Thread: Americans Too Fat For Cremation

Originally Posted by Maanaam

Originally Posted by ENT

the one I helped cremate just keeled over dead, probably its heart gave up, it was so overweight

Yeah right.

You did say cow. Indeed Hares keep cows for milk. You have not butchered many cows have you?

Not on my own, it takes teamwork(or a tractor on a farm) to hoist the beast up on the gambril after it's been shot and bled, then carry off the guts to bury them. Then more teamwork (and tractor) to skin it, then lower the separated sides onto a bench for butchering.

As a MAF meat inspector I've seen thousands of butchered cows,

Halal?

and as a farmer have slaughtered quite a few myself.

Oh really? Big family to feed? Which country gave you a licence to do that? Were you a farmer before, during or after school? Or was it while you were a teacher? Or was it just in your dreams?

Morbidly obese dairy cow....there's one for the record books.

Not at all,..some Vaishnavas do have 'em.

Originally Posted by ENT

(me)So, you're saying the fire starts at the top, then the brushwood at the bottom ignites after the fat drips down.
Read it again, dozey. No one except an idiot like yourself would dream of starting a fire on top of a heap of combustibles.

Oh yeah...

Originally Posted by ENT

more fat, creating more flame all running downward to soak into the brush wood underneath, which in turn ignites

As I suggested....dig yourself in deeper.
If the fire is started at the bottom, then why does the fat dripping down "in turn ignite the brushwood underneath"???

Originally Posted by ENT

The skin ain't "merely singed", it's scorched, the hair is not immediately burned off, the whole beast is covered in hair, and and both hair, particularly below the main conflagration, and twigs act as wicks to keep the fire burning.

The skin is scorched but the hair remains!!

I think there would be unanimity that you, ENT, are a complete and utter idiot, fool, liar, and general all-round fuckwit.


It's very obvious you have no reading comprehension, but what is particularly odd/worrying is that you don't even comprehend what you yourself have written.

Originally Posted by Maanaam

Yeah, well, maybe you can sit idly by when an idiot says, with a pseudo air of authority, that animal hairs in a fire don't burn away but act as a wick drawing fat from under the skin, but when I see such idiocy, I call it. If the fool insists and backs himself up with more nonsense, I call that too.

Say's the fool who never did cremate a dog or pig, as he claims. ^

As do most scientists, DeHaan credits alleged SHC to the "wick effect," by which an external ignition source -- say, clothes or hair ignited by a cigarette -- acts as a wick that splits the skin, penetrating the dermal layers to expose highly flammable subcutaneous body fat, which burns madly, shooting out flames that split more skin, exposing more fat, which burns madly.
'Spontaneous' Combustion: Can Bodies Burn From the Inside Out? | Alternet


In the human body, the body fat acts as the flammable substance, and the victim’s clothing or hair acts as the wick. As the fat melts from the heat, it soaks into the clothing and acts as a wax-like substance to keep the wick burning slowly.
Source Spontaneous human combustion – Wick Effect | MEDCHROME

A bit more to really upset Manfan, from the same John DeHaan, forensic scientist of UC Davis, as quoted in my earlier post;

Sustained combustion of an animal carcass and its implications for the consumption of human bodies in fires.

DeHaan JD1, Nurbakhsh S.
Author information
Abstract
When a human body is found with significant portions of its torso and limbs destroyed yet with comparatively minor damage to head, hands and feet, the mechanism of such destruction defies ready explanation, since exposure to external fires, particularly those involving flammable liquids, usually results in the destruction of hands, feet, limbs, and head prior to significant combustion of the large mass of the torso.

Previous tests by these authors have demonstrated the conditions necessary to promote combustion of a body:

the presence of adequate body fat, presence of a porous, rigid char to act as a wick, and an external flame source sustained for several minutes to char the body and cause the subcutaneous fat to begin rendering.

In the test reported here, a freshly-slaughtered pig carcass with a net weight of 215 lb. (95 kg) was wrapped in a cotton blanket and placed on a carpet-covered plywood panel.

The fire was initiated using 1 L of gasoline poured on the shoulder area of the blanket-wrapped carcass. The gasoline burned off within 4 min, having ignited a large area of the blanket and adjoining carpet.

Flames from those fuel packages resulted in the establishment of a steady-state fire sustained by the rendering of the body fat, with the necessary wick provided by the charred cotton blanket and carpet. The heat release rate of this fire was 60+/-10 kW, with flames less than 12 in. (0.35 m) high for its duration.

The fire sustained itself by the rendering process for more than 6 1/2 h from ignition, at which time it was extinguished. An average mass loss rate of 1.5 g/s (5.3 kg/h) was observed during the self-sustained fire.

Extensive destruction of the carcass (more than 60% by weight) included reduction of large bones to a fragile, ashen state. Other test data will demonstrate the similarity between subcutaneous fat from human and porcine sources. The implications for the reconstruction of accidental and homicidal fires involving such destruction will be discussed.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11569545

Some more interesting details below;



Sustained combustion of bodies: some observations.
DeHaan JD1.

Abstract
Previous tests have explored the fire effects and fuel characteristics of animal carcasses in intense fires of relatively short duration. Here, test fires were conducted involving intact human cadavers and torsos that included nonaccelerated, long-duration fires involving the bedding and clothing (in the manner of typical accidental deaths).

The objective was to observe the fire conditions (size, radiant heat flux, and duration), where a human body represented the major fuel package in a nonaccelerated fire. The pattern of damage to the body was documented and compared with that resulting from a furnished room fire.

Two intact, unembalmed human cadavers were exposed to fires of simulated accidental origin. The bedding was ignited by an open flame, and the fires were allowed to burn unaided to self-extinguishment. It was found that normal human bodies can support a modest-sized fire for some 6-7 h under these conditions.

The presence of a substrate material that can act as a wick for the combustion of the rendered body fat results in extensive destruction of the torso where the greatest amount of subcutaneous fat resides, with less damage to the head and limbs.

A third (partial) cadaver was exposed to a recreation of a typical accidental fire in a furnished room that progressed to full room involvement. This fire of some 15 min of total duration inflected only surface-layer damage to the torso of the victim.
© 2012 American Academy of Forensic Sciences.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22564024


And another report:

Combustion of animal fat and its implications for the consumption of human bodies in fires.
DeHaan JD1, Campbell SJ, Nurbakhsh S.
Author information
Abstract
This paper describes experiments in which the combustion of animal tissue (pork) was measured under a variety of conditions that may be encountered in fire scenes. Combustion depends on substantial preheating of the tissue by an external heat source and the availability of a porous wick (such as charred cellulosic material). Combustion of moderate-size samples can proceed at a moderate rate of 1-3 g/s (3.6-10.8 kg/hr) if provided with an adequate wick and results in only a small fire of 30-50 kW. In the final test, combustion of 26 kg of fat and skin created a fire of 120-130 kW. Such a fire is more likely to cause fire spread to other combustibles nearby. The presence of other, less efficient fuels (like skin and muscle) and the absence of large fuel masses (such as in the very lean pig carcasses used here) results in significantly smaller fires of 40-50 kW. Such fires are more typical of burning human remains when there are minimal contributions from other fuels.
PMID: 10750270 DOI: 10.1016/S1355-0306(99)72011-3
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10750270

Amazing eh, Manfan?

No need for a pile of firewood a metre and a half high as you imagined,...no need for any at all.

The only material needed was a charred cotton blanket and carpet to act as wicks, plus the animal's fat.

And you claimed to have cremated some dogs and a pig, Maanaam?

Like hell you did.