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  1. #26
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Latindancer View Post
    Did SMS Records Prove Julian Assange Was Framed By Police ?

    Don't be fucking silly.

  2. #27
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    Exposing War Crimes Should Always Be Legal. Committing And Hiding Them Should Not.



    US announces 17 new espionage charges against WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange-0-dpkebmpfjtxgtfnd-jpg


    "The Kafkaesque extradition trial of WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange continues, with each frustrating day making it clearer than the day before that what we are watching is nothing other than a staged performance by the US and UK governments to explain why it’s okay for powerful governments to jail journalists who expose inconvenient truths about them.The Assange defense team is performing admirably, making the arguments they need to make to try and prevent an extradition that will set a precedent which will imperil press freedoms and creating a chilling effect on all adversarial national security investigative journalism around the world. These arguments appear to fall on deaf ears before Judge Vanessa Baraitser, who has from the beginning been acting like someone who has already made up her mind and who has been reading from pre-written judgements at the trial regardless of the points presented to her (an unusual behavior made all the more suspicious by her supervision under Chief Magistrate Emma Arbuthnot, who has a massive conflict of interest in this case).

    And while it is essential to fight this fight with every intention of winning, I’d also like to issue a friendly reminder that this entire trial is illegitimate at its very foundation.

    US announces 17 new espionage charges against WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange-assage-jpg



    Amid all the pedantic squabbling over when it is and is not legal under US law for a journalist to expose evidence of US war crimes, we must never lose sight of the fact that (A) it should always be legal to expose war crimes, (B) it should always be illegal for governments to hide evidence of their war crimes, (C) war crimes should always be punished, (D) people who start criminal wars should always be punished, (E) governments should not be permitted to have a level of secrecy that allows them to start criminal wars, and (F) power and secrecy should always have an inverse relationship to one another.

    The Assange case needs to be fought tooth and claw, but we must keep in mind that it is so very, very many clicks back from where we need to be as a civilization. In an ideal situation the public should have governments too afraid of them to keep secrets from them; instead here we are begging the most powerful government in the world to please not imprison a journalist because he arguably did not break the rules that that government made for itself.

    Do you see how far that point is from where we need to be?

    It’s important to remember this. It’s important to remember that the amount of evil deeds power structures will commit is directly proportional to the amount of information they are permitted to hide from the public. We will not have a healthy world until power and secrecy have an inverse relationship to each other: privacy for rank-and-file individuals and transparency for governments and their officials.

    “But what about military secrets?” one might object. Yes, what about military secrets? What about the fact that virtually all military violence perpetrated by the world’s largest power structures?

    What about the utterly indisputable fact that the more secrecy we allow the war machine the more wars it deceives the public into allowing it to initiate?

    In a healthy world, the most powerful government on earth wouldn’t be trying to squint at its own laws in such a way that permits a prosecution of a journalist for telling the truth.

    In a healthy world, the most powerful government on earth wouldn’t prosecute anyone for telling the truth at all.

    In a healthy world, governments would prosecute their own war crimes instead of those who expose them.

    In a healthy world, governments wouldn’t commit war crimes at all.

    In a healthy world, governments wouldn’t start wars at all.

    In a healthy world, governments would see truth as something to be desired and actively sought, not something to be repressed and punished.

    In a healthy world, governments wouldn’t keep secrets from the public, and wouldn’t have any cause to want to.

    In a healthy world, if governments existed at all, they would exist solely as tools for the people to serve themselves, with full transparency and accountability to the people.

    We are obviously a very, very far cry from the kind of healthy world we would all like to one day find ourselves in. But we should always keep in mind what a healthy world will look like, and hold it as our true north for the direction that we are pushing in."

    https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/exposing-war-crimes-should-always-be-legal-committing-and-hiding-them-should-not-e58d70c78791

    For a daily taste of the "trial" see:

    Your Man in the Public Gallery: Assange Hearing Day 13


    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/

    Also here:

    The War on Assange is a War on Truth


    Written by Ron Paul

    Monday September 21, 2020

    http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/arch...-war-on-truth/
    Last edited by OhOh; 22-09-2020 at 03:28 PM.
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

  3. #28
    Thailand Expat Latindancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    These arguments appear to fall on deaf ears before Judge Vanessa Baraitser, who has from the beginning been acting like someone who has already made up her mind and who has been reading from pre-written judgements at the trial regardless of the points presented to her (an unusual behavior made all the more suspicious by her supervision under Chief Magistrate Emma Arbuthnot, who has a massive conflict of interest in this case).

    Oh, what a tangled web they weave

  4. #29
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Ron Paul.

    If there was ever going to be a fucking retard who would follow that idiot, it would be HooHoo.

  5. #30
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    Presidents, ex-presidents & political leaders add names to growing list calling for an end to Assange persecution
    21 Sep, 2020

    A further 11 current and former world leaders have joined an ever-growing list of politicians calling for an end to the political and legal persecution of journalist and Wikileaks founder Julian Assange.

    Argentinian President Alberto Fernández and Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro have added their names to an open letter to the UK government, calling for an end to Assange’s persecution.

    The message has now been signed by 167 ministers, former heads of state and members of parliament. It is addressed to UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson and warns Britain against violating domestic, international and human rights law by extraditing the WikiLeaks founder to the United States.

    Other notable names on the list include former UK Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn, former prime minister of Spain Jose Luis Zapatero, ex-Colombian president Ernesto Samper, Bolivia's ex-president Evo Morales, former Ecuadorian president Rafael Correa and former presidents of Brazil, Lula da Silva and Dilma Roussef.

    Lula, himself a former political prisoner, said that “If the democrats of the planet Earth, including all journalists, all lawyers, all unionists and all politicians have no courage to express themselves in defence of Assange, so that he is not extradited, it means we have a lot [of] democrats out there who are liars.”

    UK MP Kenneth MacAskill, a lawyer and former Justice Secretary of Scotland, described it as “a political crucifixion not legal process” that seeks “to bury truth and those exposing it.”

    Rights groups including Amnesty International, the Council of Europe, The American Civil Liberties Union, Reporters Without Borders and Human Rights Watch have long advocated for amnesty for Assange, citing the dangerous precedent any extradition would set for journalists around the world.

    Amnesty International's petition calling for an end to the extradition hearings has garnered over 400,000 signatures. The group has also raised concerns that its international monitors are being blocked from observing the hearings.

    The ‘Lawyers for Assange’ group originally published the open letter back in August but support has grown considerably in the interim as Assange's extradition trial languishes in bureaucratic and judicial purgatory, with repeated technical issues and deferrals due to possible Covid-19 infections among the legal teams.

    “The broad and vague nature of the allegations against Julian Assange, and of the offences listed in the indictment, are troubling as many of them concern activities at the core of investigative journalism in Europe and beyond,” the letter reads.

    Meanwhile, Assange’s extradition hearing continues at the Old Bailey in London. If the judge rules against him, he will likely be shipped across the Atlantic where he faces over 17 charges under the Espionage Act for handling state secrets and classified information in addition to allegedly assisting Chelsea Manning to hack into government computers.

    Presidents, ex-presidents & political leaders add names to growing list calling for an end to Assange persecution — RT World News

  6. #31
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Oh, and the puppy of course.

  7. #32
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    Hang your head in shame Australia. National disgrace.

  8. #33
    Thailand Expat Latindancer's Avatar
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    If there was ever a time for storming the Bastille, it is now (or after he gets screwed, anyway).

  9. #34
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    The prosecution of Assange gives the anti US empire side their martyr.

    Just imagine the currency it would give the empire if they opened Assanges jail cell and gave him 48 hours to get lost. The anti US side would gasp and lose its martyr. I am anti US empire but I've never been a big fan of Assange.

    But they won't do that.

  10. #35
    Thailand Expat jabir's Avatar
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    Assange is a journalist, and their job is supposed to include investigation and exposure of wrongdoing. What's going on is an attack upon not just the right to expose those that believe they are above the law, but also a collective assassination of those that do their job too well.

  11. #36
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabir View Post
    Assange is a journalist, and their job is supposed to include investigation and exposure of wrongdoing. What's going on is an attack upon not just the right to expose those that believe they are above the law, but also a collective assassination of those that do their job too well.
    So he took stolen documents from one party in the US, fed to him by the Russians, and leaked them regularly to influence the election, and you call him a "journalist"?

    Fuck him. 157 years is about right.

  12. #37
    Thailand Expat jabir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    So he took stolen documents from one party in the US, fed to him by the Russians, and leaked them regularly to influence the election, and you call him a "journalist"?

    Fuck him. 157 years is about right.
    I wasn't happy that he endangered many lives by releasing material. I was pleased enough that he embarrassed the culprits and demonstrated they are not bulletproof, though they're still rich and free and not in jail; but I'm also not happy with the way he has been and is being treated.

    Afaik he hasn't disclosed his sources, except perhaps to you, and that is why the Americans are pissed off. Should he wish to do a deal that allows him to walk, all he has to do is disclose those sources and the means. So yes it could be the Russians, or Chinese, Brits and or anyone else, and until we know if we ever do, might as well finger the Russians.

    But you miss the point, which is that international extradition exempts offences of a political character, while the Brit gov is collaborating with the Americans to extradite Assange for alleged political offences, despite that provision.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    and leaked them regularly to influence the election
    Wondering how exposing of atrocities could influence the election...

  14. #39
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabir View Post
    I wasn't happy that he endangered many lives by releasing material. I was pleased enough that he embarrassed the culprits and demonstrated they are not bulletproof, though they're still rich and free and not in jail; but I'm also not happy with the way he has been and is being treated.

    Afaik he hasn't disclosed his sources, except perhaps to you, and that is why the Americans are pissed off. Should he wish to do a deal that allows him to walk, all he has to do is disclose those sources and the means. So yes it could be the Russians, or Chinese, Brits and or anyone else, and until we know if we ever do, might as well finger the Russians.

    But you miss the point, which is that international extradition exempts offences of a political character, while the Brit gov is collaborating with the Americans to extradite Assange for alleged political offences, despite that provision.
    You miss the point. He took the contents of Dem's private emails from Putin and leaked them to influence the election.

    He's nothing more than a Putin stooge.

    If someone did the reverse, do you think Putin would be entertaining a conversation about the fairness of it all?

  15. #40
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    Ahh yes.

    A non-American.

    That's never been to America.

    Being charged with breaking American law.


    By posting the truth about American government and military actions.


    Amazing.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    ...leaked them regularly to influence the election
    Should the leaking of atrocities have influenced the election, then nobody would vote: "These people who are doing that, I should vote for?"

  17. #42
    Thailand Expat jabir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    You miss the point. He took the contents of Dem's private emails from Putin and leaked them to influence the election.
    You're absolutely sure of that, right? Just asking, because western intelligence agencies are still trying to figure it out, which is why they're hounding Assange in the hope that he spills the beanz. Note that before the 2016 election, Comey (or Brennan) said he believes at least 5 foreign govs had hacked the Dem's (and Clinton's) emails. Could've saved everyone a lot of grief if the Dems used a stronger password than password.

    So, did Trump steal the election, and was it due to Assange's influence, or Putin's, or another gov?


    He's nothing more than a Putin stooge.
    He may or may not be, so we should presume he is and circumvent the law to put him away for life.

    If someone did the reverse, do you think Putin would be entertaining a conversation about the fairness of it all?
    We could speculate, but afaik nobody did.

  18. #43
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    Journalism is not a criminal act....

  19. #44
    Thailand Expat jabir's Avatar
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    Wikileaks published information which is journalism, and better quality journalism than the shit we're fed daily by the msm. Assange may have acted unwisely in releasing data that could harm national security, but his hounding is a political circus with govs too deep in to back off now. Best they can hope is to break him, illegally, since what he's already gone through passes cruel and inhumane treatment bordering on the UN definition of torture. Still, that hasn't worked well to date, but their best bet is that he spills what he knows, to give them an 'honourable' way out, because, the longer this public witch hunt continues the more people start wondering wtf, you did wrong, he exposed you, so you slaughter him?

    And all to send a message to the next whistle-blower; if that's not political, what is?

    Instead of high ranking politicians being held to account in our age of 'transparent democracy', they let the arsonist go and persecute the guy that raised the alarm.

  20. #45
    ความรู้ลึกลับ HuangLao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabir View Post
    Wikileaks published information which is journalism, and better quality journalism than the shit we're fed daily by the msm. Assange may have acted unwisely in releasing data that could harm national security, but his hounding is a political circus with govs too deep in to back off now. Best they can hope is to break him, illegally, since what he's already gone through passes cruel and inhumane treatment bordering on the UN definition of torture. Still, that hasn't worked well to date, but their best bet is that he spills what he knows, to give them an 'honourable' way out, because, the longer this public witch hunt continues the more people start wondering wtf, you did wrong, he exposed you, so you slaughter him?

    And all to send a message to the next whistle-blower; if that's not political, what is?

    Instead of high ranking politicians being held to account in our age of 'transparent democracy', they let the arsonist go and persecute the guy that raised the alarm.

    Well said.
    As most still aren't getting it.
    Some will never.

    Cheers.


  21. #46
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    Yawwwn, the all seeing, all Omnipotent Lord Putin again. No doubt he clubs baby seals in his spare time too.


    FBI Admits It Was Not The Russians – Launches Manhunt For “Insider” Who Leaked CIA Docs To WikiLeaks

    Having exclaimed that WikiLeaks is “a non-state hostile intelligence service often abetted by state actors like Russia,” laying the blame for every embarrassing leak at Moscow’s footsteps, the FBI and CIA have admitted that they are searching for an “insider” (not a Russian) who exposed thousands of top-secret documents that described CIA tools used to penetrate smartphones, smart televisions and computer systems.

    As CBS News reports, a manhunt is underway for a traitor inside the Central Intelligence Agency.

    Sources familiar with the investigation say it is looking for an insider — either a CIA employee or contractor — who had physical access to the material. The agency has not said publicly when the material was taken or how it was stolen.
    Much of the material was classified and stored in a highly secure section of the intelligence agency, but sources say hundreds of people would have had access to the material. Investigators are going through those names.
    The trove was published in March by the anti-secrecy organization WikiLeaks.


    WikiLeaks has said it obtained the CIA information from former contractors who worked for U.S. intelligence. The CIA has not commented on the authenticity of the WikiLeaks disclosures or on the status of the investigation.
    It seems once again that WikiLeaks’ facts were ‘facts’ and CIA/FBI ‘facts’ were ‘fake’.

    FBI Admits It Was Not The Russians - Launches Manhunt For "Insider" Who Leaked CIA Docs To WikiLeaks


    Oh, what a Revelation- the CIA snoops on people, and electronic devices. Like, knock me down with a feather.

  22. #47
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Are you trying to pass this off as current news or are you genuinely that stupid?



    Oh.

  23. #48
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    No, it has been known for a few years. Why are you trying to pass off old lies, long discredited?

    FWIW, I don't actually think you are totally stoopid (ok, maybe a bit dumb), just monumentally ignorant- through choice.

    You do know that Trump offered Assange an immunity deal when he was still in the Bolivian embassy, right?

    Like any ethical journalist (such as Daniel Ellsberg, who would not disclose his 'Deep throat' source), Assange would not dob in the leaker. I doubt he ever will.

  24. #49
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    "Speak of the devil"

    Pentagon Papers leaker Daniel Ellsberg testifies in Assange’s defense, says WikiLeaks exposed ‘war crimes’ in ‘public interest’
    16 Sep, 2020

    Whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg – whose ‘Pentagon Papers’ leak exposed illegal US bombing during the Vietnam War – said Julian Assange would not see a fair trial if extradited to the US, comparing the publisher’s case to his own.

    Testifying at Assange’s extradition hearing on Wednesday, Ellsberg said the WikiLeaks co-founder would be denied a chance to defend himself if sent to the US for a trial, noting that, like in his own case, Assange would not be permitted to argue his publications were in the ‘public interest.’

    “I observe the closest of similarities to the position I faced, where the exposure of illegality and criminal acts institutionally and by individuals was intended to be crushed by the administration carrying out those illegalities,” Ellsberg told the court.

    [Assange] cannot get a fair trial for what he has done under these charges in the United States.
    WikiLeaks disclosures – such as the grisly ‘Collateral Murder’ video, showing an American gunship firing on Iraqi journalists – have exposed evidence of war crimes, the famed whistleblower went on, arguing that Americans had a right to know what their government had done in their name.

    “I was acutely aware that what was depicted in that video deserved the term murder, a war crime,” he said of the ‘Collateral Murder’ footage, adding in his written testimony that the video confronted citizens with the “reality of our war.”

    The American public needed urgently to know what was being done routinely in their name, and there was no other way for them to learn it than by unauthorized disclosure..
    WikiLeaks disclosures – such as the grisly ‘Collateral Murder’ video, showing an American gunship firing on Iraqi journalists – have exposed evidence of war crimes, the famed whistleblower went on, arguing that Americans had a right to know what their government had done in their name.

    “I was acutely aware that what was depicted in that video deserved the term murder, a war crime,” he said of the ‘Collateral Murder’ footage, adding in his written testimony that the video confronted citizens with the “reality of our war.”

    ALSO ON RT.COM
    Snowden warns that Assange extradition will lead free press to slaughterhouse as publisher’s critics blinded by partisanship

    On cross examination, a lawyer acting on behalf of Washington, James Lewis, argued that Assange was not being prosecuted for the infamous video in particular, but rather for publishing the military’s classified rules of engagement in Iraq, among other things. Ellsberg replied that disclosing the rules was necessary to demonstrate the war crimes committed in the video, adding that instead of punishing the soldiers involved, the government was now prosecuting the man who revealed evidence of their wrongdoing.

    Lewis also challenged Ellsberg’s comparison to his own 1971 ‘Pentagon Papers’ leak – in which he passed 7,000 pages of classified documents on the Vietnam War to the press – observing that Ellsberg had withheld information from the disclosure. However, the whistleblower said he had not redacted a single name of an informant or covert CIA agent, and that unlike himself, Assange had withheld some names, and even approached the Defense and State Departments for help in making additional redactions. He was denied, Ellsberg said.

    “So it’s all the governments’ fault then,” Lewis shot back.

    “Yes, they bear a heavy responsibility,” Ellsberg responded, adding that the government’s sudden concern about redactions was “highly cynical” given that officials had rebuffed Assange’s request for assistance.

    ALSO ON RT.COM
    US prosecutors disrupt Spanish probe into alleged CIA-linked firm which spied on Assange

    Ellsberg – a former strategic analyst for RAND Corp. who regularly worked with the State Department and the Pentagon between the 1950s and 1970s – disclosed evidence that the US had illegally expanded its bombing campaign on Vietnam into neighboring Laos and Cambodia, as well as how American officials in four administrations had misled the public about the war effort. Following the leak, Ellsberg was charged with 12 counts under the Espionage Act, the same law underpinning most of Assange’s charges, and faced up to 115 years in prison. His case was ultimately dropped after it was revealed that the government had gathered evidence against him illegally.

    Assange remains in custody at London’s maximum security Belmarsh prison as he awaits a verdict in his extradition case, which is set to last into early October. If sent to the US for trial, the WikiLeaks publisher faces a 175-year prison sentence, charged with 17 counts linked to espionage and computer intrusion over his role in disclosing classified material.

    Pentagon Papers leaker Daniel Ellsberg testifies in Assange’s defense, says WikiLeaks exposed ‘war crimes’ in ‘public interest’ — RT World News

  25. #50
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    Of course, if it was the all-seeing, omnipotent Lord Vlad, the first thing he's gonna do is spill it to Wikileaks, right? D'oohh.
    By some miracle, you have managed to break the encryption code of the world's largest and best funded Intelligence network, of the world's most technologically advanced nation. Undedected.
    So you now have access to their Top Secret database. And they don't even know about it.
    So lets throw a party right, and let the whole world know about it. Like, D'uhh D'uhhh, D'uhhhh.

    Why does common sense and rationality just fly out the window when the Godly power of Darth Putin is invoked. Sure beats me.

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