Dismantle a strategic NATO member with US nukes on its soil, and hand it over to traditional enemies. Great idea, let's do it.
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Dismantle a strategic NATO member with US nukes on its soil, and hand it over to traditional enemies. Great idea, let's do it.
Nice little comparison by N.Y. Times
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...cale.html?_r=0
The Scale of Turkey’s Purge
Is Nearly Unprecedented
By JOSH KELLER, IARYNA MYKHYALYSHYN and SAFAK TIMUR AUG. 2, 2016
Only rarely in modern history has a leader :rolleyes: detained and fired as many perceived adversaries as President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey has since a failed coup attempt last month. Here is how Mr. Erdogan’s vast purge would look if Americans were targeted at a similar scale.
Almost 9,000 police officers fired
Like firing every police officer
in Philadelphia, Dallas,
Detroit, Boston and Baltimore.
The Interior Ministry fired the police officers, some of whom government officials said had supported the coup attempt. Turkish officials have acknowledged that the number of people targeted in the purge is probably much greater than the number of conspirators.
21,000 private school teachers suspended
Like revoking the licenses of every
third teacher in private elementary and
high schools across the United States.
In addition to the teachers suspended, the government intends to close more than 1,000 private schools it linked to Fethullah Gulen, a cleric who the government said was the mastermind of the coup attempt. (Mr. Gulen has denied this, and his level of involvement remains unclear.) Followers of Mr. Gulen have sought to gain power within Turkey by infiltrating state institutions, often successfully.
Education officials said they planned to convert the schools into public schools and hire 40,000 new teachers.
10,012 soldiers detained
Like taking nearly every fourth
officer in the U.S. Army into custody.
The military, which has long been a unifying force for the country, is now deeply divided, diminished and discredited. A rebel faction of the military initiated the coup attempt.
Since then, nearly half of the top generals and admirals have been jailed or dismissed and more than 5,000 army officials have been sent to pretrial detention.
2,745 members of the judiciary suspended
Like suspending every state judge in
California, Texas, New York and Georgia.
The future has been uncertain for the judges and judicial staff members suspected of being followers of Mr. Gulen — including two members of Turkey’s highest court — since a board of judges and prosecutors suspended them a day after the coup attempt.
Government officials said they intended to hire 5,000 new judges and prosecutors by the end of August. Mr. Erdogan also announced a three-month state of emergency that enables his ministers to pass decrees that have the force of law with the approval of Parliament.
21,700 Ministry of Education officials fired
Like firing nearly every third employee
of the U.S. Department of Education.
The officials who were fired from the Education Ministry had responsibilities that included appointing teachers and preparing curriculum. The evidence against them is unclear.
Ministry officials said the school year would begin in September as planned, but a variety of exams, including distance learning and public officer exams, have already been delayed.
1,500 university deans forced to resign
Like forcing all American
university deans to resign.
Every university dean in Turkey was forced to resign without an explanation of who would replace them or whether they would be allowed to reapply for their jobs.
“Who is going to run the universities? They will open in six or seven weeks,” Steven A. Cook, a Turkey expert at the Council on Foreign Relations, said in the week after the coup attempt.
Some academics who signed a petition this year protesting the government’s war against Kurdish militants were also suspended from their jobs.
More than 100 media outlets shut down
Equivalent to President Obama’s issuing
arrest warrants for conservative journalists,
closing television and radio stations and
censoring dozens of news-related websites.
More than 100 broadcast, newspaper, magazine and other media companies have been shut down, and at least 28 journalists and media workers were detained, according to the Committee to Protect Journalists. Many of them were pro-Gulen.
“The scale of this rout of the media is staggering,” Nina Ognianova, the committee’s Europe and Central Asia Program coordinator, said in a statement.
Turkey has long been criticized for its press restrictions. In the past, critical journalists have faced legal investigations and, in some cases, long prison sentences.
More than 1,500 Ministry of Finance officials suspended
Like suspending nearly everybody
at the U.S. Treasury who regulates
banks and designs and prints money.
The government suspended more than 1,500 finance officials within the first two days after the attempted coup. Prime Minister Binali Yildirim said the episode would not have a major effect on the country’s economy.
“We have such a strong economy that we overcome this coup with small scratches,” Mr. Yildirim said.
he is a dictatorial madman, a perfect candidate for eu membership.
We had 40,000 Turks pro demonstrators for Erdogan this weekend in Germany. You would think they knew better after living and going to school here in Germany.
We can only hope that Erdogan escalates the whole thing. This wil be a good way of "separating the wheat from the chaff". :rolleyes:
That's a fair view from westerners, though living and enjoying the benefits of Europe are secondary to faith for many Muslims.Quote:
Originally Posted by HermantheGerman
Polls can mean different things according to position. For example, a study targeting Turks and Moroccans in Austria, Belgium, France, Germany, Holland and Sweden asked:
Do you think Sharia is more important to you than the laws of the country you live? (66% yes)
Do you mean that there is only one legitimate interpretation of the Koran that should apply to all Muslims? (75% yes)
Are you saying that Muslims should return to their “Islamic roots”? (60% yes)
44% answered yes to all three questions.
This suggests many Muslims (immigrants and indigenous) living in the west are first Muslim and then nationals, and favour Sharia as their host country's official source of law.
https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.c...european-laws/
Under-informed non-Muslims may disagree and hopefully without too much offence though I'm used to that after a couple weeks here, but many Muslims, likely at least those answering yes to all of the three questions polled above, and by my understanding Sharia itself, view maxing out on welfare and certain types of crime as bleeding the infidels' resources, and therefore a legitimate form of jihad.
You and whose boy scout brigade? :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by jabir
Erdogan's barmy if he thinks he can hold on to power while half the population of Turkey hate the hell out of him.
The worm will turn, and he'll inevitably get bitten.
Another thread this time towards the U.S. How far will Turkey take this ?
Turkey: US Failure to Hand Over Gulen Would ‘Sacrifice Relations’
VOA News
August 09, 2016 5:00 AM
Turkey on Tuesday warned the United States that if it fails to extradite Fethullah Gulen, the Pennsylvania-based cleric Turkey accuses of planning a failed coup attempt, it would cause great harm to relations between the countries.
"If the US does not deliver [Gulen], they will sacrifice relations with Turkey for the sake of a terrorist," Justice Minister Bekir Bozdag said during a televised interview.
The Turkish government has repeatedly tried to pressure the U.S. into handing over Gulen since shortly after the failed July 15 coup attempt.
Last week, lawyers representing Gulen said the Turkish government had provided no evidence to prove his involvement in the coup, and that Gulen “should not and will not be extradited.”
One of the attorneys, Reid Weingarten, added that three Turkish ministers who visited the U.S. last week to try and seek Gulen’s extradition only served to intensify the “complexity and absurdity” of the conspiracy allegations lodged against Gulen.
"Extradition is fundamentally a legal process. We are lawyers and we deal with evidence and we deal with due process and — guess what? — in extradition proceedings, evidence matters and due process matters," he said.
Washington has said that in order for the extradition process to begin, Turkey would need to provide solid evidence of Gulen’s involvement in the coup attempt.
Bozdag said during the interview Monday that more than 26,000 people had been detained in connection with the coup attempt – many of whom were members of the military, journalists and academics. Of those, he said more than 16,000 people had been formally arrested.
Weingarten said the mass detainment in Turkey shows that Gulen wouldn’t get a fair trial if he were extradited.
Nearly 70,000 people in the military, judiciary, civil service and education system have been detained, suspended or placed under investigation following the July 15 coup attempt, prompting fears that Erdogan is using the event to crack down on dissent.
More than 270 people died and thousands were wounded as mutinous soldiers commandeered fighter jets, helicopters and tanks in the failed attempt to topple the government.
Gulen has denied any involvement or knowledge of the failed coup attempt and has condemned it.
http://www.voanews.com/content/turke...s/3456814.html
Erdogan is off to Moscow to "reset" ties with Russia, He even called Putin his friend. LOL.
As long as Erdogan survives he can take it as far as he wishes, the money won't stop for longer than to make some irrelevant point before it resumes through regular channels or the back door, and not like NATO will start bombing Ankara or our lot will suddenly grow a spine and install sanctions. He holds many trumps, including but not limited to his faith and will, strategic location, NATO 'ally', and a hand on the people tap; if he uses these properly, and he's done well so far, the EU will hand him another trump, visa-free travel if not membership; and consider this, even while Turkey illegally occupies a current member.
EU is on the defensive, and the more he squeezes the more support he will get from not just Turkey but also others that see weakness as weak, while European leaders prefer to see it as strong because that's better than reality.
Best EU can dream about is cardiac arrest or assisted regime change but legally like in oops sorry about that. Even so that would lead to just another cockup because of that critical vacuum factor which western leaders can't seem to get their heads around. But this is actually good news, because we can be confident that not even on a real dumb day would the EU risk civil war in Turkey.
Meanwhile, don't forget the millions of refugees where they don't belong that need continuous food and shelter etc, millions more heading for Europe, with millions more being displaced by the IS, AQ, Taliban and others including our friendly rebels.
Old news.Quote:
Originally Posted by jabir
Most westerners are aware of that.
So how many million "refugees" do you think will flood into Europe this year?Quote:
Originally Posted by jabir
Only you can answer why you imagine anyone knows, but we can speculate. Not that I expect you to agree but no less than a million refugees, asylum seekers, economic migrants, thugs, organised and freelance criminals and jihadis. In other words just like last year and the next few years at least, and long before those before them are processed and accommodated, with a growing backlog to the point where people will be stamped through just to meet quotas. But many of these refugees will also contribute to every part of the host societies, though these will be largely ignored by those fixated on the bad guys.Quote:
Originally Posted by ENTSo how many million "refugees" do you think will flood into Europe this year?Quote:
Originally Posted by jabir
That's how it will likely continue, with many going off the radar, an increasing number and frequency of mental issues, genuine jihad episodes and genuine jihad episodes dressed as mental issues, but we'll learn live with that as well.
So expect Europe to be fairly busy over the next millions per year. If you pause to consider the scale of the task, it's actually far worse because it was caught flat footed and is not geared to what is actually happening, yet most of the people don't know because its leaders don't want them to know. Why? I don't know, ask them, but tipping points are everywhere so an expected million can quickly become two, three or five converging on a paralysed continent that's being assured everything's just fine. And don't rule out civil war, unless you believe Europe is too civilised.
World | Tue Aug 9, 2016 8:51pm EDT Related: WORLD
Exclusive: Turkish military officer seeking asylum in United States - U.S. officials
A Turkish military officer on a U.S.-based assignment for NATO is seeking asylum in the United States after being recalled by the Turkish government in the wake of last month's failed military coup, U.S. officials told Reuters.
The asylum bid is the first known case involving a Turkish military officer in the United States as Turkey purges military ranks after mutinous soldiers commandeered fighter jets, helicopters and tanks in an unsuccessful attempt to oust President Tayyip Erdogan.
The case has the potential to further strain ties between the United States and Turkey, which is already demanding Washington hand over a U.S.-based Turkish cleric it alleges was responsible for the failed coup.
The two U.S. officials, who spoke to Reuters on condition of anonymity, said the Turkish officer was working at the headquarters of NATO's Allied Command Transformation, located in Norfolk, Virginia. They did not name him or offer his rank.
However, an official at Turkey's embassy in Washington said Turkish Navy Rear Admiral Mustafa Ugurlu had failed to report to authorities after Turkey issued a detention order for him last month.
"On July 22, on that day he left his badges and his ID at the base and after that no one has heard anything from him," the official said, also speaking on condition of anonymity.
The Turkish official said he was unaware of a subsequent asylum request. An April news article on the NATO website identified Ugurlu as the Norfolk-based command's assistant chief of staff for command and control, deployability and sustainability.
The Turkish official said two other lower-level officers had also been called back from the United States to Turkey.
"But there's no detention order for them," the official said. "One of them has gone back, and the other will go back shortly."
MILITARY PURGES
The purges within Turkey's military, which has NATO's second largest armed forces and aspires to membership in the European Union, has resulted in thousands of soldiers being discharged, including around 40 percent of generals.
There are concerns within the Turkish opposition that the restructuring lacks parliamentary oversight and is going too far.
Pentagon spokesman Captain Jeff Davis declined comment, referring questions about Turkish military personnel to Turkey.
The Norfolk mission where the Turkish officer was assigned is the only NATO command in North America, according to its website. It directs Allied Command Transformation's subordinate commands, including the Joint Warfare Center in Norway and the Joint Force Training Center in Poland.
A spokeswoman at the Norfolk-based mission said 26 Turkish military personnel were assigned there, and she praised Turkey's contribution, including hosting U.S. and allies at its Incirlik Air Base, an important staging area for the U.S.-led fight against Islamic State militants in Syria.
"We want to state that Turkey is a valued NATO ally that continues to make important contributions to the fight against ISIL," U.S. Navy Lieutenant Commander Karen Eifert said, declining comment on questions about an asylum request. ISIL is an acronym for Islamic State.
A NATO official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Turkey's internal reorganization of its military has not had a practical impact on NATO-led commands.
"Turkey has notified NATO about the changeover of a number of Turkish military personnel. There has been no impact on the implementation of NATO-led operations and missions or on the work of NATO commands," the official said, declining comment on any asylum request.
"I would refer you to the Turkish authorities for any further details on their staffing."
U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services said it could not discuss individual cases, including whether an individual has requested a specific immigration benefit like asylum.
The State Department declined comment.
ANTI-U.S. SENTIMENT RISING
The case comes as Turkey presses Washington to hand over U.S.-based cleric Fethullah Gulen.
Gulen, an ally of Erdogan in the early years after his Islamist-rooted AK Party took power in 2002, has denied any involvement in the coup, which came at a critical time for a NATO state facing Islamist militant attacks from across the border in Syria and an insurgency by Kurdish rebels.
Justice Minister Bekir Bozdag said anti-American feeling among Turks was on the rise and "turning into hatred" and could only be calmed by the United States extraditing Gulen.
Still, the U.S. and Turkish militaries have long had extensive ties, extending beyond the NATO alliance.
One U.S. defense official, speaking on condition of anonymity, estimated there were around 160 Turkish military personnel on assignment in the United States, including those at NATO in Norfolk and others at exchanges at prestigious U.S. military institutions.
Navy Lieutenant Commander Patrick Evans said 123 Turkish military personnel were participating in the U.S. International Military Education and Training Program in the continental United States as of Aug. 9.
Asked how many of those participants had been recalled to Turkey, Evans said: "We are aware of one student currently at the Army War College who received a recall notice to return to Turkey."
The status of the student at the War College, located in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, was not immediately clear. Evans did not comment on any individual cases.
(Reporting by Phil Stewart; Aadditional reporting by Julia Hart, Julia Edwards, Jonathan Landay and Arshad Mohammed; Editing by Leslie Adler)
Exclusive: Turkish military officer seeking asylum in United States - U.S. officials | Reuters
Blackmailing Turkish b*(TARDS . the usual Arab ploy, if logic fails, threaten and blackmail.
So the Turks are copying the Arabs?Quote:
Originally Posted by ENT
Interesting.
:smileylaughing:
We're all entitled to our opinions, but UNHCR says 250,000 migrants arrived in Europe, 262,935 arrivals by sea including refugees so far this year, compared to 1.015,078 million last year.Quote:
Originally Posted by jabirOnly you can answer why you imagine anyone knows, but we can speculate. Not that I expect you to agree but no less than a million...Quote:
Originally Posted by ENTSo how many million "refugees" do you think will flood into Europe this year?Quote:
Originally Posted by jabir
In other words just like last year and the next few years at least,
That's how it will likely continue,
https://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gif
The grey bars at the bottom are this years arrivals, blue are 2015 arrivals.
For the untrimmed copy and more go to this website;
Refugees/Migrants Emergency Response - Mediterranean - Regional Overview
Since when haven't they?Quote:
Originally Posted by NevernaSo the Turks are copying the Arabs?Quote:
Originally Posted by ENT
Interesting.
I don't hear you complain that Europe looted half the world, or even today when western countries position for their own best interests.Quote:
Originally Posted by ENT
Why shouldn't Erdogan do as he believes is best for his country, even if it includes putting the boot in when Europe knows he is not only holding the high trumps but ready to play them?
I suppose we should believe the UNHCR, that this year there were 250,000 arrivals in Europe of which only 262,935 arrived by sea, and last year 1,015,078 arrived of which Germany admits to variously taking only 1.1 - 1.2 million, which makes the rest of Europe refugee net negative and implies that the several EU countries that erected fences did so to stop their refugees leaving.Quote:
Originally Posted by ENTWe're all entitled to our opinions, but UNHCR says 250,000 migrants arrived in Europe, 262,935 arrivals by sea including refugees so far this year, compared to 1.015,078 million last year.Quote:
Originally Posted by jabirOnly you can answer why you imagine anyone knows, but we can speculate. Not that I expect you to agree but no less than a million...Quote:
Originally Posted by ENTSo how many million "refugees" do you think will flood into Europe this year?Quote:
Originally Posted by jabir
In other words just like last year and the next few years at least,
That's how it will likely continue,
https://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gif
The grey bars at the bottom are this years arrivals, blue are 2015 arrivals.
For the untrimmed copy and more go to this website;
Refugees/Migrants Emergency Response - Mediterranean - Regional Overview
Note that your numbers, however fresh they are supposed to be, make no allowance for the thousands arriving and being rescued daily. While just a few thousand doesn't sound like much in global terms, your own figure of 250k for all of this year becomes redundant within a week.
And oops, just noticed 49% of seafarers are Syrian. That's odd; EU officials must have lied that they cannot accurately validate by source country since most refugees arrived without documents, while Lampedusa, which wouldn't be used by Syrians except for giveaway jihadi plants, must have secretly stopped receiving newcomers.
"Europe" as you call it didn't come into empirical existence until the 13th century AD.
Europe colonized large parts of the world since then. 600 years out of five thousands or so since early civilization reared its awkward head out of the dust.
Do you think "Europeans" caused all the havoc?
Fair enough, I shall take that to mean Europe did not conquer and loot half the world as soon as it was able to do so.
No problem, it's getting easier by the post to let your bizarre arguments pass, so let's move on to your take on the refugee numbers and demographics you presented as factual.
Why point the finger at Europe ? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by jabir
Why not blame those restless idiots that left the African Savannah years ago, and took over the planet ? :rolleyes:
What bizarre arguments?Quote:
Originally Posted by jabir
In fact it was the Arabs who first went off raping, pillaging and looting, colonizing and conquering half the then known world in the 8th century AD and onwards, long before European armies decided to have a go at colonizing and empire building 700 years later.
Now what's your problem with UNHCR stats on "refugees"?
So, that's not relevant then, even though the final disintegration is only a few decades ago and the world is still facing the aftermath?Quote:
Originally Posted by ENT