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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Ghost Of The Moog
    They may not have sacrificed their principles but they sacrificed their lives.
    As many have done before them, and given us the rights and freedoms we enjoy, and all too often take for granted.

    This radical lunatic fringe version of Islam is attempting to change a way of life...shut down those freedoms of expression that we paid dearly for in the past.

    Are we supposed to allow these people to dictate what can and can not be published in our own countries? These satirical magazines and TV shows are part of everyday life in the western democracies. They can often be quite acidic and insulting towards our own political leaders, religious leaders and so on..... I've seen people I personally like and admire, roasted by them, but it's all part of our way of life and we manage to take it without feeling the inclination to load up our AK47's and kill them all.

    If any group migrating from another culture/society moves to the west and is allowed to shut down (by violence or otherwise) these often provocative publications, just because THEY feel offended.....where do we stop? Everything we do or say seems to offend somebody from somewhere....

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Ghost Of The Moog
    There have been long periods of history when Catholics were not at all lenient on heretics.
    An anti-Catholic pampheteer would be burnt at the stake by them
    Yes, let's go back to the 14th century for an example.

    You can find current examples of Christian violent extremism but nothing coming close to the scale of murder and terrorism that is spawned and tolerated in Islamic communities.

  3. #53
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    21st century Islam and 16th Century Christianity were/are both at roughly the same age.

    So, if you don't want intolerant Muslims in enlightened western countries - then don't let them in - because they are not minded to be passive. They don't take provocation well. They lash out. Let them continue their war of Sunni/Shiite apostasy in their own region and don't interfere. They hate each other even more than they hate Jews and Christians.

    But they are going to be allowed in. Because the west is just too permissive.

    However, letting in aggressive bigots and then proceeding to insult them - is a recipe for what happened yesterday in Paris.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Ghost Of The Moog View Post
    21st century Islam and 16th Century Christianity were/are both at roughly the same age.

    So, if you don't want intolerant Muslims in enlightened western countries - then don't let them in - because they are not minded to be passive. They don't take provocation well. They lash out. Let them continue their war of Sunni/Shiite apostasy in their own region and don't interfere. They hate each other even more than they hate Jews and Christians.

    But they are going to be allowed in. Because the west is just too permissive.

    However, letting in aggressive bigots and then proceeding to insult them - is a recipe for what happened yesterday in Paris.
    That's hit the nail on the head exactly.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Ghost Of The Moog View Post
    21st century Islam and 16th Century Christianity were/are both at roughly the same age.

    So, if you don't want intolerant Muslims in enlightened western countries - then don't let them in - because they are not minded to be passive. They don't take provocation well. They lash out. Let them continue their war of Sunni/Shiite apostasy in their own region and don't interfere. They hate each other even more than they hate Jews and Christians.

    But they are going to be allowed in. Because the west is just too permissive.

    However, letting in aggressive bigots and then proceeding to insult them - is a recipe for what happened yesterday in Paris.
    Oh, well then!

    Are you aware that Muslims regularly and on a daily basis insult and parody any religious group outside of Islam?

    Do you hear of any mass hysteria coming from Xtians about perceived Islamic insults to their religions, as displayed by brain-washed ragheads ?

    Those ragheads weren't 'let in' because they were initially aggressive bigots, but because do-gooder Xtian principles advocated compassion for their plight, given shelter, support and sustenance on a humanitarian basis.

    Later, after enjoying the support of European nations, they becoming radicalized, as seemingly in this case, and some turn to militant jihadism and decide to kill anyone deemed to insult their precious sky fairies.

    So what do you suggest we do?

    Deport all the ragheads back to their shit-hole countries and defend our own values and principles, or keep offering a sop to the murderers, just as Chamberlain did to another violent supremacist on a mission of extermination of supposed inferiors, good old Adolf Hitler?

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by wasabi View Post
    The Media is reporting now that they where professionally trained, spoke good French,
    Well My guess at this stag, being a bar stool SAS special knowledge expert.
    They looked to Me from the video footage I have seen,
    That they where French Foreign Legion.
    These new sleeper cell recruits signing up 5 years ago from a Muslim shithole, wait patiently and get paid to learn to kill the stupid Farang.
    They were apparently armed with Kalashnikov assault rifles and a rocket launcher. Somehow, I don't think it takes a five year indenture in the FFL to acquire the expertise to use such weaponry. Most child fighters in Uganda and elsewhere in Africa seem to pick up the skills in a couple of weeks. As to proficiency in the French language it may be useful to remind yourself of France's colonial past which still embroils them today in West and Central Africa. Syria was its own stomping ground, too.
    Algerians, Moroccans and Tunisians still speak French and do provide a fertile ground for Islamic nutjobs waging jihad.

    On the other hand it could simply be second, third generation Arab immigrants from the Maghreb doing what our Islamic nutjobs have done and seem intent on doing. Getting access to automatic weaponry is easier for them in France simply because of ease of access from elsewhere in the Continent, etc.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by ENT View Post

    So what do you suggest we do?
    What will happen is

    1) The killers will be jailed - and they will accept that and plead guilty happily, regarding themselves as soldiers of Allah.
    2) The deaths of the 12 journalists will be portrayed in Europe as the price of upholding a western civilization.
    3) In five years time, Charlie Hebdo will be forgotten and there will be as many Islamic residents in Europe as there are today.

    None of these are particularly fair or right, but are the likely social outcomes.

  8. #58
    Thailand Expat Boon Mee's Avatar
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    As Obama continues to let all the terrorists out of Guantanamo, it is now reported that the one of the two brothers who stormed Charlie Hebdo, Cherif Kouachi, was a jihadis fighters in Iraq.

    From 2005:

    The three men are believed to have left Paris for Iraq last March, accompanied by three other Frenchmen of North African descent, Redouane el-Hakim, Tarek Ouinis and Abdelhalim Badjoudj, all of whom have been killed, according to French intelligence.

    According to intelligence officials, Mr. Hakim is believed to have died during a bombardment of Falluja in July, Mr. Ouinis during a firefight with American soldiers in September and Mr. Badjoudj in a suicide attack in October. Mr. Hakim's older brother, Boubaker, is being held in Syria, where he was arrested before he could enter Iraq.

    The French authorities believe that the men were recruited by Farid Benyettou, 23, who was arrested two weeks ago as he prepared to send two more young men to Iraq. The men, Thamer Bouchnak and Cherif Kouachi, both 22, have told the police that they met Mr. Benyettou at the Addawa mosque near their homes in Paris in the 19th Arrondissement, a largely Arab working-class district.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/05/in...ers.html?_r=1&

    Mebe Bath House Barry should let 'em all out and be done with it, eh?
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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Ghost Of The Moog
    An anti-Catholic pampheteer would be burnt at the stake by them
    Today?

    Quote Originally Posted by ENT
    insult their precious sky fairies.
    Last edited by charleyboy; 08-01-2015 at 11:13 AM.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Ghost Of The Moog View Post
    Free Speech (and cue someone to cite Voltaire out of context) is not about insulting people.

    Socal was the kind of person who thought it was. 'I live or die by free speech' he said (demanding the right to slag off whomsoever he chose - his request denied by moderators)

    If you're a journalist, you're making yourself a war correspondent by taking the piss out of Islam. And you know darn well you're taking that risk. Actually its worse than that, a war correspondent just reports, a journalist who does this is making himself the prime frontline target.

    Some bloke on the BBC now moaning about people who 'don't like being laughed at' Well, if they don't like it, don't laugh at them. Look at how people on Teakdoor take their dignity seriously and gas on for years on end about perceived slights - and they're anonymous handles !

    People don't break lese majeste laws in Thailand, so perhaps French folk should lay off Islam and Americans should lay off Kim Jong Un - unless they are prepared to risk reprisals. Its just common sense, especially if you are a bread winner in the family.
    I would like to think that you are simply trolling the forum as the alternative would be rather disappointing....

    Yes you are right. offending, insulting or annoying people prepared to use violence can be dangerous. But on of these reasons Europe is such a peaceful place is that you do have the right to offend without the risk of death either at the hands of the state, religious groups or individuals. And because of this we are able to discuss contentious issues and change our society, satire is an important part of this and its all about insulting people of their hypocrisy...

    The cartoons that seem to have started this were a justified satire on the hypocrisy and denial within the Muslim community who seem to be stuck in some Orwellian denial complex where they have absolutely no problem simultaneously that there is no compulsion in religion and that apostates should be killed. that for a religion of peace.... it does seem to involved in a lot of violence and murder.

    You talk about these victims as fools that got what they deserved; I see these people as defenders of the freedoms that we enjoy in Europe, and one of those rights is to say what you want within the limits of not promoting hate or violence.

    What you seem to be promoting is that its those who are most prepared to use violence that should be the arbiters as to what we can and cannot do in our society... that we should appease them.
    Personally I solute these victims of religious violence in exercising their hard won freedoms in the face of threats and intimidation over your cowardness... ok... good for your personal health and family at the cost of the fabric of society that makes it possible for you to have the life you enjoy

    Can anyone tell me of a group that has historically attacked satirists and has not gone on to do serious harm to their society and the world in general?
    Teakdoor CSI, TD's best post-reality thinkers

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  11. #61
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    What you seem to be promoting is that its those who are most prepared to use violence that should be the arbiters as to what we can and cannot do in our society... that we should appease them.
    that is exactly what he seems to be promoting, and exactly why he is so wrong.

    jihadists kill, and they do not need provocation to do so. their ultimate aim is to rid the world of all unbelievers and for the world to be a caliphate, and they are in no hurry to achieve their aim.

    if we allow them to have their way by allowing them to dictate to us, then the world will indeed be dragged back to the stone age.

  12. #62
    Thailand Expat Boon Mee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charleyboy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Ghost Of The Moog
    An anti-Catholic pampheteer would be burnt at the stake by them
    Today?
    Asked back in Post #50.

    Never received a clear answer...

  13. #63
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    Oh ENT, give it a rest.

    They're just criminals and all one can do in a Western liberalised democracy is to punish them.

    It isn't a doctrinal war, there are no strategic aims, they have no unified structure, they have no reliable funding and, more to the point, they have no natural refuge. All they have is the transient support of a bunch of disaffected, idealistic young folk engaging in an activity they consider more rewarding than, say, selling kebabs in some western dystopian urban sink estate.

    Best thing to do is to find them, prosecute them and incarcerate them for life in a supermax prison. Anyone suspected of involvement in any extremism should all have their passports impounded before they travel.

    Otherwise, just ignore them.
    Last edited by Seekingasylum; 08-01-2015 at 11:18 AM.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by taxexile View Post
    What you seem to be promoting is that its those who are most prepared to use violence that should be the arbiters as to what we can and cannot do in our society... that we should appease them.
    that is exactly what he seems to be promoting, and exactly why he is so wrong.

    jihadists kill, and they do not need provocation to do so. their ultimate aim is to rid the world of all unbelievers and for the world to be a caliphate, and they are in no hurry to achieve their aim.

    if we allow them to have their way by allowing them to dictate to us, then the world will indeed be dragged back to the stone age.
    Would that be a Sunni or Shi'ite Caliphate?
    Most Arab opposition parties tend to include fundamentalists simply as a means of broadening the base against the regime they hope to overthrow. Just because a few witter on about Paradise and a world of Islam doesn't necessarily mean the entire Muslim world supports them. That's just silly.
    Cloistered in Hua Hin seems to be stoking those fires of indignation, somewhat. Is it the weather down there?

  15. #65
    Thailand Expat Boon Mee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taxexile View Post
    What you seem to be promoting is that its those who are most prepared to use violence that should be the arbiters as to what we can and cannot do in our society... that we should appease them.
    that is exactly what he seems to be promoting, and exactly why he is so wrong.

    jihadists kill, and they do not need provocation to do so. their ultimate aim is to rid the world of all unbelievers and for the world to be a caliphate, and they are in no hurry to achieve their aim.

    if we allow them to have their way by allowing them to dictate to us, then the world will indeed be dragged back to the stone age.
    Indeed.

    What he doesn't understand is his attitude plays a major roll in the "Problem"

    Operative word for the day: Dhimmitude

    "Dhimmi literally means “protected person,” and the term was originally applied to non-Muslims who capitulated willingly to Islamic expansionism between 638 and 1683, and who lived in Muslim countries as craven second-class citizens. A bit like the French in World War Two."

    And I'd add the Quislings in Norway

    Dhimmitude: 12 signs you're part of the problem

  16. #66
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    1) The killers will be more likely shot. Good riddance.
    If jailed, then a long term misery for them, and upon release, they will rither re-offend, get killed or likely both.
    2) The death of the journalists is making westerners more anti-Islam than before.
    3) Survivors of C. Hebdo et al and other artists and writers will be picking up the baton where C. Hebdo just dropped it.

    Islamic migration into Europe is going to lessen as the Europopulace takes up the cudgel against the rag-heads, if their governments don't.

    What will occur is a division between the bleeding heart pink-tights PC brigade and those who're sick to death of living with that medieval crew called Muslim.

    The, the Euro authorities will have a major problem.

    They know that, so in order to avoid the problems of a divided ethnic national populace (extreme right Vs extreme left), they're gonna start a clamp-down on unlawful immigration, unlawful employment and rabble-rousing by both ragheads and their supporters and the average joe blow of Europe, who simply don't want anything to do with religion, let alone Islam and its insanity.

  17. #67
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    What a load of pompous guff from members hiding resolutely behind their anonymouns handles - prattling on about free speech that they wouldn't dare to practice personally, under their own names.

    The murderers will be jailed according to western law, perhaps they will be shot in crossfire and die with a smile on their face as presumed martyrs. If anyone wants to go back to the west and act as an agent promoting harder line policies, they are at liberty to do so.

    The bottom line is that they won't put their head over the parapet, and the west won't change its liberal ways and the deaths of these writers and cartoonists are collateral damage for the preservation of western tolerance and expresssion. I don't have any view on whether the journalists are heroes or not.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seekingasylum View Post
    Oh ENT, give it a rest.

    They're just criminals and all one can do in a Western liberalised democracy is to punish them.

    It isn't a doctrinal war,
    Don't talk rubbish.

    What the hell is Islam but a doctrine?

    And a war it is, as declared by IS and Al Quaeda, frequently.

    Those hoods aren't 'just criminals', they're insane militant religious extremists dedicated to the destruction of western values.

  19. #69
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    Err, Islam is a religion. Most practitioners just observe their rites and then pop off to work whilst their women do a spot of shopping and their children go to school.

    You really are quite neurotic, ENT.

  20. #70
    Thailand Expat Boon Mee's Avatar
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    ^
    Negative. Islam is a cult - full stop...

    Yeah, well, I like the Churchill quote:

    "An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last."

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Ghost Of The Moog View Post
    What a load of pompous guff from members hiding resolutely behind their anonymouns handles - prattling on about free speech that they wouldn't dare to practice personally.

    The murderers will be jailed according to western law. If anyone wants to go back to the west and act as an agent promoting harder line policies, they are at liberty to do so.

    The bottom line is that they won't put their head over the parapet, and the west won't change its liberal ways.
    I don't see any heroics or out front revelations from you either Moog, anonymity is your prerogative too, so pot kettle black situation there pal.

    The west will change, there'll be a hardening of attitudes tpwards Islam, and hopefully the destruction of that horror religion eventually.

    It won't be accomplished by Euros alone, but in conjunction with other countries, specifically China and India, who've also had similar problems with Muslim expansionism.

    The whole deal ain't gonna blow over, it's gonna get more intense.

    Fight back, or go down under Islam.

    It's a choice, and the only one available now as kindness, charity and humane treatment of Muslims in Europe has been rewarded by the ragheads biting the hands that fed them.
    Last edited by ENT; 08-01-2015 at 11:45 AM.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boon Mee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by charleyboy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Ghost Of The Moog
    An anti-Catholic pampheteer would be burnt at the stake by them
    Today?
    Asked back in Post #50.

    Never received a clear answer...

    Answered in Post 54.

    Try to read the entire thread, rather than just the posts that confirm your pre-existing biases.


    Quote Originally Posted by ENT View Post

    I don't see any heroics or out front revelations from you either Moog, anonymity is your prerogative too, so pot kettle black situation there pal.

    .
    As a journalist I write under my own byline. And I take the risks of being sued if I defame anyone.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Ghost Of The Moog
    What a load of pompous guff from members hiding resolutely behind their anonymouns handles - prattling on about free speech that they wouldn't dare to practice personally, under their own names.
    I doubt this is true. When working in Thailand, I spoke freely and openly and regularly about every subject; people who try to close down discourse are the minority and are the ones who should be highlighted as dangerous. The same when I worked in Oman, I spoke openly and honestly, addressing issues that can cause pressure cooker style explosions if left unaddressed. The only people who want to close down discourse and cite/propagate 'taboos' are those who seek power and money through lies and deception - it is a fundamental duty of folks who choose to work in fields such as education and journalism to uphold these duties; it's shameful not to do so...
    Cycling should be banned!!!

  24. #74
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    Here are people, just like Christians, Jews and Scientologists, who believe in stupid fcuking things that cannot be demonstrated. Things for which they have no evidence at all. Why would we accord them rights over and above people who believe other stupid unproven things? If I decided that everyone who criticized the O Reilly's should die, what would happen? That’s right — you’d laugh at me, and quite properly so.

    If scientists decided to murder everyone who questioned General Relativity, where would we be? That’s right — we’d be back in the bloody Dark Ages, which is precisely where this insane Muslim obsession with killing your enemies is leading us. Or to be more precise, it’s where these fcuking mullahs are dragging us, since they’ve never left the Dark Ages.

    Offence is never given. We do what we do and we wait to see what people make of it.

    Offence is taken. Being offended is a deliberate, positive action, and the more willing you are to be offended, the more offence you’ll find in the world.

    That’s why we can’t start to define things as being intrinsically offensive in and of themselves. If we start doing that, we’ll hand a veto to every lunatic nutcase, crackpot and extremist on the planet who’s out there waiting to be offended. We can’t let the lunatics decide what’s acceptable, unless we all want to live in an asylum. Unless we want all our standards to be decided by homicidal fcuking lunatics.

    And anyway, so what if I disrespect this Prophet guy. Would we tolerate Scientologists issuing threats against everyone who laughed at L Ron Hubbard? Would we be happy if the Moonies murdered people who ridiculed the ludicrous Reverend Moon?

    Why would people not ridicule a supposed man who had sex with a nine-year-old and still claimed to be the moral leader of an entire nutcase movement?

    Come on. Let’s have some sanity here.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humbert View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Ghost Of The Moog
    There have been long periods of history when Catholics were not at all lenient on heretics.
    An anti-Catholic pampheteer would be burnt at the stake by them
    Yes, let's go back to the 14th century for an example.

    You can find current examples of Christian violent extremism but nothing coming close to the scale of murder and terrorism that is spawned and tolerated in Islamic communities.
    Moog is trolling again...

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