Thread: Malaysian Airliner shot down over Ukraine

Originally Posted by JetsetBkk

And where is the response from the US? Where is the POTUS?

He has his replacement in waiting, Shillery, making the comments.

MH17: Hillary Clinton says Russian-backed rebels likely shot down plane | World news | theguardian.com

But Hillary Clinton, the former US secretary of state, was more potent in her statements, saying in a television interview that indications pointed at the Russian-backed side and action was needed to "put [Vladimir] Putin on notice that he has gone too far and we are not going to stand idly by".

Clinton said in an interview with Charlie Rose on the American PBS network: "The questions I'd be asking is, number one, who could have shot it down? Who had the equipment? It's obviously an anti-aircraft missile. Who could have had the expertise to do that? Because commercial airlines are big targets, but by the time they got over that part of Ukraine they should have been high, so it takes some planning [to target such a plane].

"And the Ukrainian government has been quick to blame it on terrorists, which is their name for the Russian insurgents. And there does seem to be some growing awareness that it probably had to be Russian insurgents.

"Now, how we determine that will require some forensics, but then if there is evidence pointing in that direction, the equipment had to have come from Russia. What more the Russians may or may not have done, we don't know.

"Europeans have to be the ones to take the lead on this. It was a flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur over European territory. There should be outrage in European capitals."

Yup - exactly what was wanted. Coerce Europe into a stand off with Russia, which due to Gas, Europe has no appetite for.

Good old Sky. "Coming up, more on the missing MH17 flight".

I don't think it's missing you chumps.

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

Originally Posted by taxexile

If a plane breaks up mid-air at 30000 ft. and passengers are thrown out, do they die whilst still in the air through lack of oxygen, or when they hit the ground?

From the look of the debris I'd guess the plane didn't break up in the air and was more or less whole when it hit the ground.
Those missiles are guided by a thermal optical lens so most likely one of the engines was hit possibly breaking the wing causing the plane to go more or less straight down depending on how much control the pilots still had.
Most likely everyone was still alive all the way down. It probably took about 2-3 minutes for the plane to hit the ground. Pretty horrible to contemplate.

The Buk, or SA-11 missile system is not guided by a "thermo optic lens" that flies into engines......

It is a radar guided missile that detonates with a radar proximity fuse, it doesn't aim for a particular part of it's target. It's 70 kilo warhead creates a ball of flak which just shreds what it hits.

Originally Posted by Necron99

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

Originally Posted by taxexile

If a plane breaks up mid-air at 30000 ft. and passengers are thrown out, do they die whilst still in the air through lack of oxygen, or when they hit the ground?

From the look of the debris I'd guess the plane didn't break up in the air and was more or less whole when it hit the ground.
Those missiles are guided by a thermal optical lens so most likely one of the engines was hit possibly breaking the wing causing the plane to go more or less straight down depending on how much control the pilots still had.
Most likely everyone was still alive all the way down. It probably took about 2-3 minutes for the plane to hit the ground. Pretty horrible to contemplate.

The Buk, or SA-11 missile system is not guided by a "thermo optic lens" that flies into engines......

It is a radar guided missile that detonates with a radar proximity fuse, it doesn't aim for a particular part of it's target. It's 70 kilo warhead creates a ball of flak which just shreds what it hits.

its current design can be fitted with a combined optical tracking system with a thermal camera and a laser range-finder for passive tracking of the target

Buk missile system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And the BBC quotes an eyewitness saying that the airplane hit the ground, broke in two then caught fire.

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

Originally Posted by Necron99

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

Originally Posted by taxexile

If a plane breaks up mid-air at 30000 ft. and passengers are thrown out, do they die whilst still in the air through lack of oxygen, or when they hit the ground?

From the look of the debris I'd guess the plane didn't break up in the air and was more or less whole when it hit the ground.
Those missiles are guided by a thermal optical lens so most likely one of the engines was hit possibly breaking the wing causing the plane to go more or less straight down depending on how much control the pilots still had.
Most likely everyone was still alive all the way down. It probably took about 2-3 minutes for the plane to hit the ground. Pretty horrible to contemplate.

The Buk, or SA-11 missile system is not guided by a "thermo optic lens" that flies into engines......

It is a radar guided missile that detonates with a radar proximity fuse, it doesn't aim for a particular part of it's target. It's 70 kilo warhead creates a ball of flak which just shreds what it hits.

its current design can be fitted with a combined optical tracking system with a thermal camera and a laser range-finder for passive tracking of the target

Buk missile system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And the BBC quotes an eyewitness saying that the airplane hit the ground, broke in two then caught fire.

The passive tracking system is for the operators in the ground station, it's not on the missile, it's not a heat seeker.

The fuselage likely broke up in the air, a big chunk of it may have landed and exploded, but the naked bodies raining down on the nearby village suggest it was well in pieces before it hit the ground.

*WARNING* Don't watch it if you are squeamish.

LiveLeak.com - Ukraine: *VERY GRAPHIC* MH17 crash site- charred bodies lie among burning debris

Originally Posted by Warrior

Mr Earl, according the BBC, the debris is in a 15 square kilometer area... that sounds like a very BIG plane if it didnt break up, wouldnt you think?

BBC news last night showed plane exploding on impact with the ground - most likely was largely intact.

Originally Posted by Necron99

but the naked bodies raining down on the nearby village suggest it was well in pieces before it hit the ground.

Can you quote you source for this as that, as far as I know, wasn't mentioned on the BBC news - acknowledging I haven't seen all items?

Apparently some village reported it was raining people, pretty horrible!

But a big piece still attached to a wing and fuel tank must have been together to cause the smoking grease spot in published pics.

Originally Posted by Ronin

Originally Posted by Necron99

but the naked bodies raining down on the nearby village suggest it was well in pieces before it hit the ground.

Can you quote you source for this as that, as far as I know, wasn't mentioned on the BBC news - acknowledging I haven't seen all items?

MH17: Ukraine residents describe seeing bodies and wreckage fall from the sky | Latest News | Latest Breaking News | Daily Star. Simply The Best 7 Days A Week

Originally Posted by JetsetBkk

And where is the response from the US? Where is the POTUS?

Hint: Busy on a New York fund raiser for the Israeli/Jewish Lobby that so encases the American political scene.

Yep.....

^^ War above everything else.

Sort of sums it up.

Originally Posted by JetsetBkk

And where is the response from the US? Where is the POTUS? Hint: Busy on a New York fund raiser. POTUS? More like POS.

Last night on channel 4 news at 7pm, their flagship news spot, the main presenter was talking live to a Ukrainian minister. He was told the USPOS was live on a US channel and would be commenting on the situation. The presenter told the Ukranian minister that the USPOS was on TV. The channel cut to the live US station to see the USPOS introducing the local celebrities to the audience.

You could see the channel 4 news presenter shaking his head in disbelief. They cut back to the Ukrainian minister and carried on.

You wonder why the world ignores the US.

Sure there will be lots of press speculation and unnamed people, close to the investigation, giving stories.

Few things seem strange already, witness said, missile went straight up, smoke trail, then bang.
Why was the system placed under a civil air corridor in the first place.
Does the tracking radar [ another truck ] only pick up primary radar, not secondary radar, transponders.

Sure we have eyes, satellite, watching, a hot spot where NATO may have taken action. How long has the missile[s] been there.

Who gains most from this, US says it was a missile, others probably a missile. Jim

Originally Posted by OhOh

Originally Posted by JetsetBkk

And where is the response from the US? Where is the POTUS? Hint: Busy on a New York fund raiser. POTUS? More like POS.

Last night on channel 4 news at 7pm, their flagship news spot, the main presenter was talking live to a Ukrainian minister. He was told the USPOS was live on a US channel and would be commenting on the situation. The presenter told the Ukranian minister that the USPOS was on TV. The channel cut to the live US station to see the USPOS introducing the local celebrities to the audience.

You could see the channel 4 news presenter shaking his head in disbelief. They cut back to the Ukrainian minister and carried on.

You wonder why the world ignores the US.

What does a Malaysian jet being shot down in the Ukraine have to do with the US?

Originally Posted by Necron99

Originally Posted by Ronin

Originally Posted by Necron99

but the naked bodies raining down on the nearby village suggest it was well in pieces before it hit the ground.

Can you quote you source for this as that, as far as I know, wasn't mentioned on the BBC news - acknowledging I haven't seen all items?

MH17: Ukraine residents describe seeing bodies and wreckage fall from the sky | Latest News | Latest Breaking News | Daily Star. Simply The Best 7 Days A Week

Further reading does seem to confirm that said but I wouldn't put too much faith in the Daily Star - a notorious rag or was. Not sure of the quality now but still looks rather sensational.

Originally Posted by Necron99

What does a Malaysian jet being shot down in the Ukraine have to do with the US?

Absolutely nothing

Originally Posted by Necron99

Originally Posted by OhOh

Originally Posted by JetsetBkk

And where is the response from the US? Where is the POTUS? Hint: Busy on a New York fund raiser. POTUS? More like POS.

Last night on channel 4 news at 7pm, their flagship news spot, the main presenter was talking live to a Ukrainian minister. He was told the USPOS was live on a US channel and would be commenting on the situation. The presenter told the Ukranian minister that the USPOS was on TV. The channel cut to the live US station to see the USPOS introducing the local celebrities to the audience.

You could see the channel 4 news presenter shaking his head in disbelief. They cut back to the Ukrainian minister and carried on.

You wonder why the world ignores the US.

What does a Malaysian jet being shot down in the Ukraine have to do with the US?

American weaponry?
Largest arms dealer in the world - no one even close.

Following the trail.

Originally Posted by Necron99

What does a Malaysian jet being shot down in the Ukraine have to do with the US?

If you are aware of the catastrophic position of the Ukrainian military in the SE corner of the Ukraine a great deal. But hey no mention of the NATO handlers to stand down, no mention of the reinforcement of the Ukrainian and mercenary armies and air forces and no mention of the government forces to "return to their barracks" a la Libya.

"Statement by the Press Secretary on Malaysian Airlines Flight 17
The United States is shocked by the downing of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17, and we offer our deep condolences to all those who lost loved ones on board. We continue to seek information to determine whether there were any American citizens on board.

It is critical that there be a full, credible, and unimpeded international investigation as quickly as possible.

We urge all concerned – Russia, the pro-Russian separatists, and Ukraine – to support an immediate cease-fire in order to ensure safe and unfettered access to the crash site for international investigators and in order to facilitate the recovery of remains. "

This will be the main news story for the next week while taking the attention of another part of the globe.
This happens a lot over recent years.
tin foil hat time.

Fascinating that with the first crash nobody has a clue what happened... but immediately after this one the US is 100% sure that it was Russian sympathisers using a missile.



Yeah ok.

Originally Posted by Chittychangchang

This will be the main news story for the next week while taking the attention of another part of the globe.
This happens a lot over recent years.
tin foil hat time.

Wagging the dog works better......always has.

Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier

Fascinating that with the first crash nobody has a clue what happened... but immediately after this one the US is 100% sure that it was Russian sympathisers using a missile.



Yeah ok.

Probably because they have satellites looking at the Ukraine where there is a conflict going on and don't have any looking at Malaysia and the southern pacific where fuck all is going on.

Why do you guys always go for the most convoluted and complex answers to simple issues?