Former Russian spy critically ill in Britain after exposure to unidentified substance

**misskit** · 21-03-2018, 05:39 AM

One of the Soviet scientists who developed ‘Novichok’ says there are dozens of people in Russia who still know how to make it

The Bell
22:26, 20 march 2018

The newsletter The Bell published an interview on March 20 with Vladimir Uglev, one of the Soviet scientists at the state chemical research institute known as “GosNIIOKhT,” who helped developed “Novichok” — the nerve agent reportedly used to poison ex-spy Sergey Skripal and his daughter, Yulia, in England, earlier this month. Here are the biggest revelations from the interview:

There are four compounds that combine to form what’s called “Novichok”: A-1972, B-1976, C-1976, and D-1980 (each named after the years they were created).
The substance was developed on orders from the Soviet Defense Ministry to serve as the USSR’s response to VX. Scientists worked on the poison from 1972 to 1988.
There is no antidote to B-1976, C-1976, or D-1980. If Skripal and his daughter were exposed to a near-lethal dose of any one of these substances, then they will die as soon as they’re disconnected from life support.
Novichok’s formula is still known to several dozen people in Russia today.
“Binary weapons,” where two harmless compounds are combined to force a supposedly lethal nerve agent, do not exist, according to Uglev.

Earlier on March 20, the Russian state news agency RIA Novosti published an interview with another scientist at GosNIIOKhT, Leonid Rink, who denies that Russia could be involved in the poisoning of the Skripals.

https://meduza.io/en/feature/2018/03...how-to-make-it

**harrybarracuda** · 21-03-2018, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by misskit

“Binary weapons,” where two harmless compounds are combined to force a supposedly lethal nerve agent, do not exist, according to Uglev.

To save anyone having to debunk the whole load of shite:

Binary components for the three most common nerve agents (American code names are given in brackets) are the following:

Sarin (GB-2): methylphosphoryldifluoride (DF) + isopropanol. The isopropanol is included in a mixture (OPA) with isopropylamine which binds the hydrogen fluoride generated.
Soman (GD-2): methylphosphoryldifluorid (DF) + pinacolylalcohol.
VX-2: O-ethyl O-2-diisopropylaminoethyl methylphosphonite (QL) + sulphur.

https://www.opcw.org/about-chemical-...-agents/#c4114

**cyrille** · 21-03-2018, 11:38 AM

I see that walking expense account Juncker was congratulating Putin yesterday on his win.

What a smug pos he is.

**harrybarracuda** · 21-03-2018, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by cyrille

I see that walking expense account Juncker was congratulating Putin yesterday on his win.

What a smug pos he is.

So did baldy orange cunto. Then again, Putin probably ordered him to.

**david44** · 21-03-2018, 12:05 PM

another view from offguardian

https://off-guardian.org/2018/03/15/...ovichok-story/

Published on March 15, 2018
Comments 122
The farcical reality behind Theresa May’s “novichok” story

22 Votes

We already know UK PM Theresa May misrepresented the Russian law on executing terrorists in foreign lands, in order to bolster her currently evidence-free claims of Russian culpability in the poisoning of ex-MI6 employee Sergey Skripal. Her narrative remains, as of March 15, bald and unconvincing. But it seems things may be about to get even worse for her and what some see as her bid to “Falklandise” her flagging premiership. It seems the “nerve agent” she claims was used to attack Skripal and his daughter may not actually exist.

the 2008 book in which dissident Soviet scientist Vil Mirzayanov published the formula for “novichok” which Theresa May pretends is a secret known only to Russia

Incredible as it may seem given the tale of certitude told by May in Parliament, and given the column inches used up in the media assuring the UK public how terrifyingly toxic “novichok” really is, the evidence for this alleged super-poison’s existence currently rests solely on the unproven claims of a dissident soviet “military chemist” named Vil Mirzayanov.
Mirzayanov told his western handlers a group of new (“novichok” in Russian can be translated as “new stuff” or “new arrival”) and allegedly highly dangerous compounds which he claimed could be created by combining commonly available substances, but it turns out western scientists were far from convinced by his claims, and, even as recently as two years ago, the efficacy and even the existence, of these “novichoks” was still deemed to be entirely speculative.
For example in 2013 the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (the body the UK refuses to work with in the Skripal case) had this to say about the potential reality of novichoks:

Regarding new toxic chemicals not listed in the Annex on Chemicals but which may nevertheless pose a risk to the Convention, the SAB makes reference to “Novichoks”. The name “Novichok” is used in a publication of a former Soviet scientist who reported investigating a new class of nerve agents suitable for use as binary chemical weapons. The SAB states that it has insufficient information to comment on the existence or properties of “Novichoks”Report of the Scientific Advisory Boardon Developments in Science and Technology for The Third Review Conference p. 3, section 8

And again in 2016 Dr Robin Black, former head of the detection laboratory at the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory at Porton Down made the same point:

In recent years, there has been much speculation that a fourth generation of nerve agents, ‘Novichoks’ (newcomer), was developed in Russia, beginning in the 1970s as part of the ‘Foliant’ programme, with the aim of finding agents that would compromise defensive countermeasures. Information on these compounds has been sparse in the public domain, mostly originating from a dissident Russian military chemist, Vil Mirzayanov. No independent confirmation of the structures or the properties of such compounds has been published. Robin Black (Dr), Development, Historical Use and Properties of Chemical Warfare Agents. Royal Society of Chemistry 2016, cited in “Doubts about novichoks” by Piers Robinson & Paul McKeigue

What these publications are effectively saying is – there’s no evidence any of these compounds work in the way claimed and Mirzayanov may very possibly be exaggerating or inventing.
Which raises the question – how did the scientists allegedly sourced by May suddenly feel able to not only identify this previously poorly understood and questionable substance, but identify where it came from and lay claim to it being massively deadly and toxic? As Craig Murray says (our emphasis):

…now, the British Government is claiming to be able instantly to identify a substance which its only biological weapons research centre has never seen before and was unsure of its existence. Worse, it claims to be able not only to identify it, but to pinpoint its origin. Given Dr Black’s publication, it is plain that claim cannot be true.

But that’s not all. There’s also problems with May’s claim that the “novichok” formula is a deep secret, known only to the Russians. Mirzanayov was interviewed by AFP about the Skripal case and this is what he said:

“Only the Russians” developed this class of nerve agents, said the chemist. “They kept it and are still keeping it in secrecy.”

Exactly what May said in Parliament. Great. Just one problem. Mirzayanov neglected to mention that this “secret formula” known only to “the Russians” had been published in 2008 in his own book – still available on Amazon today.

Given the fact that anyone with an internet connection and $8.16 to spend could have obtained the “secret” recipe for novichok (which it seems most scientists don’t think would work anyway), and anyone with a decent professional laboratory could presumably manufacture it (again supposing it even works as claimed) will May correct her deceptive claims to Parliament and the British public?
Will the media continue to help her maintain her crumbling narrative? Are we watching WMD#2 with added depths of cynicism?

**OhOh** · 21-03-2018, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by Neverna

Perhaps his source was the Moon of Alabama website

If you have access to the Times web site, presumably you can confirm the letter. I don't, which disables me from commenting as to whether it is fake or not. The link you provided , because the mass is behind a pay wall, clarifies nothing.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/r...ctor-vf9v0zg0m

As for MOA site, it relies extensively on "published" by reputable sources, to mould it's opinions. The site plus comments page are open to all. many times the commentators provide much interesting info. Not always proven to be correct, but sourced by worldwide commentators and from worldwide publishers of allegedly facts.

**OhOh** · 21-03-2018, 12:51 PM

I know Russia uses similar planes to this one, but does it have any bouncing bombs, to breach the dam of lies and expose the dark secrets of the lake bottom?

Former Russian spy critically ill in Britain after exposure to unidentified substance-5102740618_d754b49478-jpg

Former Russian spy critically ill in Britain after exposure to unidentified substance-5102740618_d754b49478-jpg

**harrybarracuda** · 21-03-2018, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by OhOh

If you have access to the Times web site, presumably you can confirm the letter. I don't, which disables me from commenting as to whether it is fake or not. The link you provided , because the mass is behind a pay wall, clarifies nothing.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/r...ctor-vf9v0zg0m

As for MOA site, it relies extensively on "published" by reputable sources, to mould it's opinions. The site plus comments page are open to all. many times the commentators provide much interesting info. Not always proven to be correct, but sourced by worldwide commentators and from worldwide publishers of allegedly facts.

You forget that sites like this attract whackjobs like yourself, so neither the "worldwide commentators" nor "worldwide publishers" of such fucking nonsense have any credibility.

Further, you continue to either misunderstand or deliberately try to misrepresent the letter, which essentially said that only three people were affected by the nerve agent, the two victims and an attending police officer.

Do try and keep up.

**OhOh** · 21-03-2018, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

which essentially said that only three people were affected by the nerve agent, the two victims and an attending police officer

"Essentially" does not equate to proven by evidence/facts, it again, is your unproven "opinion".

The letter, allegedly published in the Times, states quite clearly "No patients have experienced symptoms of nerve agent poisoning"

The letter, allegedly published in the Times, states quite clearly "three patients with significant poisoning.".

What is not stated is that the poison was a "nerve agent".

As posted by me #334.

But again, I await the report of the OPCW to confirm, or not, my currently held "opinion" being correct. As opposed to the UK government which has already accused Russia of an act of war.

Why await the report, because the UK has previous in starting wars based on lies and slaughtering millions of men, women and children.

**harrybarracuda** · 21-03-2018, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by OhOh

"Essentially" does not equate to proven by evidence/facts, it again, is your unproven "opinion".

The letter, allegedly published in the Times states quite clearly "three patients with significant poisoning.". What is not stated is that the poison was a "chemical weapon", as opposed to the previous sent ace which clearly states none were affected with

Sheesh. People have to talk to you whackjobs as if you're fucking seven year olds. Unless everything is spelt out in capital letters, you see conspiracy theories in everything.

His letter was merely to say that no patients were treated for nerve agent poisoning other than the two victims and the policemen.

I think he if wanted to join you nutters in denying this ever happened, he would have worn a tin foil hat and screamed "It's not a nerve agent, it's Ameristan wibble wibble" or the usual sort of shit you lot come out with.

**Scottish Gary** · 21-03-2018, 05:55 PM

Why would Putin go to the hassle of trying to assassinate an old spy in Britain when he could have killed him when he was in jail in Russia? This is an MI6 job to try and deflect attention away from the governments shambolic handling of Brexit.

**Cujo** · 21-03-2018, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by Scottish Gary

Why would Putin go to the hassle of trying to assassinate an old spy in Britain when he could have killed him when he was in jail in Russia? This is an MI6 job to try and deflect attention away from the governments shambolic handling of Brexit.

**Pragmatic** · 21-03-2018, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by Scottish Gary

This is an MI6 job to try and deflect attention away from the governments shambolic handling of Brexit.

And I thought you to be a knowledgeable fellow.

**Begbie** · 21-03-2018, 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by Scottish Gary

Why would Putin go to the hassle of trying to assassinate an old spy in Britain when he could have killed him when he was in jail in Russia? This is an MI6 job to try and deflect attention away from the governments shambolic handling of Brexit.

Or more likely Russian mafia settling some scores.

**Albert Shagnasty2017** · 21-03-2018, 08:58 PM

It could have been done by any number of "interested parties".

However, in the current climate of ridiculous "It was the Russians!" mania, the smart money would be on it being one of them that wanted to increase the hysteria.

As has been mentioned many times, why would a very smart operator like Putin, shoot himself in the foot over a long time has-been that poses no threat. Especially right before the Russian election.

Theresa May's response has been a genuine embarrasment to the UK, and to be frank, seems even more than a little bit fishy.

**harrybarracuda** · 21-03-2018, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by Scottish Gary

Why would Putin go to the hassle of trying to assassinate an old spy in Britain when he could have killed him when he was in jail in Russia? This is an MI6 job to try and deflect attention away from the governments shambolic handling of Brexit.

As has already been mentioned if you read the whole thread, he was used in a good old fashioned spy swap.

I don't think they'd trade a dead spy for a live one.

**tomcat** · 21-03-2018, 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by Albert Shagnasty2017

Especially right before the Russian election.

...and what a cliffhanger that promised to be...

**OhOh** · 21-03-2018, 11:13 PM

It appears that ameristan knew enough about Novichok to be worried in 1999 and 2001.

Exceptional Chemical Response Articles U.S News & World Report; A mystery at a pesticide plant; Oct 25, 1999, p42

"According to intelligence sources, two former subordinates of retired Gen Anatoly Kuntsevich, the former deputy commander of the Russian Army Chemical Corps, have been reported as being at an Iraqi pesticide plant. Gen Kuntsevich, running afoul of

Russian authorities, illicitly attempted in 1994 to ship chemical weapons components to Syria, with Iraq as the suspected recipient. Alarmingly, according to Mideast intelligence source these two former Russian Army officers, who call themselves civilian agricultural advisers, are experts in a relatively new class of Russian chemical weapons, known as the Novichok group.

These newer compounds, which are at least five times more lethal than the VX nerve gas found in Iraq after the gulf war, can’t be detected by current U.S. sensors, and victims are virtually untreatable."

https://www3.uakron.edu/ander/assets/chemexc.pdf

More worries from 2001 Report by (page 4):

"National Institute for Public Policy is a nonprofit corporation founded in 1981 to promote public education on international issues. National Institute study efforts address a range of topics in national security affairs, including U.S. - Russian relations, weapons proliferation, ballistic missile defense, deterrence theory, long - range air power, and intelligence reform."

Iraq’s Asymmetric Threat to the United States and U.S. Allies

DDr. Kathleen C. Bailey December, 2001

"Another worrisome prospect is that Iraq may have received help from Russian experts to make CW agents several times more lethal than the deadly nerve agent VX. There have been reports that at least two Russian experts formerly associated with the Russian Novichok program have been sighted at an Iraqi chemical facility. 6 Novichok agents are highly lethal, cannot be detected by western chemical warning devices 7 and may be able to render western CW protective gear useless against attack.

U.S. News & World Report "Bad Chemistry: A mystery at a pesticide plant," 25 October 1999. This article stated, in part, " The two Russians, according to intelligence sources, are former subordinates of retired Gen. Anatoly Kuntsevich, the former deputy commander of the Russian Army Chemical Corps. Kuntsevich ran afoul of Russian authorities in an illicit 1994 attempt to ship chemical weapons components to Syria and, investigators suspected, from there to Iraq. United Nations weapons inspectors were tipped off last year that he,or people associated with him, were making overtures to Baghdad."

http://www.nipp.org/wp-content/uploa...symmetry.2.pdf

**Neo** · 21-03-2018, 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

As has already been mentioned if you read the whole thread, he was used in a good old fashioned spy swap.

I don't think they'd trade a dead spy for a live one.

you're making snub seem ingenious in comparison

**OhOh** · 22-03-2018, 04:58 AM

Oh dear, Bumbling Boris has admitted Porton Down has the "Novichok" chemical weapon. Last week the only place that had it was Russia. What will be their new reason to blame Russia.

One wonders who briefs these dumb, lying, fuckwits.

Look in a mirror Boris.

Boris Johnson: Russia's position in Skripal case is 'increasingly bizarre'

Interviewer: "You argue that the source of this nerve agent, Novichok, is Russia.

Bumbling Boris: How did you manage to find it out so quickly? Does Britain possess samples of it?

Bumbling Boris: Let me be clear with you … When I look at the evidence, I mean the people from Porton Down, the laboratory … Interviewer: So they have the samples …

Bumbling Boris: They do. And they were absolutely categorical and I asked the guy myself, I said, "Are you sure?" And he said there's no doubt. We have very little alternative but to take the action that we have taken"

Boris Johnson: Russia?s position in Skripal case is ?increasingly bizarre? | Europe| News and current affairs from around the continent | DW | 20.03.2018

Nerve agent: Who controls the world's most toxic chemicals?

The BBC also admits that anybody may have these chemical weapons, for research purposes, the OPCW allegedly keeps tabs on whose has what. They state
they were never declared by anybody ......

"The Novichoks - those thought to have been used against the Skripals - were never declared to the OPCW, and the chemicals never formed part of any control regime partly because of uncertainty about their chemical structures.

And specific names are crucial, because the CWC allows countries to legally possess a wide range of chemicals if they are identifiable.

Under the convention, countries are allowed stocks of toxic chemicals and their precursors for peaceful purposes including industry, agriculture, research and medicine.

For recognised or potential chemical weapons, and chemicals that may be involved in their manufacture, only limited quantities can be kept.

Signatories are allowed to hold a combined total of one tonne and one facility, usually a laboratory, where these substances can be made.

These stocks can be used to develop protective clothing, gas masks, antidotes and for developing methods to identify chemical weapons.
Auditing of these stocks by the OPCW is down to the milligram level.

For other substances more widely used in industry, but which may be used to make chemical weapons, stocks are closely monitored.

Complete records of the quantities manufactured, sold, used or disposed of must be kept by governments and the information passed to the OPCW every year."

Nerve agent: Who controls the world's most toxic chemicals? - BBC News

Former Russian spy critically ill in Britain after exposure to unidentified substance-1646781772416e52d8d4b29554adc920-being-hurt-hate-being-lied

Former Russian spy critically ill in Britain after exposure to unidentified substance-1646781772416e52d8d4b29554adc920-being-hurt-hate-being-lied

Who will trust British politicians ever again? Some here will continue to suck up the puke they vomit with every word they say.

**tomcat** · 22-03-2018, 05:58 AM

"Knowing your post contains deliberate distortions is worse than the submission of mere inaccuracies because some errors only make readers angry while being misled destroys their trust." -Tomcat

**harrybarracuda** · 22-03-2018, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by tomcat

"Knowing your post contains deliberate distortions is worse than the submission of mere inaccuracies because some errors only make readers angry while being misled destroys their trust." -Tomcat

Trust? Ohoh?

Oh dear.

**OhOh** · 22-03-2018, 12:58 PM

^ ^^

Amusing but factual?

**Neo** · 22-03-2018, 12:58 PM

harry stroking one out to Tomcat shagging his own arse

**harrybarracuda** · 22-03-2018, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by Neo

harry stroking one out to Tomcat shagging his own arse

Please keep your perverted homosexual fantasies to yourself.

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