Thread: Canada arrests Huawei CFO at US request

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Under Chinese law, firms are compelled to "support, co-operate with and collaborate in national intelligence work

Originally Posted by Cujo

They are sneaky fuckers.

Only one countries companies eh.

There is something more behind all of this, something about controlling the future airwaves and so Internet etc.

Who does know something about the future 5G (I do not) will know more what's looming, how it will work and comunicate quite differently than the current waves. (SpaceX, Musk, 7,000 satellites, StarLink, NGSO, FCC, Keppler Comm., TeleSat, LeoSat, etc).

And that's a real threat for all parties...

Originally Posted by OhOh

Only one countries companies eh.

Yes. The Chinkies.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Yes. The Chinkies.

Poor old Uhoh doesn't get it.
Stupid old communist/anti establishment anarchist.

Originally Posted by OhOh

Are you both suggesting that other countries companies "are not compelled/legally bound, to "support with and collaborate in national intelligence work".

They are not compelled/legally bound, to obey government sanctions or laws passed by their home countries governments?

Mate, if you want to find a country's law that matches the one the Chinkies passed, fill your boots.

"Highly likely" is their new law, keep up.

Originally Posted by OhOh

"Highly likely" is their new law, keep up.

Waffling again eh?

Translation: You can't find one. It's only the Chinkies.

It's common knowledge that western countries utilise methods of spying embedded by demand into many commercial operations. Search for yourself.

Originally Posted by OhOh

It's common knowledge that western countries utilise methods of spying embedded by demand into many commercial operations. Search for yourself.

"It's common knowledge..."

Translation: "All of my whackjob websites say...".

Originally Posted by OhOh

It's common knowledge that western countries utilise methods of spying embedded by demand into many commercial operations. Search for yourself.

absolutely, most Telecoms company do

Originally Posted by OhOh

It's common knowledge that western countries utilise methods of spying embedded by demand into many commercial operations. Search for yourself.

Um, no it's not and no they don't.

The Shadow Factory by James Bamford

What We Know About the NSA and AT&T's Spying Pact
https://www.wired.com/2015/08/know-n...s-spying-pact/

https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying

https://www.aclu.org/other/nsa-spying-americans-illegal

The NSA Spied On China's Huawei, Says Edward Snowden | Time

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/front.../telecoms.html

https://theintercept.com/2018/06/25/...-nsa-spy-hubs/


All whackjob websites of course. And 1 whackjob author...James Bamford

the seppos started this with stuxnet - Obama worried about the precedent it would set and it has made this sort of attack normal for nation states

The Perfect Weapon: war, sabotage, and fear in the cyber age by David E. Sanger is worth a read if you are interested in this sort of stuff

Originally Posted by Klondyke

Who does know something about the future 5G

5G is not a evolutionary step in GSM comms - just another step - more antennas and more granular control of power to each antenna

Originally Posted by SKkin

The Shadow Factory by James Bamford

What We Know About the NSA and AT&T's Spying Pact
https://www.wired.com/2015/08/know-n...s-spying-pact/

https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying

https://www.aclu.org/other/nsa-spying-americans-illegal

The NSA Spied On China's Huawei, Says Edward Snowden | Time

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/front.../telecoms.html

https://theintercept.com/2018/06/25/...-nsa-spy-hubs/


All whackjob websites of course. And 1 whackjob author...James Bamford

You do know what the word "law" means, don't you?

Or perhaps you don't.

Originally Posted by baldrick

the seppos started this with stuxnet - Obama worried about the precedent it would set and it has made this sort of attack normal for nation states

It's got fuck all to do with it. Cyber attacks predate stuxnet by many years.

The point is that the chinkies made a LAW saying companies HAVE to spy for them.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

You do know what the word "law" means, don't you?

https://www.cnet.com/news/at-38t-say...ould-be-legal/

James Cicconi, AT&T's senior executive vice president for external and legislative affairs, said there are "very specific federal statutes that prescribe means, in black and white law, for provision of information to the government under certain circumstances."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.27c9735535b6

The FISA Amendments Act, passed in 2008, gave the NSA the power to compel domestic telecommunications providers to cooperate with the NSA's surveillance programs.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

You do know what the word "law" means

Many people do 'arry, although some believe adding the phrase "It's highly Ilkley" absolves them from a matter of such small importance. Leading them to believe they are above the international law system they allegedly cherish and such archaic things.

China says detained Canadian lacks diplomatic immunity

Beijing - China on Monday ridiculed Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's claim that a former Canadian embassy official detained in Beijing still held diplomatic immunity.

Chinese authorities arrested former diplomat Michael Kovrig and businessman Michael Spavor last month, accusing them both of endangering national security.


The move was widely seen as retaliation for Canada's arrest of a top Chinese executive from telecom giant Huawei.


Trudeau on Friday accused China of "arbitrarily and unfairly" detaining the two men and of ignoring Kovrig's "diplomatic immunity" -- earning a scornful rebuke from Beijing.

"The accusations that the Chinese side arbitrarily detains Canadian citizens are unfounded," said foreign ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying at a regular press briefing.



"The relevant people on the Canadian side should seriously learn and study the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations... Don't make specious statements that make a fool of oneself," Hua added.


Persons carrying a diplomatic passport are protected by limited immunity when they are abroad under the terms of the Vienna Convention.


Kovrig was arrested on December 10, after taking leave from his diplomatic posting to work for the International Crisis Group think tank.


Trudeau's statement suggested Kovrig carried a diplomatic passport while on his sabbatical -- which is possible if authorised by Canada's foreign ministry -- but Hua said he was in China on an ordinary travel document with a business visa.


"No matter which angle you look at it from, Michael Kovrig does not have diplomatic immunity," she said. "Kovrig is not currently a diplomat."


Ottawa has called for the Canadians' immediate release, with the backing of the US, EU and several western nations.


Trudeau has also called for China to respect the rule of law and the independence of the judiciary.


Canada should "first take real action to prove that its own judicial system is independent," Hua said.




China says detained Canadian lacks diplomatic immunity

Originally Posted by misskit

the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations

Oh dear China expecting western governments to adhere to outdated and ignored international laws and treaties.When will they get up to speed.

Originally Posted by SKkin

https://www.cnet.com/news/at-38t-say...ould-be-legal/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.27c9735535b6

Good effort son. If only they didn't require warrants before they could do anything, you may have struck a chord.

Originally Posted by OhOh

Oh dear China expecting western governments to adhere to outdated and ignored international laws and treaties.When will they get up to speed.

Either he's got diplomatic immunity or he hasn't. The chinkies can't arbitrarily decide when he has it, it's up to his parent nation.

So they're being a bit fucking dumb.

Canadian Robert Schellenberg sentenced to death in China

A Chinese court on Monday sentenced a Canadian man to death for drug smuggling, a ruling sure to aggravate already sour relations between Beijing and Ottawa following the arrest of a senior Chinese executive in Canada.


Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau condemned the decision.


"It is of extreme concern to us as a government, as it should be to all our international friends and allies, that China has chosen to begin to arbitrarily apply [the] death penalty...as in this case facing a Canadian," he told reporters Monday morning.

The Dalian Intermediate People's Court in China's northeast province of Liaoning re-tried Robert Lloyd Schellenberg, who had appealed against his original 15-year sentence, and decided on execution, the court said in a statement on its website.




Prime Minister Justin Trudeau comments on the death sentence given to Canadian Robert Schellenberg in China 0:35




The ruling will further strain an already tense relationship with Canada in the wake of the Dec. 1 arrest in Vancouver of Meng Wanzhou, chief financial officer of the Chinese telecommunications giant Huawei Technologies Co Ltd, at the request of the United States.


China denounced her arrest, warning of unspecified consequences unless she was released, and has since detained two Canadians on suspicion of endangering state security.

The death sentence was quickly condemned by rights groups.


William Nee, a Hong Kong-based China researcher with Amnesty International, said it was horrified that Schellenberg had been sentenced to death, particularly as drug-related offenses did not meet the threshold of the "most serious crimes" to which the death penalty must be restricted under international law.



"This is all the more shocking given the rushed nature of the retrial, and the deliberate way in which the Chinese authorities drew attention to this case," Nee told Reuters.


Drug smuggling is routinely punished severely in China. Beijing has previously executed foreign nationals convicted of drug-related crimes - a Briton caught smuggling heroin was executed in 2009, prompting a British outcry over what it said was the lack of any mental health assessment.
Schellenberg likely to appeal

Schellenberg was told in court he had the right to appeal to Liaoning High Court within 10 days upon receiving the ruling, the intermediate court said in a second statement.


The court said Schellenberg had conspired with others in an attempt to smuggle 222 kg (489.43 lb) of methamphetamine from China to Australia in late 2014.


The drug syndicate had concealed 222 bags of the drug in plastic pellets when it shipped it from Guangdong to Dalian. Then it planned to conceal it in tires and tubing and ship it via container to Australia, according to the court.


Chinese state television said in an earlier report that Schellenberg argued in court that he was a tourist visiting China and was framed by criminals.


Before his arrest, on Dec. 1, 2014, Schellenberg had prepared to flee to Thailand from Dalian but was arrested when in transit in Guangzhou, the court said.


It did not offer further information about Schellenberg, including his age and occupation, though media reports have said he is 36 years of age and a former oil worker.


A lawyer for Schellenberg, Zhang Dongshuo, told Reuters his client would probably appeal against the death sentence. Schellenberg, who was to have been deported after serving his original sentence, had lodged an appeal after being ordered in Dalian to 15 years in prison on Nov. 20.
Canada will try to intercede

Trudeau said Canada will always intervene when a Canadian is sentenced to death in another country.


The Liaoning High Court in late December ordered the case retried after prosecutors said the sentence was too light and improper.


Beijing considers the number of people executed in China each year to be a state secret. International human rights organizations estimate the figure at around 2,000.


"China is going to face lots of questions about why this particular person, of this particular nationality, had to be retried at this particular time," Human Rights Watch's Washington-based China director Sophie Richardson told Reuters.


Justice Minister David Lametti, who was only just sworn in Monday morning, said he still has to be officially briefed on Meng's extradition case.


"I won't comment specifically, because I may have a role down the road, but I will say that we are a rule of law country, and it's one of our most important principles and as minister of justice and attorney general for Canada I will always act to protect the rule of law," he said.


The Huawei executive has since been released on bail and remains under surveillance as she prepares to fight extradition to the U.S., which accuses her of fraud and lying to banks about business activities in Iran.


Chinese officials haven't called the arrests of Kovrig and Spavor acts of retaliation, but they have pointedly compared the cases, insisting the men were detained in accordance with Chinese laws while maintaining that Meng's arrest was illegal.



https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/sch...hina-1.4976959

Originally Posted by OhOh

I was under the impression, rightly or wrongly, that diplomats posted to a country are required to be accepted by the host country. I presume the diplomat presents themself, credentials/papers and formalities are exchanged leading to the diplomat being accepted, or declined by the host country.

You don't presume, you read and you read wrong.

Ambassadors normally present their credentials. They're not fucking a card that says "I have diplomatic immunity" you lemon. It's a letter from one head of state to another saying that Johnny Ambassador is allowed to speak on their behalf.

If one country says someone has Diplomatic Immunity, the host country is supposed to accept it. If they don't like the feller, e.g. if he has too many parking tickets or is a rapist, then they can ask for his immunity to be removed so that he can face prosecution.

If his nation refuses, they can kick the c u n t out.

What they can't do is ignore diplomatic immunity and arrest someone anyway. Well they can, it just makes them look like dumb fuckers and exposes their own diplomats to the same treatment.

Which was the whole point of the fucking treaty in the first place.

Having said that, such is the desperation of the Chinkies to free their spy, they are now making up rules as they go along.

BEIJING — A Chinese court sentenced a Canadian man to death Monday in a sudden retrial in a drug smuggling case that is likely to escalate tensions between the countries over the arrest of a top Chinese technology executive.

The court in northeastern Liaoning province announced that it had given Robert Lloyd Schellenberg the death penalty after rejecting his plea of innocence and convicting him of being an accessory to drug smuggling. It gave no indication that the penalty could be commuted, but Schellenberg’s fate is likely to be drawn into diplomatic negotiations over China’s demand for the top executive’s release.

Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said in Ottawa that he is extremely concerned that China chose to “arbitrarily” apply the death penalty to a Canadian citizen.

In his strongest comments yet against China, Trudeau said “all countries around the world” should be concerned that Beijing is acting arbitrarily with its justice system.

Schellenberg was detained more than four years ago and initially sentenced to 15 years in prison in 2016. But suddenly last month, an appeals court agreed with prosecutors who said the sentence was too lenient, and scheduled Monday’s retrial with just four days’ notice.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/china-denies-detained-canadian-has-diplomatic-immunity/2019/01/14/5b8ad75c-17e8-11e9-b8e6-567190c2fd08_story.html?utm_term=.0418f37e0c81

If I were a Pole in Chinastan right now, I'd be looking over my shoulder.