OK, you have me curious now Neverna. I am tired of this doublespeek.
OK, you have me curious now Neverna. I am tired of this doublespeek.
With the aid of a firearms unit. Serious question, did you even consider looking ANY of this up?Quote:
Originally Posted by rickschoppers
So how do unarmed UK police defend against an armed attacker(s). With a taser?:rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by DrB0bNo. Unlike their American counterparts they don't yet automatically shoot all black people in the vicinity.Quote:
Originally Posted by rickschoppers
Again. You're sitting in front of an Internet-connected device. Why are you making guesses when the information is at your fingertips?Quote:
Originally Posted by jamescollister
Because, I could only find the number for 2009, 2700 then.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrB0b
That would be the total number for SCO19. Most of those would be in specialist units, diplomatic protection for example, and not generally available for armed response. Of the AFOs on the street, the TSG for example, none of them are routinely armed. Some flying squad detectives routinely carry sidearms but not many.Quote:
Originally Posted by jamescollister
Those numbers are not for SO6, Diplomatic protection or BTP, Nuclear fuels police, just MET armed response trained officers.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrB0b
Why don't you use the net and look it up.
Forgot city of London Police, they can and do go armed.
We are talking about the Met here, did you forget? I did look it up and I got the details in my post directly from the SCO19 web site. Why do you think they are lying?Quote:
Originally Posted by jamescollister
The City of London Police, with whom I work on a regular basis, are not routinely armed. Where are you getting this nonsense from?
^City of London cops are there to patrol the financial district (square mile) and if none are armed I would be quite surprised. I would take a guess that they do carry arms but in their vehicles and the situation would require clearance first.
Unless of course they came across a robbery in progress
If you joked that you had a gun to say, a shop assistant and they took it serious and called cops, armed reponse would arrive. Even with a wooden cut out toy or black water pistol/pellet gun, even with an axe or crossbow. The threat is the same as if its a real gun. They have to prepare for the worst.
Last year a siege ended with a knifeman being shot dead as he moved the knife to cut the womans throat. But he'd has several warnings and regular cops didn't wanna risk a taser as that doesn't always work, plus it's not as fast as a bullet.
I've heard many ridicule UK cops and their 'bobby' helmets and the no firearms policy, but it's clearly kept random gun crime down
Neverna, I have read the links you supplied and thank you for the added insight. It appears that the statement police in the UK are unarmed is a bit misleading. If that is meant to be the purpose, then they have achieved the myth. There are firearms within the UK law enforcement ranks and the major question that remains, is the one all countries struggle with. What is law enforcement's response time to an armed attack? Someone here stated 10 minutes in downtown London, but I find that a bit optimistic. If there are firearms available to some, but not all police in the UK, is that sufficient?
In San Bernardino, it took four minutes for the first armed police to arrive on the scene. That is fairly quick, in my opinion, and I am not sure how that would be improved upon unless the attack occured where the poice already were. In Paris, the response took 35 minutes during which several people were shot. Is this a good response time? Not if you are one of the victims that were shot. The attack in Paris was much more effective due to the numerous sites that were hit. This is something the US police need to work on. Instead of sending all police to a shooting location, they must learn to stay in place, wherever they are, to defend against subsequent attacks. I believe this is a lesson learned and the US police should have a current tactic in place if that does actually happen.
So, the question remains. Should all law enforcement carry firearms? Until this type of threat no longer exists, I think they should to deter attackers. Will this completely protect the public? No way. As had been said before, suicide bombers will not be affected by armed police. That is a terrible tactic that works in almost any environment. I am not sure why we have not seen more? My only answer to that question is strict control of materials used in suicide bombs.
Is the UK at more risk like Interpol suggests? I think they are, but is that risk enough to arm every policeman in the UK?
You would have to look for details of each police force to answer that question. Here's the result of one search for Greater Manchester Police.Quote:
Originally Posted by rickschoppers
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reque..._response_timeQuote:
Dear Greater Manchester Police,
What is the average response time for emergency calls involving
only armed units?
Yours faithfully,
Taylor Jones
Below is quoted from the downloaded text ...Quote:
Dear Taylor
our ref: GSA4982/12
Please find attached the response to your recent request made under the Freedom of Information Act 2000.
Many thanks
Amanda Ratcliffe
Information Compliance & Records Management Assistant
Information Complaince & Records Management Unit
Information Services Branch
Greater Manchester Police
Tel - 0161-856-2529
ext - 62531
So pretty quick in Manchester. However, it doesn't make it clear how that time is calculated. Less than 4 minutes to reach the location? Maybe, if ARVs are on the move at all times. Maybe not if they are sitting in the police station.Quote:
21st November 2012
Dear Mr Jones
FREEDOM OF INFORMATION REQUEST REFERENCE NO: 004982/12
I write in connection with your request for information dated 05/11/2012, which was received by Greater Manchester Police on 05/11/2012. I note you seek access to the following information:
• What is the average response time for emergency calls involving only armed units?
Following receipt of your request searches were conducted within Greater Manchester Police to locate information relevant to your request. I can confirm that the information you have requested is held by Greater Manchester Police.
For the period 1sr April – 15th November 2012 Greater Manchester Police con confirm that the average response time for the armed response vehicles was 3:56 minutes.
14 minutes in Woolwich (London) for one situation in 2013.
Police commander forced to defend response time to desperate Woolwich killing 999 calls as he claims armed officers were there in 14 minutes | Daily Mail Online
Link Bob to where it says SO6, is in fact SCO9, where did I say City of London are routinely armed and the topic is armed police, not only the MET.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrB0bWe are talking about the Met here, did you forget? I did look it up and I got the details in my post directly from the SCO19 web site. Why do you think they are lying?Quote:
Originally Posted by jamescollister
The City of London Police, with whom I work on a regular basis, are not routinely armed. Where are you getting this nonsense from?
Link up or shut up.
Not much point posting relevant info on here. Those with entrenched views from a vastly different culture dont want to know.
If reports are correct there are other sources of armed security on the UK streets.
The SAS for one,whom are reported to be in plain clothes, and with MI5 and undercover SAS.
Whilst people being armed is a threat, I would say public transport has to be the most vulnerable,for a possible suicide or bomb threat, as a regular user of trains whilst over there, I see no security checks whatsoever.
Much of the relevant data required to answer these questions is not in the public domain. Nor sbould it be.
Re rrsponse times in central London. British drivers will always move over and give way but only taxis and bus drivets use congestion charge roads. The rest are foreign muppets usually on CD plates with immunity and no common sense.
Maybe thats the whole idea Jack. You are not supposed to see rhem?Quote:
Originally Posted by Horatio Hornblower
Forgot, anther armed force, Ministry of Defense police, these are not military police, but a civilian force.
So when you start adding up numbers. there will be a lot more armed cops then people think.
Sure, given a big enough incident, plans are in place to deploy the forces where necessary, public would see cops, since the uniforms all look much the same.
Ministry of Defense police are mainly restricted to MOD property. Likewise, Civil Nuclear police are restricted to nuclear sites. They are not really "cops" as we normally think of police. More like security personnel for locations that might need armed security though they may have some other police type remit (i.e., wrt theft from such areas etc).
You can go top of the Army recruitment class for such a stupid answer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chassamuiMaybe thats the whole idea Jack. You are not supposed to see rhem?Quote:
Originally Posted by Horatio Hornblower
That's a yes and no one, their primary role is security, but they both have investigative units, anti terror units and deal with civilians.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neverna
They can be deployed anywhere if required, so in a terrorist attack, or impending attack no reason they can't be used.
Would bet, table top exercises have been done on every scenario they could think of, and they would have a plan as to where they would be placed. MODs job is to protect the nation from attack.
Makes little difference which force shoots the terrorist, and they are sworn constables.
Cut and paste Wilki.
Other constables[edit]
There are many constables who are not members of territorial police forces. The most notable are members of the three forces referred to as special police forces: the British Transport Police, Ministry of Defence Police and Civil Nuclear Constabulary. Such officers have the "powers and privileges of a constable" in matters relating to their work.[27][28][29] BTP and MDP officers have additional jurisdiction where requested by a constable of another force, in which case they take on that constable's jurisdiction.[30][31] Upon request from the chief police officer of a police force, members of one of the above three forces can be given the full powers of constables in the police area of the requesting force.[30][32] This was used to supplement police numbers in the areas surrounding the 2005 G8 summit at Gleneagles.
here's an answer to freedom of info act 2012
RESULT OF SEARCHES
The searches located one record relevant to your request.
Question 1
How many Police Officers are routinely armed with a gun in the met?
Answer
2044 Police Officers are routinely armed with a gun in the MPS on a day to
day basis.
Question 2
How many Police Officers are routinely armed with a taser in the Met?
Answer
2228 Police Officers are routinely armed with a taser in the MPS on a day
to day basis.
Question 3
Regarding questions 1 and 2, could you also give each number as a
percentage compared to the total number of police officers in the Met.
(eg, 20% of officers in the Met carry the tasor) ps. By "routinely", I
mean on a day to day basis.
Answer
The MPS has 38,987 Police Officers including 6,667 Special Constables.
This figure does not include the 3,825 PCSO's
Officers armed with a gun is 5.2%
Officers armed with a taser is 5.7%
Below is full bullshit from the MPS
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reque...ice_officers_2
I am not the one who failed to spot security force operatives on public transport Jacky.Quote:
Originally Posted by Horatio HornblowerYou can go top of the Army recruitment class for such a stupid answer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chassamuiMaybe thats the whole idea Jack. You are not supposed to see rhem?Quote:
Originally Posted by Horatio Hornblower
The railways also have there own dedicated police service.
A bit more on the MOD police, which I never new before, guess most people wounldn't have heard.
8 August 2011: The 2011 England riots. Two days after the riots began, as a result of a direct tasking from the Home Office, the Chief Constable MDP, deployed all available MDP public order officers to the Metropolitan Police Area to assist with restoration and the maintenance of public order in London. MDP General Police Duties officers were also sent to reinforce Essex police, to backfill for Essex officers who had been sent into London.[57]
lol these people can see inside suitcases /bags can they.
Lot of carriages on trains and one hell of a lot of people travelling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chassamuiI am not the one who failed to spot security force operatives on public transport Jacky.Quote:
Originally Posted by Horatio HornblowerYou can go top of the Army recruitment class for such a stupid answer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chassamuiMaybe thats the whole idea Jack. You are not supposed to see rhem?Quote:
Originally Posted by Horatio Hornblower
The railways also have there own dedicated police service.
^^ "all available MDP public order officers"
It would be interesting to know how many that was in numerical terms. Half a dozen? Twenty?