Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 126 to 150 of 153
  1. #126
    Thailand Expat
    NamPikToot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    With the Burpas
    Posts
    7,511
    But but Dill, Sausages has already stated there was zero chance of any explosives being involved so its obvious the jacket was fake.
    I mean can anyone think of a recent incident where explosives were involved...ermm... nope, never happened.

  2. #127
    Member
    harrybarracuda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Last Online
    Today @ 11:47 AM
    Posts
    62,491
    Quote Originally Posted by Dillinger View Post
    Tasering someone wearing a potential bomb is standard operating procedure?
    I think he saw some drama series on the telly and thought it was a documentary.


  3. #128
    Ex TD Fat Club VP Dillinger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    29,800
    He's a bit of an animal on the BTS




  4. #129
    Thailand Expat Pragmatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    Last but who gives a shit.
    Posts
    11,859
    Quote Originally Posted by Dillinger View Post
    Tasering someone wearing a potential bomb is standard operating procedure?
    Can a 'Tazer' set of a suicide vest? From July 2005. https://www.schneier.com/blog/archiv...t-to-kill.html

    Shoot-to-Kill

    We've recently learned that London's Metropolitan Police has a shoot-to-kill policy when dealing with suspected suicide terrorists. The theory is that only a direct headshot will kill the terrorist immediately, and thus destroy the ability to execute a bombing attack.
    Roy Ramm, former Met Police specialist operations commander, said the rules for confronting potential suicide bombers had recently changed to "shoot to kill"....
    Mr Ramm said the danger of shooting a suspected suicide bomber in the body was that it could detonate a bomb they were carrying on them.
    "The fact is that when you're dealing with suicide bombers they only way you can stop them effectively -- and protect yourself -- is to try for a head-shot," he said.
    This policy is based on the extremely short-sighted assumption that a terrorist needs to push buttons to make a bomb explode. In fact, ever since World War I, the most common type of bomb carried by a person has been the hand grenade. It is entirely conceivable, especially when a shoot-to-kill policy is known to be in effect, that suicide bombers will use the same kind of dead-man's trigger on their bombs: a detonate that is activated when a button is released, rather than when it is pushed.
    This is a difficult one. Whatever policy you choose, the terrorists will adapt to make that policy the wrong one.
    The police are now sorry they accidentally killed an innocent they suspected of being a suicide bomber, but I can certainly understand the mistake. In the end, the best solution is to train police officers and then leave the decision to them. But honestly, policies that are more likely to result in living incarcerated suspects -- and recover well from false alarms -- that can be interrogated are better than policies that are more likely to result in corpses.
    EDITED TO ADD these comments by Nicholas Weaver:
    "One other thing: The suspect was on the ground, and immobilized. Thus the decision was made to shoot the suspect, repeatedly (7 times) in the head, based on the perception that he could have been a suicide attacker (who dispite being a suicide attacker, wasn't holding a dead-man's switch. Or heck, wire up the bomb to a $50 heart-rate monitor).
    "If this is policy, it is STUPID: There is an easy way for the attackers to counter it, and when you have a subway execution of an innocent man, the damage (in the hearts and minds of british muslims) is immense.
    "One thing to remember:
    "These were NON uniformed officers, and the suspect was brasilian (and probably didn't speak very good english).
    "Why did he run? What would YOU do if three individuals accosted you, speaking a language which you were unfamiliar with, drawing weapons? You would RUN LIKE HELL!
    "I find the blaming the victim ('but he was running!') reprehensible."
    ANOTHER EDIT: The consensus seems to be that he spoke English well enough. I don't think we can blame the officers without a whole lot more details about what happened, and possibly not even then. Clearly they were under a lot of stress, and made a split-second decision.
    But I think we can reasonably criticize the shoot-to-kill policy that the officers were following. That policy is a threat to our security, and our society.

  5. #130
    Ex TD Fat Club VP Dillinger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    29,800
    Quote Originally Posted by Pragmatic View Post
    Can a 'Tazer' set of a suicide vest? From July 2005.
    Where does it mention anything about tasers in there?

    I was just picturing theGent trying to handcuff Achmed and taser a bomb

    There are taser proof vests out there now too

    An Arizona inventor has been granted a patent on his Taser-proof fabric, which he intends to sell to police officers to protect them from villains toting electric stunguns. However, it has been argued that protective garments of this sort will in fact endanger policemen's lives
    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/1...ests_malarkey/

  6. #131
    Thailand Expat Pragmatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    Last but who gives a shit.
    Posts
    11,859
    Quote Originally Posted by Dillinger View Post
    Where does it mention anything about tasers in there?
    It doesn't. It's a question I ask. The link I posted should have been separated from that question. Sorry.

  7. #132
    Thailand Expat

    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 05:35 PM
    Posts
    13,275
    In the course of the melee one officer tasered him, but it's charge bounced off the suicide vest packed full of C4 explosives Usman had bought earlier from SuicideVests'RUs in the Tottemham Court Road.

    Har, har.

    In the fourteen years of islamic terrorist activity in the UK the security forces have encountered not a single viable suicide vest in the course of their investigations which is precisely the number of suicide bombers worldwide who smuggled themselves into populous places intent on killing as many targets as possible but who first launched a homicidal knife attack before detonating their explosives secreted about their person.

    You dozy adolescent clots.

  8. #133
    Thailand Expat jabir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    9,140
    It's easy to second guess any high adrenalin situation after the event, great strategy to back every winner after they're weighed in.

    Whatever policy you choose, the terrorists will adapt to make that policy the wrong one.
    Makes sense, to cause hesitation, confuse, fear of error, political and career repercussions, and ultimately to bleed the resources of the superior military force by capitalising on its values and principles, using tactics that cannot be defeated over the long haul by attacking soft targets.

    As in this case, whatever the response there will always be contention to be protested by rights and advocacy groups, agitators and invariably parts of the msm to create friction, and manipulated to drive a wedge between Muslims and non-Muslims. Even at the lower end of the www, there will always be some that advocate whatever action was not taken by trained personnel at the scene.

    But beyond this case and the minor objective of actually killing people, the end results are intended to bleed the resources and effectiveness of a superior military, instil fear and uncertainty on the streets, embarrass politicians and government agencies, and to intimidate the security apparatus by making them reluctant to act decisively in future high drama situations. And each time an officer is investigated or otherwise scapegoated for doing their job, these effects are magnified.

    the end, the best solution is to train police officers and then leave the decision to them.
    Imo it's not the best solution, it's the only solution, short of the absurd image of front line forces at a fast moving scene prevented from engaging without requesting political clearance before every move.

  9. #134
    Thailand Expat jabir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    9,140
    Quote Originally Posted by Seekingasylum View Post
    In the course of the melee one officer tasered him, but it's charge bounced off the suicide vest packed full of C4 explosives Usman had bought earlier from SuicideVests'RUs in the Tottemham Court Road.

    Har, har.

    In the fourteen years of islamic terrorist activity in the UK the security forces have encountered not a single viable suicide vest in the course of their investigations which is precisely the number of suicide bombers worldwide who smuggled themselves into populous places intent on killing as many targets as possible but who first launched a homicidal knife attack before detonating their explosives secreted about their person.

    You dozy adolescent clots.
    In the years before those fourteen you mention, the security forces also encountered not a single case of Islamic terrorist activity in the UK.

    Because there wasn't any, does your mind translate that to mean there won't be any?

  10. #135
    The Fool on the Hill bowie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    นนทบุรี
    Posts
    4,649
    Quote Originally Posted by Seekingasylum View Post
    In the fourteen years of islamic terrorist activity in the UK the security forces have encountered not a single viable suicide vest
    Well - there's always gotta be a first time - who'da thunk they would crash hijacked jetliners into skyscrapers?

    As far as tasers - since a common method of triggering an IED is with a cell phone - and since...

    Taser: Once the electrodes hit their target, the Taser sends a pulse with about 50,000 volts and a few milliamps. On its standard setting, the pulse cycles for five seconds before shutting off.

    ... why would one NOT believe a taser could possibly detonate a suicide vest packed with explosives?


    And, as per the specific incident this thread refers to - only those who have been in a similar situation can understand the actions and motivation of the officers involved - they are responding to a situation involving deaths and casualties, intend on preventing additional deaths and casualties, full of adrenaline - really doubt they took the time to discuss the perpetrators rights and the possibility of the vest being a fake.

    FFS - in a life and death situation the vest is REAL until proven otherwise - the perpetrator was intend on harming and killing people - he does not deserve the benefit-of-doubt.

    KUDO's to the officers - saved the brits a bunch of trial and legal defense money

  11. #136
    Thailand Expat

    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 05:35 PM
    Posts
    13,275
    You miss the point, you know he hasn't got a fucking suicide vest on because if he had he wouldn't be thrashing about with a fucking knife and scrabbling about in the dirt, but would detonate it at the optimum time unbeknownst to anyone and before you even had time to consider what to have for lunch.
    That's how they work.

    In the real world.

    Essentially, if he is pratting about, slicing folk up with a machete while shouting his Allah Akbar bollocks, he ain't got nothing else other than his dick.

    Most halfway intelligent security folk and coppers know this, even if some of their more stupid colleagues recruited from the "other ranks" cannot figure it out, but all are content to use the hoax as a legitimate pretext to carry out an extra-judicial shoot-to-kill policy.

    As I said several times before, I'm personally fine with this strategy when dealing with Islamic nutters but I dislike the nonsense that the security forces " couldn't know it was a dummy suicide vest", that's just pap for you folk and the saps that believed the rubbish painted on a big red bus by BoJo the Liar.

  12. #137
    The Fool on the Hill bowie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    นนทบุรี
    Posts
    4,649
    The security forces did not have a trial nor do an investigation to uncover pertinent facts concerning the incident prior to responding. 100% hindsight by bleeding hearts is naught more than fodder for anti-government suppressing peoples rights rhetoric - i agree with your post less the

    Quote Originally Posted by Seekingasylum View Post
    you know he hasn't got a fucking suicide vest on
    because NO you do NOT know for a fact that the vest is a fake - in fact, who cares - if he was attempting a suicide-by-cop, well, congratulations to him for succeeding - guess what - he's dead - and the world is a better place.

  13. #138
    Thailand Expat

    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 05:35 PM
    Posts
    13,275
    I rather think I have leant against more intelligent trees.

  14. #139
    Member
    harrybarracuda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Last Online
    Today @ 11:47 AM
    Posts
    62,491
    Quote Originally Posted by Seekingasylum View Post
    I rather think I have leant against more intelligent trees.
    I think you've had conversations with them and they've got bored listening.

  15. #140
    Member
    harrybarracuda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Last Online
    Today @ 11:47 AM
    Posts
    62,491
    Quote Originally Posted by Pragmatic View Post
    Can a 'Tazer' set of a suicide vest? From July 2005. https://www.schneier.com/blog/archiv...t-to-kill.html


    This policy is based on the extremely short-sighted assumption that a terrorist needs to push buttons to make a bomb explode.
    Er... no it wasn't. It was based on intelligence shared from Israeli and Sri Lankan security services, both of whom had a great deal of experience dealing with suicide bombers.

    Nothing was "assumed" at all, it was tried and tested.

  16. #141
    Member
    harrybarracuda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Last Online
    Today @ 11:47 AM
    Posts
    62,491
    Quote Originally Posted by Seekingasylum View Post
    As I said several times before
    And been wrong every.single.time.

  17. #142
    Thailand Expat
    Klondyke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Last Online
    Today @ 09:34 AM
    Posts
    5,667
    How such a suicide vest is indicated that anybody can see it and will be on alert?

  18. #143
    Thailand Expat HermantheGerman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Last Online
    04-12-2019 @ 01:18 PM
    Location
    Germany/Satthahip
    Posts
    5,101
    Quote Originally Posted by Seekingasylum View Post
    You miss the point, you know he hasn't got a fucking suicide vest on because if he had he wouldn't be thrashing about with a fucking knife and scrabbling about in the dirt, but would detonate it at the optimum time unbeknownst to anyone and before you even had time to consider what to have for lunch.
    That's how they work.
    In the real world.

    This is the real world calling Seekingclueless...come in clueless. Are you there or still spaced out on cheap alcohol ? Please come in clueless.
    You are wrong again as always !

    https://www.972mag.com/watch-israeli...xplosive-belt/

    The man, who was standing alongside the journalists while filming the demonstration on his phone, ran over to the officers and stabbed one of them with a small knife, wounding him lightly, upon which the officers opened fire and seriously wounded the man. As he hit the ground, the man revealed a suicide vest strapped to his body underneath a large coat, causing the officers to retreat.

  19. #144
    Thailand Expat

    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 05:35 PM
    Posts
    13,275
    And if you believe that propagandising bullshit then you're a dumber kraut than we took you for.

  20. #145
    Member
    Bettyboo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Last Online
    Today @ 01:39 AM
    Location
    Bangkok
    Posts
    31,072
    Quote Originally Posted by Seekingasylum View Post
    And if you believe that propagandising bullshit then you're a dumber kraut than we took you for.
    We???

    You may have Cyrille agree with you from time to me, but that's it; there's no 'we' for you, Mr Sausage.

    Herman and Bowie are spot on. A murderer was shot dead before he could kill more people, end of. There's no propaganda here.

  21. #146
    Thailand Expat Pragmatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    Last but who gives a shit.
    Posts
    11,859
    'TheGents' is a 'Corbynite' and supports terrorism.

  22. #147
    Thailand Expat
    taxexile's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    15,699
    'TheGents' is a 'Corbynite' and supports terrorism.

    ignore him, he's just pining dewy-eyed for the good old days when the ira ran around unhindered by such inconveniences as 24/7 news coverage, instant video, health and safety, human rights, and political correctness.

    now, like him, they are grey haired slipper wearing old geezers with creaky joints and leaky bladders confined to high backed armchairs sipping milky tea and watching flog it before nodding off to sweet dreams of punishment beatings, kneecappings and the maimed innocents of their bombings.

  23. #148
    Thailand Expat HermantheGerman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Last Online
    04-12-2019 @ 01:18 PM
    Location
    Germany/Satthahip
    Posts
    5,101
    Quote Originally Posted by Bettyboo View Post
    We???

    You may have Cyrille agree with you from time to me, but that's it; there's no 'we' for you, Mr Sausage.

    Herman and Bowie are spot on. A murderer was shot dead before he could kill more people, end of. There's no propaganda here.
    Well, thank you Bettyboo

    And a peacfull Merry X-Mas to you

  24. #149
    Thailand Expat HermantheGerman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Last Online
    04-12-2019 @ 01:18 PM
    Location
    Germany/Satthahip
    Posts
    5,101
    Quote Originally Posted by Seekingasylum View Post
    And if you believe that propagandising bullshit then you're a dumber kraut than we took you for.

    There is not such thing as killing or excecuting a convicted terrorist nowadays. Why is that so hard for you to understand. You can read on the world news (even russian or chinese), no one gives a flying fu** about a dead terrorist except you and a few clows here on TD.

    You are getting older and its getting harder for you to comprehend.
    You are getting older and its harder for you to grasp reality.
    Lay back and enjoy the rest of your Life. Don't read anymore news because you are clearly not getting the point.
    The times they are a changin....old Man.

  25. #150
    Thailand Expat HermantheGerman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Last Online
    04-12-2019 @ 01:18 PM
    Location
    Germany/Satthahip
    Posts
    5,101
    Quote Originally Posted by HermantheGerman View Post
    There is not such thing as killing or excecuting a convicted terrorist nowadays. Why is that so hard for you to understand. You can read on the world news (even russian or chinese), no one gives a flying fu** about a dead terrorist except you and a few clows here on TD.

    You are getting older and its getting harder for you to comprehend.
    You are getting older and its harder for you to grasp reality.
    Lay back and enjoy the rest of your Life. Don't read anymore news because you are clearly not getting the point.
    The times they are a changin....old Man.


    P.S. and if it makes you feel any better, it happens to the best of us. Some earlier some later .

Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •