove these statues has been going on for decades. In 2000, antiwar protests in London targeted the figure of Winston Churchill in Parliament Square. It was defaced again last week with the slogan “racist” was daubed under the sculpture of the World War Two leader. The latest epithet refers to Churchill’s infamous racialist bigotry towards Asians and Jews, as well as his gung-ho imperialist predilections.

In August 2017, in Charlottesville, Virginia, American woman Heather Heyer was killed by a white supremacist driving a speeding car into a peaceful crowd who were demanding the removal of a statue to Robert E Lee, the Confederate general. Other Southern figures from the Civil War (1861-45) have also been slated for taking down owing to claims that they represent pro-slavery racism.

This movement has been renewed and expanded internationally since the brutal murder of George Floyd by a white cop in Minneapolis on May 25. The police officer knelt on Floyd’s neck for over eight minutes as he pleaded for breath. The whole gruesome scene was recorded on the video of a bystander’s phone. Since then protests on both sides of the Atlantic have been calling for an end to racist policing and institutionalized inequality. But there seems to be a watershed moment that has galvanized past protests against numerous racist killings, primarily in the U.S. but also in European countries. The mass demonstrations also seem to have aggregated into calls for addressing wider social and multiracial grievances about economic injustice, poverty, war and the imperialist legacy of Western countries.

A backlash against removing controversial statues and other emblems uses the argument that the action is obliterating history.

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson has condemned the removal of existing controversial statues. He said: “We cannot now try to edit or censor our past. We cannot pretend to have a different history. The statues in our cities and towns were put up by previous generations. They had different perspectives, different understandings of right and wrong. But those statues teach us about our past, with all its faults. To tear them down would be to lie about our history, and impoverish the education of generations to come.”

If a landmark to a slaver or colonizer is removed then how is the history of that epoch discussed, it is contended. However, that may sound like an oblique apology for having such figures displayed in public spaces.

U.S. President Donald Trump has vehemently opposed any removal of Confederate statues. This week he rebuffed proposals to rename contemporary military bases with Confederate titles, such as Fort Bragg, North Carolina, or Fort Hood, Texas.

Trump stated: “It has been suggested that we should rename as many as 10 of our Legendary Military Bases, such as Fort Bragg in North Carolina, Fort Hood in Texas, Fort Benning in Georgia, etc. These Monumental and very Powerful Bases have become part of a Great American Heritage, and a history of Winning, Victory, and Freedom.”

The president has previously opposed removing statues of Confederate leaders with the following rationale typical of others like Britain’s Johnson who share the view of maintaining the status quo: “Sad to see the history and culture of our great country being ripped apart with the removal of our beautiful statues and monuments…the beauty that is being taken out of our cities, towns and parks will be greatly missed and never able to be comparably replaced!” wrote Trump back in 2017.

Advocates of taking down offending statues say the objects should not be destroyed but rather put in museums where they can be viewed with explanatory historical context of colonialism, imperialism or slavery. That seems a fair compromise.

For people of African descent and others of color, the public veneration of personages and symbols of slavery or colonial conquest is understandably repugnant. Indeed for many people regardless of their skin color, such glorification is also seen as repugnant. It may be an inevitable fact that victors write history. But it is not an inevitable fact that that dubious version of history must prevail in the form of icons adorning public spaces.

British and other Western state wealth was built largely on the backs of colonized peoples around the world. Why should key figures of that genocidal legacy be allowed to stand over public places with pomp and imperial majesty? In Britain, this includes public figures dedicated to Sir Francis Drake, Sir Walter Raleigh, Cecil Rhodes, Sir James Cook and many more.

A notable double standard prevails in the debate. While defenders of such monuments are animated by supposedly preserving history “warts and all”, they have had no such problem about the ransacking of hundreds of Soviet-era statues in EU members Poland and the Baltic states of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia.

Since those countries joined NATO and the EU, there has been a systematic erasure of public monuments dedicated to Soviet military leaders and Red Army soldiers. The silence from Washington and Western European capitals is tacit approval for such state-sponsored vandalism. Where is the outcry to “preserve history”?

There is none because the desecration of public Soviet landmarks is part of the toxic revisionist trend about World War Two and the erasure of the historic role of the Red Army in defeating European fascism.

The double standard is all the more appalling because there is no equivalence between Western figures of imperialist war and colonial crimes and the Soviet heroes who liberated Poland and Eastern Europe from the Third Reich’s tyranny.

Taking down Soviet figures is an act of cultural vandalism that is serving a wider geopolitical agenda of hostility towards Russia.
Taking down objectionable figures in Western states is an act of reparation in which these states are forced to account for genocidal histories that have for long been concealed by chauvinistic, supremacist arrogance."

https://www.strategic-culture.org/ne...erialist-ones/

Originally Posted by OhOh

Since those countries joined NATO and the EU, there has been a systematic erasure of public monuments dedicated to Soviet military leaders and Red Army soldiers. The silence from Washington and Western European capitals is tacit approval for such state-sponsored vandalism. Where is the outcry to “preserve history”?

There is none because the desecration of public Soviet landmarks is part of the toxic revisionist trend about World War Two and the erasure of the historic role of the Red Army in defeating European fascism.

They were statues that no one in those Soviet satellite states wanted to have, they were forced upon those countries by Soviet Union.
People of those satellite states tore them down and for the same reason a certain wall was torn down when they got their freedom.

Originally Posted by OhOh

https://www.strategic-culture.org/ne...erialist-ones/

Originally Posted by mediabiasfactcheck.com

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Overall, we rate the Strategic Culture Foundation (SCF) a Questionable source based on extreme right wing bias, promotion of Russian propaganda and conspiracy theories as well as a complete lack of transparency with the goal to deceive readers. This is not a credible source.