Thread: Egypt Air flight from Paris to Cairo

EgyptAir black boxes badly damaged, likely to prolong probe

CAIRO (AP) — The voice and data recorders from the EgyptAir plane that crashed into the Mediterranean nearly a month ago are "extensively damaged" and will need repairs before they can be analyzed, an Egyptian official said Friday, dampening hopes for quick answers as to what caused the disaster.

The official didn't elaborate on how long the repairs would take but said if this cannot be done in Egypt, the so-called "black boxes" would be sent abroad. The official who spoke on condition of anonymity because he wasn't authorized to speak to the media.

With the wreckage of the Airbus A320 some 3,000 meters under water, the cockpit voice and flight data recorders are vital for piecing together the last moments of the flight, which plunged into the sea between the Greek island of Crete and the Egyptian port city of Alexandria on May 19, killing all 66 on board.

Earlier in the day, Egypt's investigation commission said the flight data recorder had been pulled out of the sea, a day after the cockpit voice recorder was also recovered. Both were brought to Cairo for analysis.

The memory units inside the recorders can provide key data, including the last conversations inside the cockpit, information about auto-pilot mode or even smoke alarms. They might also give answers to why the pilot made no distress call before the crash.

Experts say the data, combined with previously obtained satellite and radar images, debris analysis, the plane history and the pilots' records, can shed light on the most possible scenarios. No militant group has claimed bringing down the aircraft.

"We will be having a wealth of information that helps the investigators eliminate some possibilities while giving priority to others," said Hani Galal, an Egyptian aviation expert. He is not involved in this crash investigation but has taken part in other similar probes.

Both France and the United States are sending investigators to Cairo to help with the probe.

EgyptAir Flight 804 en route to Cairo from Paris disappeared May 19 from radar at about 2:45 a.m local time, just as it had entered Egyptian airspace. Radar data showed the aircraft had made violent moves after cruising normally in clear skies, plummeting from 38,000 feet (11,582 meters) to 15,000 feet (4,572 meters). It disappeared when it was at an altitude of about 10,000 feet (3,048 meters).

EgyptAir black boxes badly damaged, likely to prolong probe

You can only hope the Gyppos don't touch the bloody things until the NTSB are on site.

My thoughts too.

Maybe they already have, the recorders are, unusually, already in pieces or extensively damaged.

EgyptAir crash: Tests begin on MS804 flight recorders





The flight recorder from EgyptAir flight MS804 on display, 17 JuneImage copyrightREUTERS
Image caption


Investigators are subjecting the flight recorders from the EgyptAir jet which crashed last month to electrical tests before analysis can begin.
Egyptian air accident investigation sources told Reuters news agency it would take "lots of time and effort" to fix the two damaged recorders.






The flight data and cockpit voice recorders were retrieved this week.

Investigators have said it is too early to rule out any causes for the crash, including terrorism.

The recorders are being tested in the Egyptian civil aviation ministry's laboratories in the capital Cairo, AFP news agency reports.
Black box flight recorders

Egypt's Aircraft Accident Investigation Committee will analyse them along with representatives from France and the US.
The work may take several weeks. Depending on the scale of the damage, the "black boxes" may be sent abroad for repairs.
Earlier, the committee said the data recorder had been retrieved "in several pieces" by a specialist ship, the John Lethbridge, which found the wreckage on Wednesday in several locations about 290km (180 miles) north of the Egyptian coast, at a depth of about 3,000m (9,800ft).

Egypt's civil aviation minister has said a terrorist attack is more likely than a technical failure.
Automated electronic messages sent by the plane revealed that smoke detectors had gone off in a toilet and in the avionics area below the cockpit, minutes before the plane's signal was lost.

On Monday, the investigation committee confirmed that radar data had shown the plane turned 90 degrees left and then 360 degrees to the right, dropping from 11,300m (37,000ft) to 4,600m (15,000ft) and then 3,000m (10,000ft) before it disappeared.
What do we know so far?

EgyptAir Flight MS804 vanished over the eastern Mediterranean early on Thursday 19 May with 66 passengers and crew on board
Some surface debris was found 290km (180 miles) north of the Egyptian city of Alexandria
Wreckage was subsequently found in several locations at a depth of about 3,000m (6,800ft)

Signals from the plane indicated that smoke was detected in the toilet and in the avionics area below the cockpit
Aircraft made a 90-degree left turn followed by a 360-degree turn to the right before vanishing off radar
EgyptAir crash: Tests begin on MS804 flight recorders - BBC News

The latest News Egypt investigators to finish repairing crashed jet's black box memory units in hours | Reuters

Damaged flight recorders from the EgyptAir aircraft that crashed last month will be sent to France for repairs, Egyptian investigators say.
They say memory chips from Flight MS804 which contain vital information will be delivered to French experts next week.
The Airbus A320 was en route from Paris to Cairo when it vanished from radar in the eastern Mediterranean on 19 May.
All 66 people on board the plane were killed. Some debris from the plane has since been recovered from the sea.
In a statement, the Egyptian investigative committee said the two recorders would be sent to France's BEA accident experts to remove salt deposits from the memory chips.
They will then be returned to Egypt for analysis.
It is hoped the recorders - which contain the pilots' conversations and technical parameters of the flight - could help determine the cause of the crash.

EgyptAir Flight MS804 recorders to go to Paris for repairs - BBC News

Good - that means they can grab a copy of what's on them before they go back to Cairo.

Just in case there are a few "Allah O Akbar!"'s on there and all.

Crashed EgyptAir flight data recorder successfully repaired: investigation committee


A flight recorder retrieved from the crashed EgyptAir flight MS804 is seen in this undated picture issued June 17, 2016. EGYPTIAN AVIATION MINISTRY via Reuters

Egypt investigators said on Monday that the flight data recorder of crashed EgyptAir flight MS804 had been successfully repaired, paving the way for investigators to analyze data that may explain why the jet plunged into the Mediterranean last month.

The investigators added in a statement that the doomed plane's cockpit voice recorder would begin to be worked on "within hours" also.

The recorders arrived in Paris from Cairo on Monday to remove salt deposits. They will be sent back to a laboratory in Cairo to analyze the data once the repairs are completed, the statement added.

(Reporting by Eric Knecht)

Crashed EgyptAir flight data recorder successfully repaired: investigation committee | Reuters

A black box recording from crashed EgyptAir flight MS804 confirms smoke on board, Egyptian investigators say.
The flight from Paris to Cairo plunged into the Mediterranean Sea on 19 May, killing all 66 people on board.

Automated electronic messages sent by the plane had shown that smoke detectors went off in a toilet and in the avionics area below the cockpit, minutes before the plane disappeared.

The recorded data are consistent with those messages, investigators said.
The voice and flight data recorders, known as black boxes, were recovered from a depth of about 3,000m (9,800ft) in the Mediterranean.
The second black box, the cockpit recorder, is still being repaired in Paris.

The Egyptian investigation committee also said that part of the front section of the aircraft's wreckage "showed sign of high temperature damage" and soot.
No distress call was made from the plane prior to the crash. The cause remains unknown.

EgyptAir crash: Flight MS804 black box 'confirms smoke' - BBC News

Originally Posted by ENT

A black box recording from crashed EgyptAir flight MS804 confirms smoke on board, Egyptian investigators say.
The flight from Paris to Cairo plunged into the Mediterranean Sea on 19 May, killing all 66 people on board.

Automated electronic messages sent by the plane had shown that smoke detectors went off in a toilet and in the avionics area below the cockpit, minutes before the plane disappeared.

The recorded data are consistent with those messages, investigators said.
The voice and flight data recorders, known as black boxes, were recovered from a depth of about 3,000m (9,800ft) in the Mediterranean.
The second black box, the cockpit recorder, is still being repaired in Paris.

The Egyptian investigation committee also said that part of the front section of the aircraft's wreckage "showed sign of high temperature damage" and soot.
No distress call was made from the plane prior to the crash. The cause remains unknown.

EgyptAir crash: Flight MS804 black box 'confirms smoke' - BBC News

Not really telling us anything new, although it does lean towards a fire that took hold too quickly for the flight crew to do anything about it, and burned out the comms in the process.

The only problem I can see is that although the recorders may be intact, the sensors that feed them may have stopped functioning early on.

But at least they know where the wreckage is, so if they need to they should in theory be able to take a close look at it to eliminate the bomb theory, and possibly identify the source of the fire.

It would be an expensive oepration but may prove necessary.

Well, they found and sent cameras down to the Titanic....at 12,500 ft.

Originally Posted by Latindancer

Well, they found and sent cameras down to the Titanic....at 12,500 ft.

I didn't say that it was impossible, I just said that it was expensive, especially if they decide they need to bring anything up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...nes_Flight_811

Paris prosecutor opens manslaughter inquiry into EgyptAir crash

Manslaughter is only an initial description, based on the data revealed so far, until the analysis of the two black boxes is

The Paris prosecution opened a manslaughter inquiry on Monday into the crash of EgyptAir flight MS804, saying that there is no evidence of terrorism up until now.

French authorities are not in favour of the theory that the aeroplane was brought down intentionally, according to a prosecution spokesperson. She added that the status of the inquiry would change if the investigations revealed any new facts.

A statement released by the office of Egypt’s public prosecutor Nabil Sadek said that the Egyptian prosecution is cooperating with its French counterpart.

The statement added that labelling the incident as ‘manslaughter’ is only an initial description, based on the data revealed so far. The analysis of the two black boxes has not been completed yet.

The Egyptian investigation committee announced that the aeroplane’s flight data recorder (FDR) memory was successfully fixed at the French air investigation labs on Monday. Experts made sure the data was recovered from the device.

The statement added that the experts will work on fixing the cockpit voice recorder (CVR) on Tuesday before getting back to Cairo. The data will then be analysed in the Egyptian labs.

On 19 May, EgyptAir flight MS804, travelling from Paris to Cairo, crashed into the Mediterranean Sea, claiming the lives of all 66 people on board.

The investigation committee’s inspection of the CVR and the FDR began on Sunday, with the assistance of representatives from France and the United States.

Since the aircraft was manufactured in France, French national investigation agency Le Bureau d’Enquêtes et d’Analyses (BEA) is involved in analysing the data. The manufacturer Airbus will also be involved.

The BEA has a lot of experience in the recovery of flight data and has worked with Egypt in the past, both on the Metrojet incident and the Flash Airlines B737 accident.

The analysis cautiously draws upon the expertise of various parties to ensure the investigation is impartial and that the manufacturer, operator, and other stakeholders are kept at a safe distance Paris prosecutor opens manslaughter inquiry into EgyptAir crash - Daily News Egypt

That's simply an automatic procedure in France when there are French nationals involved.

Doesn't mean anything.

EgyptAir crash: Flight MS804 bodies are recovered

A search vessel looking for the remains of victims of the EgyptAir plane that crashed into the Mediterranean in May has recovered all of the mapped bodies from the sea floor, investigators say.

The Mauritian-based ship John Lethbridge is now sailing to Alexandria in Egypt.
It will later return to the crash site to look for more bodies.

The flight from Paris to Cairo crashed on 19 May, killing all 66 on board. The cause of the crash remains unknown.

A statement by the Egyptian Aircraft Accident Investigation Committee said that the search vessel John Lethbridge "retrieved all the human remains that were mapped at the crash location".

The vessel will return to the crash location after delivering the remains in Alexandria "to conduct a new thorough scan of the seabed and to search for any [more] human remains", the committee said.

It said Egyptian and French forensic doctors on board the vessel oversaw the body recovery process.
The remains are due to be examined by prosecutors and forensic specialists in Alexandria before going to Cairo for DNA analysis.

The committee said on Saturday that the memory chips from the airliner's black box voice recorders are not damaged and investigators should be able to make use of them.
The black box from EgyptAir flight MS804 confirmed smoke was on board, Egyptian investigators said last week.
Automated electronic messages sent by the plane revealed that smoke detectors went off in a toilet and in the avionics area below the cockpit, minutes before the plane disappeared.

The recorded data are consistent with those messages, investigators said.
The voice and flight data recorders were recovered from a depth of about 3,000m (9,800ft) in the Mediterranean.
The second black box, the cockpit recorder, is still being repaired in Paris.

No explanation for the disaster has so far been dismissed, but experts are reported by the Reuters news agency to be tending towards the theory that the cause of the crash was a technical failure rather than sabotage.
EgyptAir crash: Flight MS804 bodies are recovered - BBC News

EgyptAir crash: Recorder shows pilots 'battled fire'

Pilots of the EgyptAir jet that crashed in the Mediterranean Sea in May battled to extinguish a fire, the cockpit voice recorder reportedly shows.
The data, revealed by sources close to the investigation but not yet made public, backs up evidence from the flight recorder of smoke in the cabin.

Recovered wreckage also showed signs of high temperature damage and soot on the jet's front section.

All 66 on board died when flight MS804 from Paris to Cairo crashed on 19 May.

Both of the so-called "black box" recorders reinforce the automated electronic messages sent out by the plane that had shown smoke detectors going off in a toilet and in the avionics area below the cockpit, minutes before the plane disappeared.

No distress call was made from the plane prior to the crash.

Egyptian investigators have not ruled out any reasons for the crash, including terrorism, particularly as such catastrophic fires on passenger planes are so rare.

The data recorders had been taken to Paris after being found, and the cockpit voice recorder was in need of considerable repair.
Investigators are still analysing the voice exchanges and no official statement has yet been made on the contents.

EgyptAir crash: Recorder shows pilots 'battled fire' - BBC News

This story has gone too quiet for my liking. Even pprune closed the thread and only adds authorised details...none of the usual ent-style offerings allowed whilst the investigation continues...

It could be serious stuff...like a real electrical fault causing a catastrophic fire so rapidly, or without suitable fire detection, making recovery impossible.

That would set the cat among the pigeons regarding airbus....

What, no questions or suggested alternatives scenarios allowed?

Where's Harry?

".... we shouldn't be quick to reject ideas, no matter how strange. "Dismissing all conspiracy theories (and theorists) as crazy is just as intellectually lazy as credulously accepting every wild allegation," he says."

That from an article re. MH370 investigation.

MH370: Why hasn't the missing Malaysia Airlines flight been found? | The Week UK

Originally Posted by ENT

Where's Harry?

smoking in the toilet

Originally Posted by ENT

we shouldn't be quick to reject ideas, no matter how strange

Yep. The data recorders are but a start in determining what failed. Next comes the long process of retrieving as much crash debris as possible and using it to further determine cause.

Long time before the investigation will be closed.

EgyptAir crash: On-board recording discusses fire

An audio recording made on board an EgyptAir flight that crashed in the Mediterranean Sea in May discusses a fire, investigators say.

An Egyptian-led team said on Saturday that the information was found on a cockpit flight recording.
But the investigative committee said it was too early to say where or why the fire broke out.

The new information appears to back up evidence from the flight recorder of smoke in the cabin.
Recovered wreckage also showed signs of high temperature damage and soot on the jet's front section.

Automated electronic messages sent out by the plane had shown smoke detectors going off in a toilet and in the avionics area below the cockpit, minutes before the plane disappeared.
No distress call was made from the plane prior to the crash.

Egyptian investigators have not ruled out any reasons for the crash, including terrorism, particularly as such catastrophic fires on passenger planes are so rare.

The data recorders were taken to Paris after being found, and the cockpit voice recorder was in need of considerable repair.
The investigative committee also said on Saturday that a research ship, the John Lethbridge, had finished its search for human remains, which have been transferred to Cairo for identification.
EgyptAir crash: On-board recording discusses fire - BBC News

The crash site of EgyptAir Flight 804 deep in the eastern Mediterranean has given up all its secrets. Investigators into the crash now have a complete and detailed map of the field of debris. The Daily Beast can reveal that the specialized deepsea search vessel John Lethbridge has completed its mission and left the area after completing the mapping.

Investigators Find Vital New Clues to EgyptAir 804 Crash - The Daily Beast

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

The crash site of EgyptAir Flight 804 deep in the eastern Mediterranean has given up all its secrets. Investigators into the crash now have a complete and detailed map of the field of debris. The Daily Beast can reveal that the specialized deepsea search vessel John Lethbridge has completed its mission and left the area after completing the mapping.

Investigators Find Vital New Clues to EgyptAir 804 Crash - The Daily Beast

Whats your take on it H?

Well the evidence points to a fire bringing the aircraft down, and it being in the avionics bay would explain why they were unable to make a distress call.

Assuming they have got the recorders intact, and with the evidence they've got of the fire damage, I'd say they already know where the fire started and how it spread.

The only question is what started it.

If it wasn't a terrorist act, and I think it wasn't, it could have major implications either on the design of the aircraft or what is allowed on the plane.

Bear in mind historically we've seen aircraft brought down by both faulty wiring and cargo starting fires.

We'll have to wait and see what they come out with.