The US is definitely behind the fuckup in Ukraine
it looks like it's back to the old game for the US, supporting tyrants, Islamic extremists, and Nazis
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The US is definitely behind the fuckup in Ukraine
it looks like it's back to the old game for the US, supporting tyrants, Islamic extremists, and Nazis
Or back to the old game for the USSR, trying to grab back what it once invaded one bit at a time, more like.Quote:
Originally Posted by Butterfly
Obama has been talking to China about the Crimea !!
Has he forgotten about Tibet and how the Chinese Military took over that country.
Putin doing the same with Crimea,, using his war machine to have his wicked way.
And why do all those guys armed to the teeth, wear masks ?
Not for the cold weather otherwise Putin would see them as pussies.
Argentina tried this with the Falklands and they got well spanked.
Probably because China always backs Russia on security council resolutions and vice versa.Quote:
Originally Posted by billy the kid
He's wasting his time unless he's got something to offer them.
Certain rules were laid down after WW11
that NO country has the right the move into another country,armed
like Germany went into Poland
without going through legal process.
Either Putin backs down which seems unlikely
or something nasty is going to occur.
Did the US go through the legal process after 9/11?Quote:
Originally Posted by billy the kid
For Iraq?
For Afghanistan?
If so, their process or an international one?
Vietnam?Quote:
Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier
USSR is gone, get with the program. Are you trying to say the USSR "invaded" the Ukraine SSR? That's kind of odd, considering the USSR created the Ukraine (and Georgia, Moldova, etc.) Crimea was under the control of the Kiev Rus before the Tartars showed up and turned it into a way station for its trade in Russian slaves. The Russians took it back; the USSR stuck it onto the cobbled-together state it called the Ukraine SSR.Quote:
Originally Posted by harrybarracudaOr back to the old game for the USSR, trying to grab back what it once invaded one bit at a time, more like.Quote:
Originally Posted by Butterfly
It is mistake to equate Russia with the USSR. Crimea was gifted to the Ukraine under a Ukrainian premier. Georgia received Abkhazia similarly under a Georgian premier. Russia is decidedly capitalist now- corrupt as hell, but capitalist. The Sovs aren't coming back.
Amusing, watching this unfold.
Not that I like Putin, or wish him well. Quite the contrary.
But after decades of watching the nerdy technocrats from the EU, and to a slightly lesser extent UK and US, trying desperately to construct a world in their own image, failing miserably - a fact they are totally in denial about - they now have to deal with someone that won't go running for shelter when the say 'boo'.
Oh damn. What now?
Putin has been playing the west like a fiddle for yonks now. Easy stuff, if you realize the west mostly consists of nerdy technocrats and bullies that love stomping on the small fellas.
A world away from what it was even 50 years ago.
That happens if you weaken your society by promoting and overprotecting the weak. The weak never grow stronger and the strong grow weaker.
China, meanwhile, is increasing it's defence budget greatly, year after year.
The EU weenies are at a loss. US is blundering and blustering as usual. Maybe they'll invade South Sudan or some other leading backwater in frustration.
Meanwhile Putin ain't losing any sleep. Guaranteed.
A sad state of affairs. Go weenies. Rah rah rah.
sadly true,Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyFree
Unfortunately, this also makes it harder for the more civilized elements among Putin's opposition in Russia by increasing his popularity and enabling him to say, "See, the world is against us," a sentiment that Russians find all too easy to believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyFree
You don't get sarcasm, do you?Quote:
Originally Posted by robuzoUSSR is gone, get with the program. Are you trying to say the USSR "invaded" the Ukraine SSR? That's kind of odd, considering the USSR created the Ukraine (and Georgia, Moldova, etc.) Crimea was under the control of the Kiev Rus before the Tartars showed up and turned it into a way station for its trade in Russian slaves. The Russians took it back; the USSR stuck it onto the cobbled-together state it called the Ukraine SSR.Quote:
Originally Posted by harrybarracudaOr back to the old game for the USSR, trying to grab back what it once invaded one bit at a time, more like.Quote:
Originally Posted by Butterfly
It is mistake to equate Russia with the USSR. Crimea was gifted to the Ukraine under a Ukrainian premier. Georgia received Abkhazia similarly under a Georgian premier. Russia is decidedly capitalist now- corrupt as hell, but capitalist. The Sovs aren't coming back.
He's been playing his own people like a philharmonic orchestra since he was in the KGB plotting to take power.Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyFree
Ukraine needs 35b to survive, so who is going to pay ? certainly not Russia :rofl:
Ukraine oNWeD on their own petard,
Of course he has.Quote:
Originally Posted by harrybarracudaHe's been playing his own people like a philharmonic orchestra since he was in the KGB plotting to take power.Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyFree
Putin doesn't believe the masses have a clue. And he's right about that.
GWB and his belittling attitude can take a lot of credit for Putins general direction today.
Basically, the west doesn't like Putin because he's hell-bent on restoring Russian pride. Russian, not USSR.
There are a host of world 'leaders' a lot worse, and nobody says a word.
All of which doesn't mean I like him. It is just that the rest of the little grey men from the west make him stand out.
If they kept Crimea they could exploit the energy reserves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Butterfly
If Putin wanted to be nice, he should just take the whole bloody place.
think those legality's set down after WW2, were meant just for Europe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier
not sure though.
btw, heard that in one town or city in Crimea has 23 War Monuments or Memorials.
and be accused of stealing Ukraine ? no fucking wayQuote:
Originally Posted by harrybarracuda
the west is showing its decline, the future belongs to China and RussiaQuote:
Originally Posted by FlyFree
who said Communism was killed and left for dead ?
Sarcasm isn't usually so heavily disguised. I'll take your word for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by harrybarracudaYou don't get sarcasm, do you?Quote:
Originally Posted by robuzoUSSR is gone, get with the program. Are you trying to say the USSR "invaded" the Ukraine SSR? That's kind of odd, considering the USSR created the Ukraine (and Georgia, Moldova, etc.) Crimea was under the control of the Kiev Rus before the Tartars showed up and turned it into a way station for its trade in Russian slaves. The Russians took it back; the USSR stuck it onto the cobbled-together state it called the Ukraine SSR.Quote:
Originally Posted by harrybarracudaOr back to the old game for the USSR, trying to grab back what it once invaded one bit at a time, more like.Quote:
Originally Posted by Butterfly
It is mistake to equate Russia with the USSR. Crimea was gifted to the Ukraine under a Ukrainian premier. Georgia received Abkhazia similarly under a Georgian premier. Russia is decidedly capitalist now- corrupt as hell, but capitalist. The Sovs aren't coming back.
The EU offered USD15 billion and said it will offer 500 million Euros/USD 700million in trade incentives. Maybe the USA will fill the gap. I'm sure American tax payers will happily cough up more tax dollars for their Ukrainian friends.Quote:
Originally Posted by Butterfly
Why not? He's stealing part of it, might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb.Quote:
Originally Posted by Butterfly
What i don't understand is
How did/can Russians travel to the Crimea without a Passport.
They have always been able to do that.
If i travel to Gibraltar then i need a passport.
He isn't that nice though- having taken back Crimea, he can just sit back and let the west throw megabucks at the problem, deal with the considerable unrest from the restive east (which is 'russian'), and play apologist for the far right wing thugs that, post coup, now control the Ukrainian government. Cold War type thinking has just thrown us into another financial black hole we could well do without, and that is not even accounting for the realistic possibility of civil war in the Ukraine.Quote:
Originally Posted by harrybarracuda
No different to the EU 'schengen' arrangement really. The thing is, Crimea has always been Russian- this didn't change after it became an autonomous republic within the tacked together Ukrainian federation, what changed was the collapse and dissolution of the USSR. If Khrushchev were alive today, he would have egg on his face.Quote:
How did/can Russians travel to the Crimea without a Passport.
Stealing ? Stealing ! So what.Quote:
Originally Posted by harrybarracudaWhy not? He's stealing part of it, might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb.Quote:
Originally Posted by Butterfly
The U.S. and the NSA are stealing big data and the Russians a bit of land. Data is just as valuable as a piece of land. Both are doing this to protect their people/allies. That's at least what they say :mid: Who do I believe ? NONE.
At least with Putin I know where I'am at. With the U.S. I have a bear disguised as a lamb, who's presidents are elected in curious ways, and no one knows who is running the government.
Let's face it, the Russians have just not perfected the art of stealing, cheating,invading or taking over like the U.S. has. Its a bit like their space program (looks old fashion), but they get where they want to go.
Wtf are you on. I've been wondering for years now. Do tell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Butterfly
There is nothing Communistic (?) about either anymore. Communism was a brain-fart.
:tumbs:Quote:
Originally Posted by HermantheGermanStealing ? Stealing ! So what.Quote:
Originally Posted by harrybarracudaWhy not? He's stealing part of it, might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb.Quote:
Originally Posted by Butterfly
The U.S. and the NSA are stealing big data and the Russians a bit of land. Data is just as valuable as a piece of land. Both are doing this to protect their people/allies. That's at least what they say :mid: Who do I believe ? NONE.
At least with Putin I know where I'am at. With the U.S. I have a bear disguised as a lamb, who's presidents are elected in curious ways, and no one knows who is running the government.
Let's face it, the Russians have just not perfected the art of stealing, cheating,invading or taking over like the U.S. has. Its a bit like their space program (looks old fashion), but they get where they want to go.
Bit like their aviation program as well then (Concordski, Sukhoi, etc.).
:)
If you're from the EU you just need a valid ID card, not a passport. As the UK doesn't use ID cards a passport is considered a valid substitute.Quote:
Originally Posted by billy the kid
^ a driving licence wouldn't do then ?
No, it wouldn't. Apparently you need a 'travel document' and while an EU ID card counts as a travel document a driving license doesn't. I've got no idea why a photo license wouldn't do but that's the reason given by Gib border control.Quote:
Originally Posted by billy the kid