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  1. #851
    Thailand Expat OhOh's Avatar
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    You are aware they are/were part of the Ukrainian weapons armoury at the time and now.

  2. #852
    Excommunicated baldrick's Avatar
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    ^ yes - where were they manufactured ? Ekaterinburg

  3. #853
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Everyone knows Russia is to blame but Putin is a c u n t and will never let the murderers face justice.

  4. #854
    last farang standing
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    Quote Originally Posted by baldrick View Post
    maybe to you - tell us a story about crimea
    Or possibly South Ossetia

  5. #855
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    (At last, after 5 years, we will be told the truth?)

    Next week, the perpetrators of the collapse of the MH17 in the Donbas will be called - media
    June 14, 2019

    The joint investigation team for the investigation of the disaster MH17 (JIT) intends to hold a press conference on June 19, at which progress in the investigation will be presented. Reports about it "European truth" .

    Dutch prosecutors did not disclose the details, but reports that the investigators will announce the names of those responsible for knocking down the airliner.

    Earlier, the international team of investigators Bellingcat discovered the names of various Russian soldiers who may be involved in the release of the Russian Buka missile.

    JIT is the international Joint Investigation Team for the investigation of the MH17 disaster consisting of the Netherlands, Australia, Belgium, Malaysia and Ukraine. It was created more than a month after the Malaysian Airlines plane was shot down in the sky over the Donbass in July 2014. There were 298 people on board - they all died.

    The preliminary results of the accident investigation were presented by the JIT investigators in May last year. The investigation established that the MH17 aircraft was shot down over the Donbas from the “Buka” of the Russian brigade from Kursk.

    Australia and the Netherlands have called on Russia to assume state responsibility and cooperate with them to ensure justice. Russia denies accusations of involvement in the collapse of the Malaysian "Boeing" over the Donetsk region in 2014.

    Earlier, Strana wrote that the Netherlands demanded an explanation from the Malaysian prime minister, who doubted Rossi’s involvement in the crash of MH17 .

    We also reported that the SBU is looking for a Russian officer - possibly involved in the Boeing MH17 crash .

    https://strana.ua/news/206446-mezhdu...-donbasse.html

  6. #856
    Thailand Expat OhOh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    We also reported that the SBU is looking for a Russian officer
    Good luck with finding that particular officer.

    Malaysian  Airliner shot down over Ukraine-oymyakon44-jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Malaysian  Airliner shot down over Ukraine-oymyakon44-jpg  

  7. #857
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    MH17: Four charged with shooting down plane over Ukraine

    For the first time since Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down in July 2014, prosecutors have announced charges against suspects in the case.


    Three Russians and a Ukrainian have been charged with transporting a missile into the area and with murdering 298 passengers and crew.


    Passenger flight MH17 was en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur when it was shot down over conflict-hit Ukraine.
    A court case will begin in the Netherlands on 9 March 2020.


    International arrest warrants have been issued for the four men.


    The Dutch-led joint investigation team (JIT) named the men as Igor Girkin, Sergey Dubinskiy and Oleg Pulatov from Russia, as well as Ukrainian Leonid Kharchenko of involvement.


    The JIT, which seeks to try the suspects under Dutch law, previously said it had a "long list" of persons of interest and appealed again for witnesses as the investigation continues.
    p
    Who are the four suspects?

    Igor Girkin (also known as Strelkov) is a former colonel of the FSB - Russia's intelligence service, prosecutors say. He was given the minister of defence title in the rebel-held eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk. He is believed to be the highest military officer in the area who was in direct contact with the Russian Federation. In a statement Mr Girkin said: "I can only say that militia did not shoot down the Boeing."


    Sergei Dubinskiy (known as Khmuriy), who was employed by Russia's GRU military intelligence agency, was a deputy of Mr Girkin and also in regular contact with Russia, according to prosecutors.


    Oleg Pulatov, known as Giurza, is a former soldier of the Spetznaz GRU - the special forces of Russia military intelligence - and was deputy head of the intelligence service in Donetsk, the JIT said.


    Ukrainian Leonid Kharchenko has no military background but led a combat unit as a commander in Eastern Ukraine, prosecutors said.



    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48691488

  8. #858
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misskit View Post
    International arrest warrants have been issued for the four men.
    Sure they will be immediately arrested and turned over wherever they may be.

  9. #859
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    What a surprise.
    Similarly surprisingly, however much faster, in less than one year, the UN discovered who is behind the Kashoggi murder:

    ‘Credible evidence’ Saudi crown prince liable for Khashoggi killing – UN report
    Mohammed bin Salman should be investigated over journalist’s murder, says report

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ence-un-report

  10. #860
    Thailand Expat OhOh's Avatar
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    Some may thing that it is "highly likely" the evidences was concocted by an MI6 agent..

    It wouldn't be the first time. Maybe they are safe for a couple of years before the "evidence" is denounced as fraudulent.

    I suspect their planned ski trip to Canada's Lake Louise is off for the time being.
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

  11. #861
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    Who is so naive to think that after five years of "investigation" they will say sorry we have made mistake, it's not so as we have claimed from the beginning...

  12. #862
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    Sure they will be immediately arrested and turned over wherever they may be.
    Vlad will protect his fellow murderers as usual.

  13. #863
    Thailand Expat OhOh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    fellow murderers
    Yet to be proven.

    Amnesty will be offered and the charge modified to, "Crushing baby green shoots, by parking a vehicle in a cornfield".

    If they reveal how to create a "Klingon Cloaking Device" to enable launchers to disappear at on location and appear 100s km/lys away.
    Last edited by OhOh; 20-06-2019 at 10:33 AM.

  14. #864
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    MH17 Evidence-Tampering Exposed: Cover-Ups, Hiding Records, Witness Misreporting, & FBI Seizures

    A new documentary from Max van der Werff, the leading independent investigator of the Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 disaster, has revealed breakthrough evidence of tampering and forging of prosecution materials; suppression of Ukrainian Air Force radar tapes; and lying by the Dutch, Ukrainian, US and Australian governments. An attempt by agents of the US Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) to take possession of the black boxes of the downed aircraft is also revealed by a Malaysian National Security Council official for the first time.

    The sources of the breakthrough are Malaysian - Prime Minister of Malaysia Mohamad Mahathir; Colonel Mohamad Sakri, the officer in charge of the MH17 investigation for the Prime Minister’s Department and Malaysia’s National Security Council following the crash on July 17, 2014; and a forensic analysis by Malaysia’s OG IT Forensic Services of Ukrainian Secret Service (SBU) telephone tapes which Dutch prosecutors have announced as genuine.

    The 298 casualties of MH17 included 192 Dutch; 44 Malaysians; 27 Australians; 15 Indonesians. The nationality counts vary because the airline manifest does not identify dual nationals of Australia, the UK, and the US.

    The new film throws the full weight of the Malaysian Government, one of the five members of the Joint Investigation Team (JIT), against the published findings and the recent indictment of Russian suspects reported by the Dutch officials in charge of the JIT; in addition to Malaysia and The Netherlands, the members of the JIT are Australia, Ukraine and Belgium. Malaysia’s exclusion from the JIT at the outset, and Belgium’s inclusion (4 Belgian nationals were listed on the MH17 passenger manifest), have never been explained.

    The film reveals the Malaysian Government’s evidence for judging the JIT’s witness testimony, photographs, video clips, and telephone tapes to have been manipulated by the Ukrainian Security Service (SBU), and to be inadmissible in a criminal prosecution in a Malaysian or other national or international court.

    For the first time also, the Malaysian Government reveals how it got in the way of attempts the US was organizing during the first week after the crash to launch a NATO military attack on eastern Ukraine. The cover story for that was to rescue the plane, passenger bodies, and evidence of what had caused the crash. In fact, the operation was aimed at defeating the separatist movements in the Donbass, and to move against Russian-held Crimea.

    The new film reveals that a secret Malaysian military operation took custody of the MH17 black boxes on July 22, preventing the US and Ukraine from seizing them. The Malaysian operation, revealed in the film by the Malaysian Army colonel who led it, eliminated the evidence for the camouflage story, reinforcing the German Government’s opposition to the armed attack, and forcing the Dutch to call off the invasion on July 27.

    The 28-minute documentary by Max van der Werff and Yana Yerlashova has just been released. Yerlashova was the film director and co-producer with van der Werff and Ahmed Rifazal. Vitaly Biryaukov directed the photography. Watch it in full here.

    MH17 - CALL FOR JUSTICE



    Read more
    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...N620FFbPF1BIZw

  15. #865
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    Russia and the Netherlands quietly discussed the downed Boeing

    Moscow and Amsterdam are in contact with each other over the crash of the Boeing in the Donbass in 2014. About this, the Ambassador of the Netherlands to Russia Rene Jones-Bos told Interfax .

    According to her, the parties are currently interacting and deciding the issue of holding full-fledged consultations on the downed aircraft. Jones-Bos noted that the Netherlands "is in contact with Russian stakeholders who are also addressing this issue." At the same time, “the parties do not share information with the outside world,” she added.

    In July, a private investigator from Germany Josef Resch said that the Netherlands had refused to take into account new information about the crash "Boeing".

    The Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777, flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, crashed in the Donetsk region on July 17, 2014. All 298 people on board died. An international investigation concluded that the plane was shot down by a Buk missile, and announced the names of four suspects, including three Russians and a Ukrainian. A trial in this case is expected in the spring of 2020.

    The Russian Foreign Ministry called the accusations “absolutely unfounded” and emphasized that the investigation team did not provide any concrete evidence of Russian involvement in the disaster.

    There are examples in history of compensating victims without a guilty plea. This order is called ex gratia (literally “out of grace”).

    https://lenta.ru/news/2019/08/15/contacts

  16. #866
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    Better later, than never: Members of Dutch Parliament urge to investigate Ukraine's role in #MH17 disaster. (Ukrainian source)
    https://twitter.com/VeraVanHorne/sta...09199747436544

  17. #867
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    DUTCH PARLIAMENT CALLS FOR INVESTIGATION INTO UKRAINE’S INVOLVEMENT IN MH17 INCIDENT
    After years of lies and propaganda, European officials finally started asking obvious and logical questions about the MH17 tragedy.

    The Dutch parliament requests an investigation into the role Ukraine played in the MH17 incident in 2014. The Tweede Kamer, the lower house of Parliament, specifically wants a look into why the airspace above eastern Ukraine wasn’t closed despite there being fighting in the area.

    A motion filed by CDA and SP to that extent received the support of all parties that attended a debate on the matter.

    According to CDA parliamentarian Chris van Dam, this investigation must be launched as soon as possible.

    “Memories are fading, data is being lost”, he said. “It’s about insight for the bereaved, knowing if something could have been prevented, understanding what happened.”

    Minister of Foreign Affairs Stef Blok showed reluctance towards an investigation, possibly because it would go counter to the narrative of simply blaming Russia and the Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics.

    “We don’t see any reason for it legally”, he said in the Kamer. An investigation will not be easy, because it will also need Russian cooperation, he said. “It is also about their airspace.”
    He ultimately agreed in making a fact-finding investigation.

    In 2015 the Dutch Safety Board ruled that Ukraine should have closed the airspace above the conflict zone in the east of the country.

    If the airspace above eastern Ukraine had been closed, the flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur would’ve taken a different route and the 298 people on board would’ve been saved. Despite that, no investigation had been launched into why Ukraine had not undertaken any steps.

    The parliament further discussed why Ukraine released a eye-witness in the MH17 investigation – Vladimir Tsemach in the framework of the prisoner exchange. The parliament was actually astonished that it turned out Foreign Minister Stef Blok hadn’t spoken to the Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov at all regarding Tsemach. It was assumed that the Dutch government would take this up at the highest level, but in reality, only the Russian ambassador had been called and told that Tsemach needed to be available for questioning.

    Blok did not contact Moscow, or speak to his Russian counterpart at the annual UN meeting in New York. He said that “he was waiting for the right moment.” And the meeting would be held in consultation with the Public Prosecution Service and the Joint Investigation Team.

    Ahead of the prosoner swap, the Netherlands urged Ukraine to not hand over Vladimir Tsemakh to Russia. Tsemah, a citizen of Ukraine (as well as many others people handed to Russia) and a former member of an air defense unit of self-defense forces of the Donetsk People’s Republic.

    Ukrainian special forces kidnapped Tsemakh from the DPR and moved him to Kiev in June. According to initial claims by Ukraine’s State Security Service (SBU), they detained the driver of a towing truck that transported Buk missile involved in the incident with Boeing 777 of Malaysian Airlines (flight MH17) over eastern Ukraine in July 2014. However, later, the SBU was forced to denounce its own claims. Tsemakh’s air defense unit consisted of one vehicle with Zu-23 anti-aircraft gun and was not deployed near the incident site when the tragedy took place.

    Months of torturing and pressure by Ukrainian intelligence did not force Tsemakh to participate in the slapstick comedy show called ‘international investigation of the MH17 crash’. In fact, Ukraine obtained no real evidence confirming any Tsemakh links to the MH17 case because if it had, Kiev would never hand over him to Russia.

    Therefore, the official mainstream propaganda turned Tsemakh into a ‘witness’ of the MH17 tragedy.



    By this move, the Netherlands admitted that it is not a neutral side and is not interested in an objective investigation of the MH17 tragedy. The Dutch side had a lot of time to question the supposed witness. However, this was not enough and it wanted the person to remain in Ukraine, where Tsemakh would be subjected to constant physical and psychological pressure.

    Essentially, it is showing how disoriented the Dutch government is in the MH17 investigation at this point, since it’s becoming more and more of a farce. Even the Malaysian government continues asking for evidence that Russia or the Donetsk/Luhansk People’s Republics are to blame for the incident. Almost no effort is being put to propagate the narrative at this point.

    https://southfront.org/dutch-parliam...mh17-incident/

  18. #868
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    MH17 Probe Releases New Phone Calls Linking Suspects to Top Russians

    Investigators said they were making a 'new witness appeal' based on 'recorded telephone calls between the leaders of the Donetsk People's Republic, a separatist group and high-ranking Russian officials.

    The Hague: A Dutch-led probe into the shooting-down of flight MH17 over Ukraine in 2014 released new intercepted phone calls on Thursday between high-ranking Russian officials and suspects facing trial over the crash.


    Investigators said they were making a "new witness appeal" based on "recorded telephone calls between the leaders of the DPR (Donetsk People's Republic, a separatist group) and high-ranking Russian officials."





    "Ties between Russian officials and DPR leaders appear to have been much closer" than originally believed, Andy Kraag, the head of Dutch police's Criminal Investigations Division, said in a video statement.


    Investigators said in June that they were going to put three Russian nationals and one Ukrainian on trial in the Netherlands in March 2020 over the downing of the Malaysia Airlines jet, although they will likely be tried in absentia.


    The Boeing passenger plane travelling from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur was shot down by a Russian-made BUK missile in 2014 over eastern Ukraine. All 298 people on board were killed.


    Investigators said on Thursday they had now established that Russian officials and the Ukrainian rebels used secure communications that "appear to be provided by the Russian security service FSB".


    The special phones were "used by Russian top officials in their contact with the fighters", said David Nelson, senior investigations officer with the Australian Federal Police.


    "We have released recorded conversations they had about administrative, financial and military business," Nelson added.

    https://www.news18.com/news/world/mh...s-2387171.html

  19. #869
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Why are they bothering.

    We know the Russians did it.

    And they'll never admit to it.

  20. #870
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    Without a strong help from Bellingcat it would take much longer - to the intercepted telephones...


    From Stasi To Bellingcat: Former East German Agent Turns Investigative Reporter

    Bellingcat researcher Timmi Allen zooms in on Google Earth to a Berlin police station where he once worked for East Germany's feared secret police -- the Stasi.

    "Under this [station] there is a deep bunker that was supposed to be able to withstand a nuclear bomb," he says.

    Allen's manner is calm and unemotional. But this conversation at his modest Berlin home is a big deal.

    This is the first time he has given a media interview revealing details of his past working for the Stasi, which was notorious for its brutality and repressive methods.

    Speaking to RFE/RL, Allen describes pursuing “enemies of the state” from a drab office in the East German capital using index cards and a typewriter.

    It’s a stark contrast to his role at the independent investigative organization Bellingcat, in which he used cutting-edge 3D computer graphics to help expose a Russian role in shooting down Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17 over Ukraine in 2014, killing 298 people.

    “I would not like to return [to the time in the Stasi]. I was glad when it was finished,” says Allen, who graduated with a criminology degree from East Berlin’s Humboldt University before joining the state security service.

    “These are all things which are useful today -- but that is not what brought me to Bellingcat,” he says.

    “Rather, it was my personal circumstances: My daughter is badly disabled and her twin sister died," the 57-year-old continued. "And when I heard about MH17 it affected me greatly because so many children were killed. This is how I came into contact with [Bellingcat founder] Eliot [Higgins]."

    Read more
    https://www.rferl.org/a/from-stasi-t.../30240232.html

  21. #871
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    Russia will transfer data on the MH17 case to Malaysian experts
    November 21, 2019 12:39

    Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, following talks with his Malaysian counterpart Sayfuddin Abdullah, said that Russia was ready to provide Malaysia with its data on the crash in the Donbass of a Malaysian Boeing that was flying on MH17.

    “Malaysia, as a country directly involved in the MH17 flight, participated at some point in the work of the Joint Investigation Team. But, unfortunately, our accession to this process was belated. Secondly, we hope that independent evidence from those who have some kind of evidence, materials should be made public, ”said the Malaysian minister, answering a question from RT.

    He added that in Malaysia, “they are ready to listen to all the people, all those who have any information regarding this disaster.”

    In turn, Lavrov said that while Malaysia did not participate in the Joint Investigative Group, and the remaining participants in the investigation concluded an agreement among themselves that "they will coordinate any information to the public among themselves, that is, including with Ukraine."

    Lavrov noted that the record of talks by Ukrainian air traffic controllers, primary data from radars and data from satellites that the United States promised to submit has not yet been published.

    He also said that the Joint Investigative Group ignores information on the investigation, which was transmitted by the Russian side. According to him, Malaysia was not informed about what data was transmitted by Russia.

    “Therefore, we invited our Malaysian friends to send relevant experts to us, to whom our experts will reproduce everything that they showed and transferred to the Netherlands for the Joint Investigation Group. I hope that this will help our Malaysian colleagues to be more informed than other members of the investigation team would like, ”he said.

    RT led a live broadcast of the press conference .

    https://russian.rt.com/world/news/68...malaiziya-mh17

  22. #872
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    Dutch prosecutors: Russia wants to thwart MH17 investigation


    SCHIPHOL, Netherlands -- A Dutch prosecutor said Tuesday that there are “strong indications” Russia wants to undermine investigations into the downing of Malaysia Flight 17 and told judges at the trial of four suspects that many witnesses fear for their safety.


    Prosecutor Thijs Berger made the statement on the second day of the trial of three Russians and a Ukrainian charged with the murder of all 298 passengers and crew killed when a missile shot down the Amsterdam-to-Kuala Lumpur flight on July 17, 2014. The suspects weren't present.


    Prosecutors allege that a Russian Buk missile shot down the flight from an agricultural field in a region of eastern Ukraine controlled by pro-Moscow rebel forces. Russia denies any involvement in the downing.


    Prosecutors revealed that one witness in their case is a Russian volunteer with a separatist rebel group who was close to a crossroads in eastern Ukraine near where a Buk missile was fired on the day flight MH17 was downed.


    The witness, identified only as M58, said that people present at the launch site were “initially pleased because they were told that a military transport plane had been shot down. However, when the first people returned from the crash site they said that it was a civilian aircraft," prosecutor Dedy Woei-a-Tsoi said.

    MORE Dutch prosecutors: Russia wants to thwart MH17 investigation - ABC News

  23. #873
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    Ukraine did not provide primary data from radars on the MH17 disaster


    MOSCOW, Jun 9 - RIA News.

    Ukraine did not provide primary radar data on the crash of the Malaysian Boeing (flight MH17) in 2014, said Dutch prosecutor Theis Berger during a court hearing.

    "Ukraine practically did not provide primary radar data. Ukraine explained to the Dutch Security Council that no primary radar data were recorded, since the radar was not working at that moment," the prosecutor said.

    The MH17 crash trial began in the Netherlands on March 9, 2020. Four persons involved in it - Russians Girkin, Dubinsky, Pulatov and Ukrainian Kharchenko. Pulatov at trial is represented by an international group consisting of two Dutch and one Russian lawyer. The remaining suspects are tried in absentia.

    Malaysian Boeing, flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur by flight MH17, crashed on July 17, 2014 near Donetsk. Onboard were 298 people, all of them died. Kiev accused the militias of the disaster, they said they did not have the means to bring down the aircraft at such a height.

    The Joint Investigative Group (SSG), which, under the leadership of the Netherlands Prosecutor General’s Office without investigating Russia, is investigating the circumstances of the crash, previously presented interim results. The investigation claims that Boeing was shot down from the Buk anti-aircraft missile system , which belonged to the 53rd Russian anti-aircraft missile brigade from Kursk.

    According to RIA Novosti, Deputy Prosecutor General of Russia Nikolai Vinnichenko, the Russian side handed over to the Netherlands not only Russian radar data, but also documentation indicating that the Buk air defense missile that hit the Boeing belonged to Ukraine, and it was launched from the territory controlled by Kiev, however, the investigators ignored this information. At the same time, on the first day of the court hearing, the prosecution acknowledged that it had received and is studying the data of the Russian prosecutor's office.

    The Russian Foreign Ministry said that the SSG’s allegations of Russia's involvement in the crash of the Malaysian Boeing are unfounded and unfortunate, the investigation is biased and one-sided. President Vladimir Putin noted that Russia is not allowed to investigate the crash of the liner in eastern Ukraine, and Moscow can recognize the results of the investigation if it takes part in it fully. All missiles, the engine of which the Dutch commission for the investigation of the crash of MH17 demonstrated, were disposed of after 2011, the Russian Defense Ministry said. Russian presidential spokesman Dmitry Peskov has repeatedly stated that Moscow categorically rejects allegations of involvement in the crash of the Malaysian Boeing.

    Украина не предоставила первичные данные с радаров по катастрофе MH17 - РИА Новости, 09.06.2020

  24. #874
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Trial in MH17 crash to start hearing evidence

    BADHOEVEDORP, Netherlands: Dutch judges will on Monday start hearing evidence against three Russian suspects and a Ukrainian in the downing of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 over war-torn Ukraine in 2014.

    The trial formally began in March 2020 but has so far been dealing with legal arguments, mainly about the admissibility of evidence in the crash in which 298 passengers and crew were killed.

    The four suspects -- Russian nationals Oleg Pulatov, Igor Girkin and Sergei Dubinsky, and Ukrainian citizen Leonid Kharchenko -- are all being tried in absentia. Only Pulatov has legal representation.


    "The court will open the MH17 criminal trial proper and, through examining and discussing the content of the prosecution file, elucidate the key questions which it has already begun to address," the court said in a statement.


    "Was flight MH17 shot down by a BUK missile? Was a BUK missile fired from an agricultural field near Pervomaiskyi? Did the accused play a role in this?" the statement added.

    The Boeing 777 jet was travelling from Amsterdam's Schiphol airport to Kuala Lumpur when it was shot down over part of eastern Ukraine controlled by pro-Russian rebels.

    An international investigation concluded that a BUK missile that had originally come from the Russian army's 53rd Anti-Aircraft Missile Brigade based in the city of Kursk was responsible.


    All four suspects are accused of being key figures among the separatist rebels battling Kiev.

    The trial is being held in the Netherlands, in a secure courtroom near Schiphol airport, because it was the point of departure for the doomed plane, and because 196 of the victims were Dutch.

    The court said that the "hearing on the merits" will begin Monday with general topics including the investigation by the examining magistrate, followed by three more days of discussion from Tuesday to Thursday.


    The prosecution and defence will then have the chance to raise issues during hearings lasting until July 9.

    Relatives of the victims will be able to address the court in September, it said.

    The judges visited the shrapnel-pierced wreckage for the first time in May in what they described as an "emotionally loaded" day.


    Torn shreds of the front of the plane have been reconstructed on a wire cage at Gilze-Rijen air base in the Netherlands.


    "We realise that this visit to the reconstruction of MH17 as part of the official criminal process will be very emotionally loaded for relatives," presiding judge Hendrik Steenhuis said at the time.


    "This is a reconstruction of an aircraft in which their loved ones were underway to a destination that they never reached because the aircraft crashed during the flight and all on board perished."


    Pulatov, the only suspect to be represented at the trial by lawyers, said in a video played to the court in November that he had seen no sign of any missile.

    Trial in MH17 crash to start hearing evidence

  25. #875
    Thailand Expat OhOh's Avatar
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    MH17 TRIAL – DUTCH JUDGE HENDRIK STEENHUIS DISCREDITS HIMSELF AND THE TRIAL WITH FIRST MENTION IN COURT OF INADMISSIBLE AUTOPSY EVIDENCE PROVING, NONETHELESS, NO RUSSIAN BUK MISSILE

    June 8, 2021 @ 10:42 pm

    "For the first time since the Dutch Government began its prosecution of the Russian Government for the destruction of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17, and the killing of the 298 passengers and crew on board, the court has heard what the presiding judge, Hendrik Steenhuis (lead image), has described as autopsy and post-mortem evidence from the bodies recovered from the aircraft crash scene in eastern Ukraine. For the first time, Steenhuis has read out a scripted version of what he declares to be admissible evidence from the bodies, although the trial of this evidence has only just begun.

    And for the first time – without showing he has comprehended what he has revealed — Steenhuis confirms that only one piece of shrapnel identifiable with the alleged murder weapon, a Russian-made BUK missile, was discovered by the Dutch forensic teams, pathologists, policemen, prosecutors, and investigating judges who have been working on this evidence since the crash on July 17, 2014. If Steenhuis is telling the truth about this one bow-tie shaped piece of shrapnel from a missile warhead, another cube-shaped piece of shrapnel has disappeared from the cockpit bodies, plus one additional bow-tie and a cube reportedly found in the cockpit frame and photographed by the Dutch Safety Board in October 2015.

    This one piece of metal has been admitted in evidence by Steenhuis without any chain of custody protecting it from the Ukrainian Security Service (SBU) since the SBU supervised autopsies of the same bodies in Kharkiv in July 2014, before sending them to The Netherlands. That is one piece of metal out of 2,600 bow-tie shapes and another 2,600 cube shapes in the BUK missile warhead Steenhuis has now ruled to have committed the crime.

    For the Dutch judge this is beyond reasonable doubt.

    Steenhuis commenced the second day of what he is calling the trial on the merits of the Dutch indictments against three Russian officers and one Ukrainian with a detailed summary of evidence he accepts in the proceeding.


    Anglo-American practice is the reverse.

    In a British or American court of law, the judge presents his summary of the evidence he accepts at the conclusion of the trial – after the evidence has been presented, then tested by prosecutors and defence lawyers in direct and cross-examination of witnesses, experts, and the accused.


    In the MH17 trial yesterday, June 8, Steenhuis began with a 10-minute recital of autopsy and post-mortem evidence collected, he says, from the bodies of passengers and cockpit crew at a Dutch military bae after they had been flown from the Ukraine.

    Steenhuis listed the autopsy and post-mortem technologies the Dutch used, including the non-invasive CT scan and the X-ray. Invasive dissection was also employed for selected bodies of the crew, according to the judge.

    At Min 42:16 Steenhuis makes the crucial admission that the bodies had been tampered with by the Ukrainian authorities.

    According to Steenhuis, a number of bodies were subjected by the Dutch to “inspection via closer invasive investigations inter alia with those bodies that had had post-mortem examinations in Ukraine”. Steenhuis did not say how many bodies these were; what their names were and their places in the aircraft; what the Ukrainians had done in their “post-mortem examinations”; and what the special Dutch police purportedly guarding the bodies before and after the Ukrainian “post-mortems” had done to prevent the introduction of metal and the faking of forensic records.

    Liane Theurkauf has provided the only catalogue and review available in print of all autopsy and post-mortem evidence in the MH17 case, focusing particularly on the pilot, first officer and purser in the cockpit, and two crew members, including the Team B pilot captain seated in the first-class cabinet behind the cockpit.

    On June 8 Steenhuis read out his ruling that at the Hilversum military base “autopsy was [sic] performed on five members of the crew – two captains, one first officer, and two members of the cabin crew” [Min 44:38]. Steenhuis’s use of the singular tense was misleading. He implied the Hilversum autopsy on the five crew was the first autopsy for these crew members, and thus the only source of the evidence now available to the court. This is false – Steenhuis either knows it to be false, or is incapable of knowing what evidence from the bodies of the crew is available.

    In Theuerkauf’s record, a detailed log of body wounds for the cockpit crew, including shrapnel evidence, was first prepared at the Kalinin mortuary in Donetsk, which was run by officials of the Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR), including the chief of the Donetsk morgue, Dmitry Kalashnikov. Suspecting that the evidence of the cockpit crew might be falsified later, this log has been preserved and also reported publicly. It has been ignored by the Dutch prosecutors; by Steenhuis; and also by the Dutch lawyers representing the Russian defendant in court, Lieutenant Colonel (retired) Oleg Pulatov. Kalashnikov has not been interviewed by the Dutch investigating judges, nor by the defence lawyers.

    After a team of Malaysian officials met with DPR officials, and Dutch and other European officials followed, the bodies were taken by train out of the DPR and into Kiev-controlled territory. The bodies were then unloaded; removed from their body bags and identifying tags prepared by the DPR; and new procedures carried out by Ukrainian pathologists under observation by Dutch and Australian special forces. X-rays and other autopsy procedures took place before the bodies were sealed again. A Kiev government spokesman announced: “We have everything in Kharkiv, experts from international organisations and from Ukraine. They have all the facilities ready for all the forensic investigation and examination.”

    Death certificates were signed by Ukrainian officials, and later handed to the Dutch, some accompanying the bodies when they were flown from Kharkiv to Hilversum; some later.
    Theuerkauf concluded:

    “There has been no mention in the MH17 trial of the X-rays of the cockpit crew bodies taken at Kharkiv."

    This detail is crucial for two reasons. Either the X-ray pictures have been preserved by the Ukrainians and Dutch, but they fail to show the characteristic shrapnel of the alleged weapon for the attack on the aircraft, and the X-rays are being suppressed for that reason. Or else the X-ray evidence is missing, and the chain of custody for the evidence of the cockpit crew was broken at Kharkiv – a second break in the same chain.

    If the first is the truth, the Dutch prosecutors have been lying about what the evidence proves.”

    “If the second is the truth, the prosecution claims about the shrapnel evidence are legally inadmissible.”

    In his June 8 ruling Steenhuis admitted the inadmissible. He concealed the chain of custody broken in Donetsk and Kharkiv; and by Kiev pathologists, Dutch and Australian police.

    Steenhuis also endorsed evidence of one piece of bow-tie shrapnel from a warhead whose alleged detonation released 2,599 more bow-tie pieces which have disappeared entirely."


    Dances With Bears >> MH17 TRIAL – DUTCH JUDGE HENDRIK STEENHUIS DISCREDITS HIMSELF AND THE TRIAL WITH FIRST MENTION IN COURT OF INADMISSIBLE AUTOPSY EVIDENCE PROVING, NONETHELESS, NO RUSSIAN BUK MISSILE
    Last edited by OhOh; 09-06-2021 at 03:59 PM.

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