Tunisia: Gunmen Attack Two Tourist Hotels

**hazz** · 30-06-2015, 05:42 AM

I see your point there bob, I mean selectivly disclosing accurate data so that people it fits the narrative you want people to belive. A narraive that would not entirly suriave full disclosure.... seems a perprectly reasonable thing to do, certainly the NRA would agree with you.

The gun lobby use this techniqe using accurate data to show that the UK without gun control has a higher assult rate than the UK. The data is accurate, but full disclosure shows this to be a lie.

Now given the most people's concern about terrorism is getting killed. why choose to only display number of terrorist incidents, why not number ot deaths. In the case of the loonwatch artical, its simply because the terrorist incident data supported their narrative and the alternative data did not.

both the deaths resulting from terroism and terrorist incidents subsets are both accurate and give polar opposite impressions of where the problem lies.
This is spin, it is food for fools, who will lap up any spin or lie if agrees with what they would like to be true. Its how you turn accurate stats and data into lies
Booners laps this up.... as it would appear you do.

If you are in the army or police in spain, corcia or northern ireland then in terms of the risk of dying in a terrorist attack, separatist terrors represent much of that risk. If you are an ordinary European civilian, then Islamic terrorism is a significant proportion of that risk.

To say the terrorism is almost all muslim is a lie
To say that islamic terrorism is an insignificant component terrorism in europe also a lie
That is unless you have decided you want to believe one of these lies, because it agrees with what you would like to be true. In which case, as you say, whats the problem?

The point is that this risk is very low, much lower than being killed crossing the road. A risk we do not get paranoid about, stressed over or loose sleep. So it is rather silly to get so wound up about a risk that is even smaller.

There is a problem is islamic terrorism, but it is nowhere near serious enough to justify giving up our freedoms, chaining our behaviors or the very nature of our societies to fight it. but to say it is not a problem and to fail to take reasonable steps to contain and mitigate against it, could cause it to become a significact problem that could destabilize our society, by radicalizing people into the hard right.

**stroller** · 30-06-2015, 05:51 AM

^^^
I have no problem with countering an unsubstantiated, prejudiced claim with a statistically sourced one. Curiously enough, nobody has pinpointed where loonwatch falls short.

The issue, if one was to look closely, are the parameters of the statistics, i.e. the FBI's and Europol's definition of 'terrorism', which differ from the populist understanding of beheadings and suicide bombers.

I suggest those who wish to discuss the issue with sincerity rather than slogans, inform themselves, so they can make arguments which go beyond the level of Daily Mail and wingnut blogs.

**Storekeeper** · 30-06-2015, 07:01 AM

Originally Posted by DrB0b

If you're serious about taking up arms to fight IS there are several militias looking for recruits.

Lions of Rojava on Facebook.

**Storekeeper** · 30-06-2015, 07:07 AM

From what I've read the gunman was studying for his Masters degree and gave absolutely no indication he had been radicalized. Wonder if it's possible the bloke had been blackmailed for something? People don't just go off the reservation overnight.

RIP to the victims and their families.

**hazz** · 30-06-2015, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by stroller

^^^
I have no problem with countering an unsubstantiated, prejudiced claim with a statistically sourced one. Curiously enough, nobody has pinpointed where loonwatch falls short.

sorry I thought that I had.

you do not fight a lie with a different lie.

the initial dataset loon watch used was accurate. however once they started to carry pick the data, selecting subset of that data that fitted their narrative and ignoring the data that did not. The data they presented stopped being accurate, a lie though omission.

To me it seems a very obvious issue, the origin of the quote 'lies, damed lies and statistics', for many in the age of alternative media, the lie you would like to believe has become the new truth.

**billy the kid** · 30-06-2015, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by Storekeeper

and gave absolutely no indication he had been radicalized.

he was known at his uni for radical views and was reported
but none took any interest.
he had 4 or 5 friends who were similar.
apparently.

**klong toey** · 10-07-2015, 02:33 PM

Tunisia Massacre: Killer's Parents Defend Son.

The mother of the man who killed 38 tourists on a beach in Tunisia tells Sky News she believes her son was framed.

Sky News has been given the first full television interview with the parents of the gunman who shot dead dozens of tourists on a beach in Tunisia.
Seifeddine Rezgui, 23, gunned down 38 people, including 30 British nationals, in the resort of Sousse two weeks ago.
Now, in an exclusive interview, his parents describe the final moments they spent with their son, just one day before the attack.
"When I came back from work I found him playing with his brother and on his laptop. They took a picture together," his mother Radhia Manai said.
"The next day the police knocked at our door. We didn’t have any idea what happened. I thought he was with a friend in Tunis. I didn’t believe it. Even now, I swear to God, I don’t believe what happened."
Rezgui's family insist he was brainwashed into carrying out the attack, but have not named any group or individual.
"They got to my son. They used him and they framed him for the crime," his mother said.
"I can’t imagine he could carry out such an operation? He was carrying his weapon and was just walking. He didn’t fire it. I want to know who fired and then framed him," she added.
Tunisia Massacre: Killer's Parents Defend Son

**bababags** · 10-07-2015, 06:36 PM

Tunisia backlash against Britain as PM warns of terror 'repercussions' - Telegraph

So now Tunisia threatens tourists not to leave??

**panama hat** · 10-07-2015, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by bababags

Tunisia backlash against Britain as PM warns of terror 'repercussions' - Telegraph

So now Tunisia threatens tourists not to leave??

Did you even read the article? Oh, let me re-phrase that - you didn't read the article.

"Britain's advice that tourists should leave Tunisia because of the risk of another terror attack will "have repercussions", the country's prime minister has said.
Habib Essid said he would telephone David Cameron on Friday to respond to Foreign Office advice that the North African nation was unsafe for holidays.
Tunisia's ambassador to London has already warned Britain is playing into the hands for terrorists with the new threat warning, which is likley to devastate the Tunisian tourist industry.
Mr Essid said: "We will ring the British prime minister to tell him we have done everything we can to protect all British interests and those of others countries - that's out duty.""

Nice try at obfuscation

**bababags** · 10-07-2015, 07:27 PM

^No, how are they playing into the hands of terrorists?

The repercussions are simply less money for the Tunisians. Their Government, displeased with that, goes for the old chestnut of terrorists getting what they want.

**bababags** · 10-07-2015, 07:45 PM

Also, in response to PanamaHat's message to me about twisting the story, here is the Guardian:

Tunisia and Britain in diplomatic row as UK tourists fly home

Tunisian prime minister reportedly says revised travel advice two weeks after Sousse massacre will have repercussions for Britain but does not give details

Tunisia and Britain in diplomatic row as UK tourists fly home | World news | The Guardian

**bababags** · 10-07-2015, 07:47 PM

Also, deeper in the article that aparrently I did not read:

Tunisia’s prime minister, Habib Essid, reportedly told a late-night session of parliament that the revised guidance would have repercussions for Britain although he did not specify further.

**stroller** · 11-07-2015, 12:42 AM

Originally Posted by bababags

^No, how are they playing into the hands of terrorists?

The repercussions are simply less money for the Tunisians. Their Government, displeased with that, goes for the old chestnut of terrorists getting what they want.

The shooter didn't want foreign tourists in Tunisia, now the Brits publish a travel alert = less tourists due to terrorism.

Numnuts.

**panama hat** · 11-07-2015, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by stroller

Originally Posted by bababags

^No, how are they playing into the hands of terrorists?

The repercussions are simply less money for the Tunisians. Their Government, displeased with that, goes for the old chestnut of terrorists getting what they want.

The shooter didn't want foreign tourists in Tunisia, now the Brits publish a travel alert = less tourists due to terrorism.

Numnuts.

Fairly straightforward one would think

**HermantheGerman** · 11-07-2015, 12:24 PM

Could this be the end for the tourist industry in muslim countries ?
When will Egypt, Morocco, Emirates etc. follow ?

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