Are you saying that Syrians and Iraqis are not Arabs?Quote:
Originally Posted by thaimeme
That because they're not Arab.Quote:
Originally Posted by wasabi
Nor are any of their immediate neighbors - Iraqis, Iranians, Turks, Syrians, or Armenians.
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Are you saying that Syrians and Iraqis are not Arabs?Quote:
Originally Posted by thaimemeThat because they're not Arab.Quote:
Originally Posted by wasabi
Nor are any of their immediate neighbors - Iraqis, Iranians, Turks, Syrians, or Armenians.
Speaking Arabic as a native language does not make you Arab.Quote:
Originally Posted by NevernaAre you saying that Syrians and Iraqis are not Arabs?Quote:
Originally Posted by thaimemeThat because they're not Arab.Quote:
Originally Posted by wasabi
Nor are any of their immediate neighbors - Iraqis, Iranians, Turks, Syrians, or Armenians.
This certainly applies throughout the Arabic speaking world.
Bit like speaking English, innit?Quote:
Originally Posted by thaimeme
I hear there is lots of oil in Afganistan. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by sabang
Indeed so...Quote:
Originally Posted by sabang
Very comparable in a slight manner.
Of course not, but you have not answered the question. Do you think that (generally) Syrians and Iraqis are not Arab? I am sure most Iraqis and Syrians do. The Syrians even entered a union with Egypt and called themselves the United Arab Republic. Iraq and Syria are also members of the League of Arab states (aka the Arab League). Pretty cheeky of them if they are not Arab! It all boils down to your definition of "Arab". Perhaps you would like to share your definition.Quote:
Originally Posted by thaimemeSpeaking Arabic as a native language does not make you Arab.Quote:
Originally Posted by NevernaAre you saying that Syrians and Iraqis are not Arabs?Quote:
Originally Posted by thaimemeThat because they're not Arab.Quote:
Originally Posted by wasabi
Nor are any of their immediate neighbors - Iraqis, Iranians, Turks, Syrians, or Armenians.
This certainly applies throughout the Arabic speaking world.
Rather weak and reaching....as those in question are still not Arabs.Quote:
Originally Posted by NevernaOf course not, but you have not answered the question. Do you think that (generally) Syrians and Iraqis are not Arab? I am sure most Iraqis and Syrians do. The Syrians even entered a union with Egypt and called themselves the United Arab Republic. Iraq and Syria are also members of the League of Arab states (aka the Arab League). Pretty cheeky of them if they are not Arab! It all boils down to your definition of "Arab". Perhaps you would like to share your definition.Quote:
Originally Posted by thaimemeSpeaking Arabic as a native language does not make you Arab.Quote:
Originally Posted by NevernaAre you saying that Syrians and Iraqis are not Arabs?Quote:
Originally Posted by thaimemeThat because they're not Arab.Quote:
Originally Posted by wasabi
Nor are any of their immediate neighbors - Iraqis, Iranians, Turks, Syrians, or Armenians.
This certainly applies throughout the Arabic speaking world.
So who, in your opinion, are "Arabs"?Quote:
Originally Posted by thaimemeRather weak and reaching....as those in question are still not Arabs.Quote:
Originally Posted by NevernaOf course not, but you have not answered the question. Do you think that (generally) Syrians and Iraqis are not Arab? I am sure most Iraqis and Syrians do. The Syrians even entered a union with Egypt and called themselves the United Arab Republic. Iraq and Syria are also members of the League of Arab states (aka the Arab League). Pretty cheeky of them if they are not Arab! It all boils down to your definition of "Arab". Perhaps you would like to share your definition.Quote:
Originally Posted by thaimemeSpeaking Arabic as a native language does not make you Arab.Quote:
Originally Posted by NevernaAre you saying that Syrians and Iraqis are not Arabs?Quote:
Originally Posted by thaimeme
This certainly applies throughout the Arabic speaking world.
Heroin, there's lots of Heroin in Afghanistan (which strangely the allied forces tip toe round while hunting "insurgents") :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by bsnub
Air America anyone?
:)
Access or containment of such in surrounding countries was once thought to be a useful strategyQuote:
Originally Posted by bsnub
And you might not be too far off the track, my friend.Quote:
Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier
As it's all about business first.
Nothing more, nothing less.
So Sad. So True.Quote:
Originally Posted by thaimeme
The Israelis have joined the European Qualifiers; cheeky buggers... :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Neverna
I knew a couple of Syrians, they didn't seem to like the Arabs much; though they do all seem to hate each other around that region so that's no measure. 'Arab Identity' is multifaceted and disparate at times, I'd suggest; they will all join together or all separate depending on the motivation on the table at the time...
Yes I have noticed this, the English speakers from the Middle East all seem to claim that they are not Arab.
From aol.com
Biden: We'll follow terrorists to 'gates of hell'
Sep 3rd 2014 5:15PM 2024
By DAVID SHARP
KITTERY, Maine (AP) - Vice President Joe Biden on Wednesday said America will follow the terrorists who posted videos showing the beheading of two journalists "to the gates of hell."
Speaking at the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard, Biden said the Islamic State militant group responsible for beheading James Foley and Steven Sotloff won't intimidate the United States.
"The American people are so much stronger, so much more resolved than any enemy can fully understand," Biden said. "As a nation, we're united. And when people harm Americans, we don't retreat, we don't forget."
A videotape showing Sotloff's murder was broadcast Tuesday, two weeks after the same group released a video showing Foley's killing. Foley was from New Hampshire and Sotloff attended school there, bringing their killings close to home at the shipyard situated on an island in a river that runs between Maine and New Hampshire.
"We take care of those who are grieving and when that's finished, they should know we will follow them to the gates of hell until they are brought to justice," Biden said. "Because hell is where they'll reside."
Biden's used "gates of hell" before, invoking it in an October 2012 vice presidential debate when talking about the killing of Osama bin Laden.
The vice president visited the shipyard to see the results of an agreement between labor and management that promotes collaboration and efficiency.
"This is what industry should do across the board," Biden said while visiting with workers in a training area that included a full-size mock-up of part of a hull from a Los Angeles-class submarine.
Joining Biden at the shipyard were Sen. Jeanne Shaheen and Rep. Carol Shea-Porter of New Hampshire, along with Reps. Chellie Pingree and Mike Michaud of Maine. Shaheen, Shea-Porter and Pingree are up for re-election. Michaud is running for governor in Maine.
Biden is a potential 2016 Democratic candidate for president and trips to the shipyard have become a popular stop for those seeking their party's nomination.
After the shipyard visit, Biden and Shea-Porter made an unannounced visit to the Old Ferry Landing restaurant in nearby Portsmouth, New Hampshire, startling lunchgoers, who broke into applause. He snagged a young woman's cellphone and took a picture with her, then kissed a baby. The two later had ice cream, and posed for more photos.
The 214-year-old Navy yard that repairs and overhauls nuclear submarines in Kittery, Maine, has survived three reviews from the Base Closure and Realignment Commission, including the most recent in 2005. The Defense Department has pressed for another round but has been rebuffed by Congress.
Shaheen said the congressional delegation will stand in the way of any attempts to shut down the facility, which employs about 6,000 people and which she described as an economic engine for Maine and New Hampshire.
Paul O'Connor, a union leader who invited the vice president to visit the shipyard, said he was glad Biden came to see innovations that he said could be carried through other parts of the government.
"We've given the vice president a glimpse of what's going on at the shipyard. We just scratched the surface," he said.
Biden On Islamic State: 'Hell Is Where They Will Reside'
Invent [or create] the terrorists to perpetuate the paradigm.Quote:
Originally Posted by bowie
It's what they do.
The terrorists will "reside in hell". I'm sure the jihadis will laugh at that as they believe they will be going straight to heaven wen they die. Whatever really happens after one dies, it's what you believe before that moment that counts. Makes a good soundbite, though.
AOL: Sep 5th 2014 3:31PM
NATO allies agree to take on Islamic State threat
By LOLITA C. BALDOR
NEWPORT, Wales (AP) - The U.S. and 10 of its key allies agreed Friday that the Islamic State group is a significant threat to NATO countries and that they will take on the militants by squeezing their financial resources and going after them with military might.
With the Islamic State militants spreading across eastern Syria and northern and western Iraq, President Barack Obama noted that the moderate Syrian rebels fighting both the group and the government of Bashar Assad are "outgunned and outmanned." In addition to the action pledged by fellow NATO leaders, he pressed Arab allies to reject the "nihilism" projected by the group.
The new NATO coalition will be able to mount a sustained effort to push back the militants, Obama said. The U.S. secretaries of State and Defense, meeting with their counterparts at the international gathering, insisted the Western nations build a plan by the time the U.N. General Assembly meets this month.
"I did not get any resistance or pushback to the basic notion that we have a critical role to play in rolling back this savage organization that is causing so much chaos in the region and is harming so many people and poses a long-term threat to the safety and security of NATO members," Obama said at the summit conclusion. "So there's great conviction that we have to act, as part of the international community, to degrade and ultimately destroy ISIL, and that was extremely encouraging."
Laying out a strategy for Iraq, Obama hinted at a broader military campaign, likening it to the way U.S. forces pushed back al-Qaida along Pakistan's border with Afghanistan, taking out the group's leadership, shrinking its territory and pounding at its militant followers. To do that, the U.S. used persistent airstrikes, usually by CIA drones.
So far, U.S. airstrikes in Iraq have been largely limited to helping Kurdish forces and protecting refugees. But Obama has set a goal of dismantling and destroying the Islamic State, and said Friday that the U.S. will continue to hunt down the militants just as it did with al-Qaida and with al-Shabab in Somalia.
Secretary of State John Kerry heads to the Middle East next week, and he expects to expand the coalition beyond Western nations.
Said Obama: "I think it is absolutely critical that we have Arab states and specifically Sunni-majority states that are rejecting the kind of extremist nihilism that we're seeing out of ISIL, that say that is not what Islam is about and are prepared to join us actively in the fight."
The Islamic State group espouses a radical form of Sunni Islam and initially invaded Iraq to fight its Shiite government.
"What we can accomplish is to dismantle this network, this force that has claimed to control this much territory, so that they can't do us harm," Obama said. He added that U.S. ground troops in Syria are not needed to accomplish the goal, but instead can work with moderate partners on the ground in the country.
"They have been, to some degree, outgunned and outmanned. And that's why it's important for us to work with our friends and allies to support them more effectively," Obama said.
In a meeting with the foreign and defense ministers from the coalition countries, Kerry said leaders need a clear idea about what each country will contribute to the fight. And, while noting that many won't be willing to engage in military strikes, he said they can instead provide intelligence, equipment, ammunition or weapons.
"We very much hope that people will be as declarative as some of our friends around the table have been in order to be clear about what they're willing to commit, because we must be able to have a plan together by the time we come to (the United Nations General Assembly)," said Kerry. "We need to have this coalesce."
Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel, sitting alongside Kerry, said the group forms a loose coalition that will be needed to face the insurgent challenge. He said the group can then be expanded. Along with the United States, the coalition comprises the United Kingdom, France, Australia, Germany, Canada, Turkey, Italy, Poland and Denmark.
Later, French President Francois Hollande said France was discussing with allies what type of action might be taken. "France is ready to act, but once the political accord is there and in respect to international law," Hollande said.
A senior Obama administration official said Thursday that the U.S. wanted to establish a credible ground force in Syria by training more moderate rebels before taking military action there. A $500 million request is pending in Congress.
One prong of a Western coalition approach would be for the nations' law enforcement and intelligence agencies to work together to go after the Islamic State's financing - both in banks and more informal funding networks. But as long as the Islamic State has access to millions of dollars a month in oil revenue, it will remain well-funded, U.S. intelligence officials say.
NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen said NATO has agreed to help coordinate assistance to Iraq. And he said NATO would consider putting together a mission to train and increase the capabilities of the Iraqi forces. NATO did training during the Iraq war.
NATO also agreed to increase cooperation among nations on sharing information about foreign fighters. A number of nations, including the U.S., have noted that radicalized citizens have been traveling to Syria and Iraq to fight, raising alarms that they could return to their home countries and launch attacks.
Denmark's Foreign Minister Martin Lidegaard said the effort against the militants "is not only about a military effort, it is also about stopping the financial contributions to ISIS, to coordinate intelligence, it is about stopping foreign fighters, young people from our own societies. It is decisive that we get more countries along."
Yet another crusader coalition sending cannon fodder to the never ending fight against terrorism whilst funding today's good terrorists. Keeps the US MIC happy, nobody else.
Transcript: President Obama
President Obama delivered the following remarks at the White House on Sept. 10 outlining his strategy to defeat Islamic State militants in Iraq and Syria. Transcript courtesy of Federal News Service.
PRESIDENT OBAMA: My fellow Americans, tonight I want to speak to you about what the United States will do with our friends and allies to degrade and ultimately destroy the terrorist group known as ISIL.
As commander in chief, my highest priority is the security of the American people. Over the last several years, we have consistently taken the fight to terrorists who threaten our country. We took out Osama bin Laden and much of al-Qaida’s leadership in Afghanistan and Pakistan. We’ve targeted al-Qaida’s affiliate in Yemen and recently eliminated the top commander of its affiliate in Somalia. We’ve done so while bringing more than 140,000 American troops home from Iraq and drawing down our forces in Afghanistan, where our combat mission will end later this year. Thanks to our military and counterterrorism professionals, America is safer.
Still, we continue to face a terrorist threat. We can’t erase every trace of evil from the world and small groups of killers have the capacity to do great harm. That was the case before 9/11, and that remains true today. And that’s why we must remain vigilant as threats emerge. At this moment the greatest threats come from the Middle East and North Africa, where radical groups exploit grievances for their own gain. And one of those groups is ISIL -- which calls itself the Islamic State.
Now let’s make two things clear: ISIL is not Islamic. No religion condones the killing of innocents, and the vast majority of ISIL’s victims have been Muslim. And ISIL is certainly not a state. It was formerly al-Qaida’s affiliate in Iraq and has taken advantage of sectarian strife and Syria’s civil war to gain territory on both sides of the Iraq-Syrian border. It is recognized by no government nor by the people it subjugates. ISIL is a terrorist organization, pure and simple. And it has no vision other than the slaughter of all who stand in its way.
In a region that has known so much bloodshed, these terrorists are unique in their brutality. They execute captured prisoners. They kill children. They enslave, rape and force women into marriage. They threatened a religious minority with genocide. And in acts of barbarism, they took the lives of two American journalists -- Jim Foley and Steven Sotloff.
So ISIL poses a threat to the people of Iraq and Syria and the broader Middle East, including American citizens, personnel and facilities. If left unchecked, these terrorists could pose a growing threat beyond that region, including to the United States. While we have not yet detected specific plotting against our homeland, ISIL leaders have threatened America and our allies. Our intelligence community believes that thousands of foreigners, including Europeans and some Americans, have joined them in Syria and Iraq. Trained and battle-hardened, these fighters could try to return to their home countries and carry out deadly attacks.
I know many Americans are concerned about these threats. Tonight I want you to know that the United States of America is meeting them with strength and resolve. Last month I ordered our military to take targeted action against ISIL to stop its advances. Since then we’ve conducted more than 150 successful airstrikes in Iraq. These strikes have protected American personnel and facilities, killed ISIL fighters, destroyed weapons and given space for Iraqi and Kurdish forces to reclaim key territory. These strikes have also helped save the lives of thousands of innocent men, women and children.
But this is not our fight alone. American power can make a decisive difference, but we cannot do for Iraqis what they must do for themselves, nor can we take the place of Arab partners in securing their region. That’s why I’ve insisted that additional U.S. action depended upon Iraqis forming an inclusive government, which they have now done in recent days.
So tonight, with a new Iraqi government in place, and following consultations with allies abroad and Congress at home, I can announce that America will lead a broad coalition to roll back this terrorist threat. Our objective is clear: We will degrade and ultimately destroy ISIL through a comprehensive and sustained counterterrorism strategy.
First, we will conduct a systematic campaign of airstrikes against these terrorists. Working with the Iraqi government, we will expand our efforts beyond protecting our own people and humanitarian missions so that we’re hitting ISIL targets as Iraqi forces go on offense. Moreover, I have made it clear that we will hunt down terrorists who threaten our country, wherever they are. That means I will not hesitate to take action against ISIL in Syria as well as Iraq. This is a core principle of my presidency: If you threaten America, you will find no safe haven.
Second, we will increase our support to forces fighting these terrorists on the ground. In June, I deployed several hundred American service members to Iraq to assess how we can best support Iraqi security forces. Now that those teams have completed their work and Iraq has formed a government, we will send an additional 475 service members to Iraq. As I have said before, these American forces will not have a combat mission. We will not get dragged into another ground war in Iraq. But they are needed to support Iraqi and Kurdish forces with training, intelligence and equipment. We’ll also support Iraq’s efforts to stand up national guard units to help Sunni communities secure their own freedom from ISIL control.
Across the border in Syria, we have ramped up our military assistance to the Syrian opposition. Tonight, I again call on Congress, again, to give us additional authorities and resources to train and equip these fighters. In the fight against ISIL, we cannot rely on an Assad regime that terrorizes its own people -- a regime that will never regain the legitimacy it has lost. Instead, we must strengthen the opposition as the best counterweight to extremists like ISIL, while pursuing the political solution necessary to solve Syria’s crisis once and for all.
Third, we will continue to draw on our substantial counterterrorism capabilities to prevent ISIL attacks. Working with our partners, we will redouble our efforts to cut off its funding, improve our intelligence, strengthen our defenses, counter its warped ideology, and stem the flow of foreign fighters into and out of the Middle East. And in two weeks, I will chair a meeting of the U.N. Security Council to further mobilize the international community around this effort.
Fourth, we will continue to provide humanitarian assistance to innocent civilians who’ve been displaced by this terrorist organization. This includes Sunni and Shia Muslims who are at grave risk, as well as tens of thousands of Christians and other religious minorities. We cannot allow these communities to be driven from their ancient homelands.
So this is our strategy. And in each of these four parts of our strategy, America will be joined by a broad coalition of partners. Already, allies are flying planes with us over Iraq, sending arms and assistance to Iraqi security forces and the Syrian opposition, sharing intelligence and providing billions of dollars in humanitarian aid. Secretary Kerry was in Iraq today meeting with the new government and supporting their efforts to promote unity, and in the coming days he will travel across the Middle East and Europe to enlist more partners in this fight, especially Arab nations who can help mobilize Sunni communities in Iraq and Syria to drive these terrorists from their lands. This is American leadership at its best: We stand with people who fight for their own freedom, and we rally other nations on behalf of our common security and common humanity.
My administration has also secured bipartisan support for this approach here at home. I have the authority to address the threat from ISIL. But I believe we are strongest as a nation when the president and Congress work together. So I welcome congressional support for this effort in order to show the world that Americans are united in confronting this danger.
Now, it will take time to eradicate a cancer like ISIL. And any time we take military action, there are risks involved, especially to the servicemen and -women who carry out these missions. But I want the American people to understand how this effort will be different from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. It will not involve American combat troops fighting on foreign soil. This counterterrorism campaign will be waged through a steady, relentless effort to take out ISIL wherever they exist, using our air power and our support for partners’ forces on the ground. This strategy of taking out terrorists who threaten us while supporting partners on the front lines is one that we have successfully pursued in Yemen and Somalia for years, and it is consistent with the approach I outlined earlier this year: to use force against anyone who threatens America’s core interests, but to mobilize partners wherever possible to address broader challenges to international order.
My fellow Americans, we live in a time of great change. Tomorrow marks 13 years since our country was attacked. Next week marks six years since our economy suffered its worst setback since the Great Depression. Yet despite these shocks, through the pain we felt and the grueling work required to bounce back, America is better positioned today to seize the future than any other nation on Earth.
Our technology companies and universities are unmatched. Our manufacturing and auto industries are thriving. Energy independence is closer than it’s been in decades. For all the work that remains, our businesses are in the longest uninterrupted stretch of job creation in our history. Despite all the divisions and discord within our democracy, I see the grit and determination and common goodness of the American people every single day, and that makes me more confident than ever about our country’s future.
Abroad, American leadership is the one constant in an uncertain world. It is America that has the capacity and the will to mobilize the world against terrorists. It is America that has rallied the world against Russian aggression and in support of the Ukrainian people’s right to determine their own destiny. It is America -- our scientists, our doctors, our know-how -- that can help contain and cure the outbreak of Ebola. It is America that helped remove and destroy Syria’s declared chemical weapons so that they can’t pose a threat to the Syrian people or the world again. And it is America that is helping Muslim communities around the world not just in the fight against terrorism, but in the fight for opportunity and tolerance and a more hopeful future.
America, our endless blessings bestow an enduring burden. But as Americans, we welcome our responsibility to lead. From Europe to Asia, from the far reaches of Africa to war-torn capitals of the Middle East, we stand for freedom, for justice, for dignity. These are values that have guided our nation since its founding. Tonight, I ask for your support in carrying that leadership forward. I do so as a commander in chief who could not be prouder of our men and women in uniform -- pilots who bravely fly in the face of danger above the Middle East and service members who support our partners on the ground.
When we helped prevent the massacre of civilians trapped on a distant mountain, here’s what one of them said: We owe our American friends our lives. Our children will always remember that there was someone who felt our struggle and made a long journey to protect innocent people.
That is the difference we make in the world. And our own safety, our own security depends upon our willingness to do what it takes to defend this nation and uphold the values that we stand for -- timeless ideals that will endure long after those who offer only hate and destruction have been vanquished from the Earth.
May God bless our troops and may God bless the United States of America.
You reckon a God would bless the actions of US troops and their govt? :D Fucking unreal how these maniacs genuinely believe God is on their side! The exact opposite side of the coin to the Islamic nutcases, both are dangerous religiously deluded fools.Quote:
Originally Posted by bowie
"Oh the history books tell it, they tell it so well..."
No. At the moment, the greatest threats to global stability come from North America and have done for the last 50 years, anyone with any sense can see that, clear as day. Except the Americans themselves of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by bowie
They ain't known as "The Great Satan" for nowt!
Sending arms and assistance to the Syrian opposition and possibly (it's not clear) air strikes in Syria - without the authority of the Syrian government. Will there be a UN resolution? Or will it be an illegal act of aggression against Syria? Will NATO countries be able to see their own hypocrisy? Or will they change their tune and say to Russia and the rebels, "Sorry about all our bleating over Ukraine. Carry on, sirs."?
Like the Syrian nation even exists anymore. It is hanging by a string thread just like the moderate fighters that Obummer has pledged to train.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neverna
Nation? Are you American? No offence meant, I'm just interested in your choice of words. I would call it a country or a state. I'm not sure Syria has ever been a 'nation'.Quote:
Originally Posted by bsnub