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Agree. Complete piece of theatrical staged nonsense pandering to the sentimental hand-wringers in a vain attempt at wriggling off the hook. If you are off to the big chair you really want to be starting to wind back on plans for the future such as marriage.Quote:
Originally Posted by ltnt
:rolleyes:
New options for executions: Come to Thailand and ride a bicycle get run over by a drunk and then complain about road safety...makes as much sense as the assholes who pretend to hate all things about death and want to let the scum live a normal healthy life among their not so normal neighbors...Wonder Gam/Cor wants these folks to move next door to him? More likely a NIMBY.Quote:
Originally Posted by Looper
Gam/Cor? :confused:
Who's that?
^QC of course...
Err, what difference would how many times she did it matter? Cocaine is quite a nice drug, everyone who can get it has a sniff including Indonesians in their "high society" and of course all the farang in Bali will have a go, given opportunity.Quote:
Originally Posted by ltnt
Anyone who proclaims a death penalty for drugs importation is clearly an idiot.Period.
My beef here is that Sandiford is paying a political price with her life whereas the gang leader Julian Ponder bought a prison sentence.
It ain't right no matter how you cut it ( get the pun ) but Itnt your sanctimonious shit is getting real tired. This story is about hypocrisy, not nasty drug dealers killing children at the school gates.
There's a difference TheGent. Whether Ponder was the suspected ring leader or not he was tried for 'possession' which carries a maximum life sentence. He was caught with 23 g. Hardly a huge amount is it? Whereas Sandiford was smuggling 10.6lb of cocaine therefore received, as per the law, a death sentence. You do the crime you takes yer chance. Bye bye Sandiford.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seekingasylum
The Australian Federal Police (AFP) have defended their role in the arrests of the Bali Nine Australian drug gang.
Information shared by the AFP with Indonesian police in 2005 led to the arrest and conviction of the gang and the execution of the two ringleaders.
Police have been criticised for reporting the men despite knowing they could face the death penalty.
But senior officers said they were unable to arrest the gang before they left Australia for Indonesia.
Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran were killed by an Indonesian firing squad on Wednesday despite Australian diplomatic pressure.
The AFP will soon be called before a parliamentary committee to explain the decision.
'Fanciful and offensive'
Commissioner Colvin told a media conference on Monday: "If we had had enough information to arrest the Bali Nine before they left Australia we would have done exactly that."
He said the AFP did not know how many members were in the gang or what drugs they were dealing with, which was why they contacted their Indonesian counterparts.
Bali Nine members Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan in jail in Indonesia
Police shared information with Indonesia that led to the execution of two Australian drug traffickers
He said media reports that the AFP found out about the gang from a tip-off from the father of one of the gang, were incorrect because the AFP already knew about the syndicate.
He said also reports the AFP had "shopped" the gang to Indonesia in a bid to curry favour with police there were "fanciful and offensive".
However, he admitted one of the investigating officers asked to be removed from the team because he was upset about the risk the gang members might face the death penalty.
Commissioner Colvin also said he could not guarantee that other Australians caught smuggling drugs in countries with the death penalty would not suffer the same fate.
He said police took into account the risk of passing on information, but that police guidelines said they must also work with foreign police.
line
The case of the Bali Nine
The eight men and one woman were arrested in April 2005 at an airport and hotel in Bali, Indonesia after a tip-off from Australian police. They were trying to carry 8.3kg (18lb) of heroin back to Australia.
In 2006 a court ruled that Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran had recruited the others and paid their costs. They were sentenced to death and executed on 29 April.
The other seven are serving sentences of between 20 years and life, after some had death sentences revoked on appeal.
Chan and Sukumaran had repeatedly appealed against their sentences, saying they were reformed characters - Chan taught Bible and cookery classes in prison while Sukumaran became an artist.
line
'Agonising decision'
Deputy Commissioner Michael Phelan, who made the decision to share information with Indonesia, said he worried about it at the time and ever since.
He said when he made the decision, protecting Australians from drugs was at the forefront of his mind, not Australia's relationship with Indonesia.
"If anyone thinks I have not agonised over this for the past 10 years then they don't know me," he said.
Commissioner Colvin said it was vital Australia worked closely with overseas law enforcement agencies to tackle trans-national crime.
"It is a hard reality but many of these countries still have a death penalty for these offences," he said.
The AFP receives about 72,000 requests a year via Interpol to share information about suspected criminal activity.
In the past three years, it has received about 250 such requests from countries that have the death penalty. Of that number, 15 requests from a range of countries including China were rejected.
Guidelines setting priorities for how the AFP deals with foreign police were strengthened in 2009 and include weighing up the value of such interaction and the risk that suspects could face the death penalty.
Australia police defend Bali Nine operation - BBC News
Err, no, not quite.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pragmatic
Ponder was the ringleader of the gang. He was incriminated by the mule Sandiford who co-operated fully with the authorities in leading them to him and his henchmen. In any civilised country he would have received the greater sentence since he was the architect and mastermind of the criminal conspiracy. In negotiating a deal with the judicial authorities he has escaped with a light sentence but the killing of Sanford will serve two purposes: Wogododo gets to look tough, politically, and Ponder gets to tie off a loose end which might cause some later embarrassment if she were to live.
Sandiford's impending death is a travesty on several levels but I don't expect many here to appreciate that.
Incidentally, there is no one living on Bali who doesn't know that Julian Ponder was the king pin, thuggish, major drug dealer who enjoyed a lavish lifestyle on the back of his trade and had immunity from prosecution through bribery. Sandiford is a dippy stupid old bint without a pot to piss in.
^^ What the hell have they got to defend apart from the fact they could have arrested them earlier.
Just doing their job in a difficult situation whereby their supreme commanders want to catch the bigger fish and often interfere with blatant lesser important crime.
The police love big wins.............RIP TO THE HUMANS MURDERED BECAUSE OF THEIR OWN STUPIDITY AND GREED.
Who's, yours or the medias or both? Tired you say...guess what? Do you ever read the crap you post up? Sanctimonious isn't an accurate enough description of your anal script Gent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seekingasylum
Where do you think those drugs end up? Talk about some subject you actually know something about and not some commentary learned gleaning the scripts off Google...
In this case, most of it would have ended up in the noses of Westerners in Bali, what did you think?Quote:
Originally Posted by ltnt
Strange place to put it mate!Quote:
Originally Posted by stroller
Any benefits or are other orifices more practical?
Actually into the general population stroller...that's a lot of coke for the local ex-pat community to consume mate...looking over the numbers and quantities busted it must be a very diverse drug scene in the ex-pat community as well as high consumption rates...com'on stroker you can do better than that?Quote:
Originally Posted by stroller
Gents still unfit for human consumption at any level, as he maintains that sucking the snot out of a dead whores nose is acceptable practice as well. Horses for courses stroller.
Sandiford would have 'incriminated' a snake once she realised the shit she was in. Ponder may well have been the ringleader but being fingered by a trafficker, facing the death penalty', ain't proof that he was the mastermind. One needs evidence. Other than Sandifords say so they had nothing on him other than possession of 23g. The sign of a user not a dealer/trafficker.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seekingasylum
Did I say anything about ex-pat community? Bali is an international party destination.Quote:
Originally Posted by ltnt
The "general population" of Bali, on monthly wages of $10 - 50, can afford to buy Cocaine? lol
One needs to be a little more informed and specific when throwing wholesale accusations around and cheering executions.
I'd say 23g exceeds an amount to be considered for personal use only, but hardly indicative of a big-timer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pragmatic
Actually you did say or infer western use only...I have to laugh at the proposition that there are only poor people who use drugs in Indonesia stroller...coke is notorious as a social cocktail in many upper end parties which Indonesian has an abundant upper class...as well Indo could also be the "gateway," to other Muslim countries in this drug trafficking...Iran one of the biggest.
Informed? As you apparently are not...
Have you not heard that Westerners holiday and party in Bali? Oh, and I said "most of it", please pay attention.Quote:
Originally Posted by ltnt
Read again. I suggested poor people cannot afford to buy Cocaine...Quote:
I have to laugh at the proposition that there are only poor people who use drugs in Indonesia stroller...
That's a bit different from "the general population" as you originally suggested, much more specific.Quote:
coke is notorious as a social cocktail in many upper end parties which Indonesian has an abundant upper class...
Thanks for taking my advice and correcting your mistake.
Welcome. :)Do you seriously believe the Coke was intended to be moved to Iran? lolQuote:
as well Indo could also be the "gateway," to other Muslim countries in this drug trafficking...Iran one of the biggest.
lolQuote:
Informed? As you apparently are not...
pathetic
Why would westerners come to Bali for drugs on holidays? some would partake in a casual basis, but I would seriously doubt there's a large contingent of ex-pats who holiday in Bali specifically due to access to drugs...not like there's a guy you could trust to sell you drugs on the island in the first place mate...Is that what you do? Buy drugs from strangers when on holidays? Fruit Loop you are mate.Quote:
Originally Posted by stroller
I used Iran as a possible route user, plenty of drugs being pushed in the Middle East stroller in case your ever there and need a fix. the stuff from Afghanistan goes primarily toward the EU...Israel used to produce some of the finest "blond hash," in the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by stroller
I think I know my markets well stroller, you're only guessing.
Why the insults and innuendo?
A rather interesting statement there from the AFP. Globally it does seem to be a tradition not to arrest people as they leave the country to get drugs to smuggle in... So no surprise that the AFP did not do anything to stop them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loy Toy
However they are being more than just a bit disingenuous to say that this and sharing intelligence with Indonesian were the only options they had.
There are many options for the police when they are aware of a conspiracy to smuggle:
- let them go and arrest them with the drugs at the airport on the way back.
- let them go, let them come back follow them and arrest them and sections of the distribution network.
- let them go, tell the Indonesian's and let them go after the Indonesian side of the conspiracy.
- let them go, tell the Indonesians as that they do what they can to get evidence aginst the Indonesian side of the conspiracy, then let the smugger's return to au and then follow them and arrest them with sections of the distribution network.
As these are strategies that have been percused by many police forces around the world, unless the AFP are particularly stupid... they will have considered these option too..... infact one would expect this list of options and more would have been routinely considered as part of any investigation.
The reason they are not discussed is because the AFP have decided on a rather shallow damage limitation narrative, a fiction, that they had two options do nothing to tell the Indonesian's in the full knowledge that they would be putting all of these Australians at risk of the death sentence. The resigantion of an officer from the investigation over this robs AFP of any uncertainty as to the risks they were putting these people at.
there are two ways that au can help forign governments deal with crime involving australians.
- you can extradite them, to face justice for the crimes the commit oversease
- you can give prior notice of their intent to commit crimes overases so they can face justice.
as far as outcomes are concerned there is no difference between these two options, you commit a crime overseas's you face justice overseas.
Now in au, as in most democracies, only the politicians have the legal and moral authority to make law and govern government policy. It was a political decision to abolish the death sentence and it was a political decision to prohibit extradition when the death sentence is a possibility. irrispective on how you feel about the death sentence, I believe we can all agree that its politicians and not the police or judges who ultimately decide on its availability.
This is something the courts understand that the death sentence is a political decision on not theirs. they dont hand out death sentences and they dont allow extraction to death sentences either.
Under these circumstances it is common sense that the only branch of government that has the authority to make the decision to share intelligence that might put Australians at risk of facing the death sentence is parliament ans its ministers.
Obviously Deputy Commissioner Michael Phelan and the AFP disagree. They believe this is a decision they have the right to make all on their own.
Ultimatly the barli nine all made stupid a stupid arrigent thoughtless decision that started a chain of events their lead to the death of two of them. And for that reaosn they have noone but themselves to blame for their fate. And that is the nature of the world small stupid decisions have life change coniqunes that you have no control over.
However we also have Deputy Commissioner Michael Phelan, who when faced with the many choices as to what to do about the barli nine conspiracy to smuggle drugs into australia. chose one of the few options that put australians at risk of punishments which the austrlain people have decided are unacceptable.
This was a stupid arrogant decision, but fortunately for Phelan the worst that he will face is the end of his career.
Not because of two dead australians, but qute simply do you want the AFP run by someone who does not understand that the AFP is there to implement policy set by parliament... Not what it wants, how it wants, when it wants.
Now in thailand we routinly see that the effect of having both a police force and a military who belive ' there is nothing under the sun that they cannot do'. Do you really want a police force in australia who seem to be starting to think the same way. Do you think someone who thinks event remotly like that should be in a position of power in the AFP.
Thats why Deputy Commissioner Michael Phelan has been bothered his bali nine decision, if only he had sort the ok from his ministery/minister.... he would have nothing to worry about.
And this narrative 'that we had no other option that what we did' is shallow, self serving to distract everyone from the real question. Why did make this decision in a backroom without any approval from your ministry? And do we want people running the police who do not think the people and parliament have the last word in policing policy?
So the Old Pomgolian bint is up next.
Only fair innit. All that nasty cocaine hidden in the bottom of her suit case.
So lets see the do goody wankers cry a river when she is shot up the chimney.
They cry a river because the Aussies done 10 years before being topped, some retards thought that was most unfair. :confused:
So if we listen to them, most won't by the way, The Pomgolian should be marched out the back and shot within the next half hour.
That would be much more fair huh . :spam2:
This article, sorry I can't copy/paste this article, argues that Sandiford is a little more than a minor player in this story.
Embarrassment for Reprieve As Truth About Sandiford's Drug Dealing Emerges - CrimeJail.com
The truth is that Lindsay Sandiford is a seasoned drug trafficker. The Lindsay Sandiford Fairy Tale in the Land of the Gods - Bali | Kathryn BonellaKathryn Bonella
But then she is not beng executed for trafficng.... she is being executed as the mastermind behind the operation. In what is quite possibly the only example where the mastermind did their own smuggling rather than getting some sap traffiicer to do it for you.
Isn't the truth a little closer to
She is a pennyless trafficer, who coperated wiht the police who caught her leading to teh arrest of what would normally be considered the masterminds.
These chaps bought their way out of the death sentence by paying the Indonesian justice system to reclassify then as minor operators and granny as the master minds.... thus master minds got minimal sentences under the circumstances and the Indonesian got their mastermind to kill.
I thinks there's a bit in that, that people can bitch about. Afterall as long as this corruption exists.... there will always be people who being able to buy their own 'justice' will be encouraged to setup smuggling operations.
No, just some stupid woman who somehow got caught up in trafficking although I have no idea how.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pragmatic