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  1. #451
    Hansum Man! panama hat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    Aren't you glad you do not reside in Buffalo...
    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    ^^ With a police force like that, I can see why.
    Yup


    Quote Originally Posted by helge View Post
    Is the NFL top kneeling now ?
    Yes, and Trump is furious about it.

  2. #452
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    John Evans, president of the local police union, told the newspaper: "Our position is these officers were simply following orders"

    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Damn, that seems familiar. Can anyone remind me where I might have heard that before?


    Attachment 52060

    Yes, it seems quite familiar, happening not so far from here... (However, not so spectacular court proceeding ....)

  3. #453
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    Wouldn’t you know it? It’s that damn George Soros at work again.



    In Klamath Falls, Oregon, victory declared over antifa, which never showed up

    Towns from Washington state to Indiana have seen armed groups begin patrolling the streets after rumors spread on social media about an antifa invasion.

    About 200 protesters came to Sugarman’s Corner, the local hotspot in downtown Klamath Falls, Oregon, last Sunday night to protest the killing of George Floyd.

    Like in many of the protests that have recently sprung up in cities across the United States, the group was made up of white, black and Latino people, members of the Native American Klamath Tribes, and the LGBTQ community; a diverse coalition in a county of 68,000 where 9 out of every ten residents are white, according to Census estimates. They held signs, many of which have become common during recent protests: "Black Lives Matter" and "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."

    Though it was a small gathering, they had company.

    Just across the street, hundreds of their mostly white neighbors were there for decidedly different reasons. They leaned in front of local businesses The Daily Bagel and Rick's Smoke Shop wearing military fatigues and bulletproof vests, with blue bands tied around their arms. Most everyone seemed to be carrying something: flags, baseball bats, hammers and axes. But mostly, they carried guns.

    They said they came with shotguns, rifles and pistols to protect their downtown businesses from outsiders. They had heard that antifa, paid by billionaire philanthropist George Soros, were being bused in from neighboring cities, hellbent on razing their idyllic town.

    MORE In Klamath Falls, Oregon, victory declared over antifa, which never showed up

  4. #454
    Thailand Expat HermantheGerman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntRobertson View Post
    ..... then the slack-jawed sister-fucking inbred Billy Bob yokel racist muthuafuckas are for all whites.
    Now just imagine you would substitute some of these words for black people.
    Anty would be throwing a fit from here to Africa.

  5. #455
    Thailand Expat AntRobertson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HermantheGerman
    Now just imagine you would substitute some of these words for black people.
    Anty would be throwing a fit from here to Africa.
    Imagine if you didn't miss the point.

    Imagine...

  6. #456
    Thailand Expat raycarey's Avatar
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    just a hunch, but something tells me herman doesn't have to imagine using slurs for black people.

  7. #457
    Never Mind The Bollix
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    Quote Originally Posted by Looper View Post
    Buffalo police riot squad quit to back officers who shoved man
    Two Buffalo policemen charged for shoving 75-year-old protester

    Two US policemen have been charged with second-degree assault after they were filmed pushing a 75-year old protester to the ground, seriously injuring him.

    Aaron Torgalski, 39, and Robert McCabe, 32, pleaded not guilty in Buffalo, New York. They were released without bail, and face up to seven years in prison.

    On Thursday, they were seen shoving Martin Gugino, who fell backwards on the pavement and started bleeding.

    He remains in a local hospital in a serious but stable condition.

    F.B.I. to Investigate Arrest of Black Man Who Died During Arrest-_112752623_d91d4ba6-3e5f-4ede-825e-98d0ff4c7de4-jpg


    The two officers were enforcing a curfew in the city as a result of protests since the death of George Floyd in police custody in Minneapolis last month.

    Aaron Torgalski and Robert McCabe, members of the Emergency Response Team, were suspended without pay after footage of the incident outside the City Hall went viral.

    Fifty-seven of their colleagues - the entire unit - later resigned from the team in response to the officers' suspension.

    Thousands protest against racism in Washington DC
    'Pandemic of racism' led to Floyd's death, memorial told

    On Saturday, a crowd of more than 100 supporters - including police officers and firefighters - protested outside the courthouse in Buffalo against the assault charges filed.
    What are Buffalo prosecutors saying?

    In a statement, Erie County District Attorney John Flynn said: "The two defendants, who are Buffalo Police officers, pushed a protestor outside of City Hall, causing him to fall and hit his head on the sidewalk."

    He stressed that he was not taking sides in the high-profile case.

    "We're on the same team here. We're all working each and every day to do justice, to keep our streets safe, to keep our communities safe.

    "I'm partnered with law enforcement every day to do that. And when I have to prosecute one of my teammates it doesn't help the situation," Mr Flynn said.
    What has been the reaction?

    John Evans, president of the local police union, told the Buffalo News newspaper: "Our position is these officers were simply following orders from Deputy Police Commissioner Joseph Gramaglia to clear the square.

    "It doesn't specify clear the square of men, 50 and under or 15 to 40. They were simply doing their job. I don't know how much contact was made. He did slip in my estimation. He fell backwards."


    New York Governor Andrew Cuomo said on Friday the two officers should be fired, and called for the incident to be investigated for "possible criminal charges".

    In a statement, Buffalo Mayor Byron Brown said: "We can confirm that contingency plans are in place to maintain police services and ensure public safety within our community."

    An initial statement from Buffalo Police Department said the man - long-time social justice activist in Buffalo, according to advocacy group Push (People United for Sustainable Housing) - had "tripped" and fallen during a "skirmish involving protesters".

    Police spokesman Jeff Rinaldo later attributed the statement to officers not directly involved in the incident.

    Two Buffalo policemen charged for shoving 75-year-old protester - BBC News

  8. #458
    Hansum Man! panama hat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Looper View Post
    Fifty-seven of their colleagues - the entire unit - later resigned from the team in response to the officers' suspension.
    To be clear, they DIDN'T quite the police force. They quit their (temporary?) unit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Looper View Post
    An initial statement from Buffalo Police Department said the man - long-time social justice activist in Buffalo, according to advocacy group Push (People United for Sustainable Housing) - had "tripped" and fallen during a "skirmish involving protesters".
    Police issuing false reports??? Nevvvaaaaa

  9. #459
    The Fool on the Hill bowie's Avatar
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    For those who think the politicians aren't listening...


    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/minneapolis-city-council-announces-intent-to-disband-police-department/ar-BB15amCL?li=BBnb7Kz

    F.B.I. to Investigate Arrest of Black Man Who Died During Arrest-aaa1qzz-img-png

    Minneapolis City Council announces intent to disband police department

    Estefan Saucedo 1 hr ago

    A veto-proof majority of Minneapolis City Council members announced during a rally at Powderhorn Sunday that they are planning to disband the police department.
    City Council members said they will invest in community-led safety initiatives instead of the police department.

    "Our commitment is to end our city’s toxic relationship with the Minneapolis Police Department, to end policing as we know it, and to re-create systems of public safety that actually keep us safe," Minneapolis City Council President Lisa Bender said at Sunday’s community meeting.

    The council members who took part in the announcement are Cam Gordon, Steve Fletcher, Phillipe Cunningham, Jeremiah Ellison, Andrea Jenkins, Alondra Cano, Lisa Bender and Jeremy Schroeder.
    The announcement comes after various entities such as the University of Minnesota, Minneapolis Public Schools, First Avenue, and others decided to end or limit their relationship with the police department.



    Minneapolis, MN Crime Rates and Statistics ...

    www.neighborhoodscout.com › Minnesota › Minneapolis
    With a crime rate of 50 per one thousand residents, Minneapolis has one of the highest crime rates in America compared to all communities of all sizes.



    Will have to monitor Minneapolis real estate sales and pricing, gun sales, vigilantism and, of course, enrollment at the University of Minnesota – Paul Kersey, Where are you?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails F.B.I. to Investigate Arrest of Black Man Who Died During Arrest-aaa1qzz-img-png  

  10. #460
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    So proud of my fellow countrymen…

    White woman blocks BLM protest with her car, and spits in the face of a young black teen.


  11. #461
    Hangin' Around cyrille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    Will have to monitor Minneapolis real estate sales and pricing, gun sales, vigilantism and, of course, enrollment at the University of Minnesota – Paul Kersey, Where are you?
    $$$ always comes first, eh bowie.

  12. #462
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    Quote Originally Posted by Looper View Post
    Two Buffalo policemen charged for shoving 75-year-old protester
    And what about the gang of their colleagues walking by, watching the puddle of the blood?

  13. #463
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    For those who think the politicians aren't listening...


    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/minneapolis-city-council-announces-intent-to-disband-police-department/ar-BB15amCL?li=BBnb7Kz



    Minneapolis City Council announces intent to disband police department

    Estefan Saucedo 1 hr ago

    A veto-proof majority of Minneapolis City Council members announced during a rally at Powderhorn Sunday that they are planning to disband the police department.
    City Council members said they will invest in community-led safety initiatives instead of the police department.

    "Our commitment is to end our city’s toxic relationship with the Minneapolis Police Department, to end policing as we know it, and to re-create systems of public safety that actually keep us safe," Minneapolis City Council President Lisa Bender said at Sunday’s community meeting.

    The council members who took part in the announcement are Cam Gordon, Steve Fletcher, Phillipe Cunningham, Jeremiah Ellison, Andrea Jenkins, Alondra Cano, Lisa Bender and Jeremy Schroeder.
    The announcement comes after various entities such as the University of Minnesota, Minneapolis Public Schools, First Avenue, and others decided to end or limit their relationship with the police department.



    Minneapolis, MN Crime Rates and Statistics ...

    www.neighborhoodscout.com › Minnesota › Minneapolis
    With a crime rate of 50 per one thousand residents, Minneapolis has one of the highest crime rates in America compared to all communities of all sizes.



    Will have to monitor Minneapolis real estate sales and pricing, gun sales, vigilantism and, of course, enrollment at the University of Minnesota – Paul Kersey, Where are you?
    Considering they have one of the highest crime rates in the country you would think they'd kind of NEED a police force..
    I think experiment of defunding and disbanding police forces will end in tears.

  14. #464
    Hansum Man! panama hat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cujo View Post
    Considering they have one of the highest crime rates in the country
    Minneapolis? Serious?

  15. #465
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    Caveat [compared to all communities of all sizes.]

  16. #466
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cujo View Post
    Considering they have one of the highest crime rates in the country you would think they'd kind of NEED a police force..
    I think experiment of defunding and disbanding police forces will end in tears.
    The devil is in the detail.

    They are not eliminated policing. They are disbanding the predominately white police force.

    They actually came out with sensible solutions like, you know, using traffic cameras to issue tickets rather than pulling black drivers over and killing them for double parking.

  17. #467
    The Fool on the Hill bowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille View Post
    $$$ always comes first, eh bowie.
    Yup, pretty much. Knee jerk reactions have far reaching consequences. Defunding a police department essentially means you no longer have a police force.

    Ring, ring, yes, I'd like to report a burglary in progress - I'm sorry, we no longer exist, call the mayor's office. Ring, ring, you have reached the mayor's office, our normal hours of operation are 9 AM to 4 PM.

    So, all calls go to 911 which refers them to the State Police, will they respond, yes, but, how long will it take them to respond???

    Far reaching consequences, insurance companies are statistical data-miners. Of importance are crime rates, police response, etc. No police force, increased crime rate, home owners insurance goes through the roof to almost unaffordable rates. Can't afford homeowners insurance, try and get a mortgage. Can't get a mortgage, can't buy a property in the city limits. Less residents more taxes.

    Now, of course, the monies saved on police salaries paid out - will be funding, or, in their terms, invested in community-led safety initiatives. Any guess on ROI and how long it will take, if ever, to achieve the breakeven point.


    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    Minneapolis? Serious?
    Yes, go ahead, take a look.

    The city of Minneapolis already has a ridiculous crime rate, see the actual crime statistics at this link:
    www.neighborhoodscout.com › Minnesota › Minneapolis, now, this crime rate is with a police force of 800 sworn officers and 300 civilian employees in five precincts.


    So, the town council had a knee jerk reaction and is now on record to disband the police department. Putting 1,100 law enforcement folk onto the unemployment line. However, that will not happen.

    After the protests have died down and people return to normal, about the same time the next crisis diverts the attention of the general public, the town council will announce that disbanding the police force is just not feasible after having studied the issue in length. I do wonder just how many feasibility studies will be conducted at taxpayer expense to reach that conclusion.

  18. #468
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    Actually, without the cameras held in hands of everybody, the police abuses had not been so apparent, hence, no such an outrage of the population. It started in L.A. with King.
    Ban the cameras...

  19. #469
    Hansum Man! panama hat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    Actually, without the cameras held in hands of everybody, the police abuses had not been so apparent
    What? Make sense, thanks

  20. #470
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    without the cameras held in hands of everybody
    Unfortunately be they ordinary citizens or officials expensive, never break, guaranteed cameras, sometimes they do not work, allegedly.

  21. #471
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    Unfortunately be they ordinary citizens or officials expensive, never break, guaranteed cameras, sometimes they do not work, allegedly.
    You're confusing smartphones with Thai CCTV, you dimwit.

  22. #472
    ความรู้ลึกลับ HuangLao's Avatar
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    It ain't rebellin' if you're still drinking what they're sellin'....

  23. #473
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    You're confusing smartphones with
    3 maybe 4 police body cameras actually.

  24. #474
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    For This to Slip Would Be the ‘End of Empire’

    Alastair Crooke

    June 8, 2020


    "A hot humid day, but a gentle, warm breeze is blowing. The smoke and tear gas swirl gently to and fro, hanging in the dense, sweaty air, as shafts of dazzling sunlight scythe through the smokiness at sharp angles. A mass protest is forming. Youths are chattering; people moving aimlessly. It still has not solidified into purpose, yet the raw tenseness of the coming conflict hangs, as palpably as does the smoke in the air. It is evident – there will be violence today.No, this is not America.

    This is the flashpoint crossroad between the radical Jewish settler outpost of Beit El in the West Bank, and its interface with the Palestinian town of Ramallah. Between the two, the Israeli army are ranged, awaiting the hostilities to commence. This was back, during the Second Palestinian Intifada; it was a time of near war, and I was present, charged with observing this, and other unfolding confrontations, on behalf of the EU.

    As usual, I head to the back of the sprawling mob, for it is only from this perspective that one can understand the nature of events. You observe the silent organisation in action. Young men smoothly and unobtrusively, position the piles of stones that later would be hurled (mostly ineffectually) at the soldiers who are stood just beyond the range of stone-throwers.

    Then the protest managers are gone – vanished.

    I know what is about to unfold. I have just seen two snipers (in this instance, Palestinians), slip into position, well-back, concealed on a hillside over-looking the crossroads. It is a sad sight – the young people massing before me are not dangerous; they generally are decent, sincere young people, angry at the expanding settler-occupation, and hyped by the ‘animators’ sent amongst the crowd to stoke emotions. They are not bad young people.

    I am sad, because some, I know, will soon be dead, their families mourning a child’s loss tonight. But they are the fodder – innocent fodder – and this is war. At the height of confrontation, the snipers begin. Just a couple of rounds, but enough; they fire with silenced weapons. The Israelis soldiers cannot tell (unlike me), the source of the firing. A number of Palestinian youth fall dead; the mood incandescent. Purpose achieved.

    Why do I write about these twenty-year old events? Because I know well the patterns. I have seen them often. It is a playbook widely used. And I see familiar tell-tales emerging in the videos posted on the current protests in America.
    Most notable, are the ubiquitous palettes of bricks that mysteriously appear in the background to many videos of the protests (see here for a typical selection). Who is positioning them? Who is paying? U.S. commentator, Michael Snyder, too has noted the “complex network of bicycle scouts to move ahead of demonstrators in different directions of where police were, and where police were not, for purposes of being able to direct groups from the larger group to … where they thought officers would not be.”

    He observes too, the anticipatory raising of bail money; the preparing of medical teams, ready to treat injuries; and of caches of flammable materials (suitable for torching official vehicles), pre-positioned in places where protests would later occur. All this – with simultaneous protests in more than 380 U.S. cities – in my experience, signals much bigger, silent backstage organization. And behind ‘the organisation’, the instigators lie, far back: maybe even thousands of miles back; and somewhere out there will be the financier.

    However, in the U.S., commentators say they see no leadership; the protests are amorphous. That is not unusual to see no leadership – a ‘leadership’ appears only if negotiations are sought and planned; otherwise key actors are to be protected from arrest. The most telling sign of a backstage organisation is that on one day, it is ‘full on’, and the next all is quiet – as if a switch has been pulled. It often has.

    Of course, the overwhelming majority of protestors in the U.S. this last week, were – and are – decent sincere Americans, outraged at George Floyd’s killing and continuing social and institutional racism. Was this then, an Antifa and anarchist operation, as the White House contends? I doubt it – any more than those Palestinian youth in Beit El constituted anything other than fodder for the front of stage. We simply don’t know the backstage. Keep an open mind.

    Tom Luongo presciently suggests that should we wish to understand better the context to these recent events – and not be stuck at stage appearances – we need to look to Hong Kong for indicators.

    Writing in October 2019, Luongo noted that: “What started as peaceful protests against an extradition law and worry over reunification with China has morphed into an ugly and vicious assault on the city’s economic future. [This is] being perpetrated by the so-called “Block Bloc”, roving bands of mask-wearing, police-tactic defying vandals attacking randomly around the city to disrupt people going to work”.

    An exasperated local man exclaims: “Not only you [i.e. Block Bloc protestors are] harming the people making their living in businesses, companies, shopping malls. You’re destroying subway stations. You’re destroying our streets. You’re destroying our hard-earned reputation as a safe, international business centre. You’re destroying our economy”. The man cannot explain why there was not a single police officer in sight, for hours, as the rampage continued.

    What is going on? Luongo quotes a September Bloomberg interview with HK tycoon, Jimmy Lai, billionaire publisher of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) scourge, the Apple Daily, and the highly visible interlocutor of official Washington notables, such as Mike Pence, Mike Pompeo and John Bolton. In it, Lai pronounced himself convinced that if protests in HK turned violent, China would have no choice but to send the People’s Armed Police units from Shenzen into Hong Kong to put down unrest: “That,” Lai said on Bloomberg TV, “will be a repeat of the Tiananmen Square massacre; and that will bring in the whole world against China … Hong Kong will be done, and … China will be done, too”.

    In brief, Lai proposes to ‘burn’ Hong Kong – to ‘save’ Hong Kong. That is, ‘burn it to save it’ from the CCP – to keep its residue in the ‘Anglo-sphere’.

    “Jimmy Lai”, Luongo writes, “is telling you what the strategy is here. The goal is to thoroughly undermine China’s standing on the world stage and raise that of the U.S. This is economic warfare, it’s a hybrid war tactic. And the soldiers are radicalized kids in uniforms bonking old men on the heads with sticks and taunting cops. Sound familiar? Because that’s what’s going on in places like Portland, Oregon with Antifa … And that cause is chaos”. (Recall, Luongo wrote this more than six months ago).
    Well, here we are today: Steve Bannon, closely allied with what he, himself, terms the U.S.’ China super-hawks, and allied with yet another Chinese billionaire financier, Guo Wengui (a fugitive from the Chinese Authorities, and member at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago Club), is pursuing an incandescent campaign of denigration and vitriol against the Chinese Communist Party – intended, like Lai’s campaign, to destroy utterly China’s global standing.

    Here it is again – the tightly-knit band of U.S. and exile super-hawks want to ‘burn’ down the CCP, to ‘save’ what? To save the ‘Empire Waning’ (America), through ‘burning’ the ‘Empire Rising’ (China). Bannon (at least, and to his credit), is explicit about the risk: A failure to prevail in this this info-war mounted against the CCP, he says, will end in “kinetic war”.

    So, back to the U.S. protests, and drawing on Luongo’s insights from Hong Kong – I wrote last week that Trump sees himself fighting a hidden global ‘war’ to retain America’s present dominance over global money (the dollar) – now America’s principal source of external power. For America to lose this struggle to a putative multi-lateral cosmopolitan governance – Trump perceives – would result in the whole, white Anglo-sphere’s ejection from control over the global financial system – and its associated political privilege. It would entail control of the global financial and political system slipping away to an amorphous multi-lateral financial governance, operated by an international institution, or some global Central Bank. Since before WW1, control of global financial governance has been in the hands of the Anglo-American nexus running between London and New York. It still does, just about – albeit that today’s Wall Street elite is cosmopolitan, rather than Anglo, yet still it is firmly anchored to Washington, via the Fed and the U.S. Treasury. For this to slip would be the ‘end of Empire’.

    To maintain the status of the dollar, Trump therefore has assiduously devoted himself to disrupting the multi-lateral global order, sensing this danger to the unique privileges conveyed by control of the world’s monetary base. His particular concern would be to see a Europe that was umbilically-linked to the financial and technological heavy-weight that is China. This, in itself, effectively would presage a different world financial governance.

    But, is the fear that the threat principally lies with Europe’s Soros-style vision justified? There may – just as well – be a fifth-column at home. The billionaires’ club of the very rich has long ceased to be culturally ‘Anglo’. It has become a borderless, ‘self-selecting’, governing entity unto itself.

    Perhaps an earlier ‘end of Époque’ metamorphosis shows us how readily an old-established elite can swap horses in order to survive. In the historical Sicilian novel, The Leopard, Prince Salina’s nephew tells his uncle that the old order is ‘done’, and with it, the family is ‘done’ too, unless … “Unless we ourselves take a hand now, they’ll foist a republic on us. If we want things to stay as they are, things will have to change”.

    It is clear that some billionaire oligarchs – whether American or not – can see the ‘writing on the wall’: A financial crisis is coming. And so, too, is a social one. A recent survey done by one such member, showed that 55% of American millennials supported the end to the capitalist system. Perhaps the brotherhood of billionaires is thinking that ‘unless we ourselves take a hand now, they’ll foist socialism on us’. If we want things to stay as they are, things will have to change. The recent disorder in the U.S. will have unnerved them further.

    The push towards radical change – towards that global financial, political and ecological governance that threatens dollar hegemony – paradoxically may emerge from within: from within America’s own financial elite. ‘Burning’ the dollar’s privileged global status may become seen as the price for things to stay as they are – and for the elite to be saved. The future of Empire hangs on this issue: Can U.S. dollar hegemony be preserved, or might the financial ‘nobility’ see that things must change – if they to stay as they are? That is, the Revolution may come from within – and not necessarily from abroad.

    In recent days, Trump has pivoted to being the President of ‘Law and Order’ – a shift which he explicitly connected to 1968, when, in response to protests in Minneapolis after the police suffocation last week of George Floyd, Trump tweeted: “When the looting begins, the shooting starts”. These were the words used by Governor George Wallace, the segregationist third-party candidate, in the 1968 Presidential election: Republicans launched their “southern strategy” to win over resentful white Democrats after the civil rights revolution.

    Trump is determined to prevail – but today is not 1968. Can a Law and Order platform work now? U.S. demography in the south has shifted, and it is not clear that the liberal, urban electorates of America would sign up to a law-and-order platform, which implicitly appeals to white anxieties?

    In a sense, President Trump finds himself between a rock and a hard place. If the protests are not quelled, and “the right normal (not) restored” (as per Esper’s words), Trump may lose those remaining ‘law and order’ conservatives. But, were he to lose control and over-react using the military, then it may be Trump who has his own ‘Tiananmen Square’ – one, which Jimmy Lai (gleefully) predicted in Hong Kong’s case would bring in the whole world against China: “Hong Kong will be done, and … China will be done, too.”

    Or, in this instance, Trump might be done, and … the U.S. too."

    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2020/06/08/for-this-to-slip-would-be-the-end-of-empire/


    http://themostimportantnews.com/arch...-united-states
    Last edited by OhOh; 08-06-2020 at 10:06 PM.
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

  25. #475
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    3 maybe 4 police body cameras actually.
    You're right, it's difficult to tell what your puppy meant when he said:

    without the cameras held in hands of everybody

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