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  1. #1
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    US accused of spying on EU leaders

    Spying row: Merkel urges US to restore trust at EU summit





    Chancellor Merkel: "I've made it clear to the US president that spying on friends is not acceptable"



    Germany's Chancellor Angela Merkel has said it is "really not on" for friends to spy on each other, after allegations of US snooping on her phone calls.

    She said she had given that message to US President Barack Obama when they spoke on Wednesday.

    Speaking after the first day of an EU summit in Brussels, Mrs Merkel said France and Germany wanted to hold talks with the US to settle the matter.

    Other EU leaders also voiced concern about the scale of US surveillance.

    The spying row threatens to overshadow EU talks on economic growth and migration to the EU. Mrs Merkel has demanded a "complete explanation" of the claims, which came out in the German media.


    Analysis

    Frank Gardner BBC security correspondent


    The allegation that the US National Security Agency eavesdropped on the personal phone of a closely allied Western leader, if true, is unwelcome news but hardly surprising.

    It has already been revealed that the NSA has been bugging closed discussions inside both the United Nations and the European Union.

    The US has many shared interests with European nations like Germany - counter-terrorism being one of them. But when it comes to economic intelligence, their interests can often diverge into outright competition.

    The US, UK, Russia, China and many other nations all go to great lengths to acquire inside information on other countries covertly - that's what spies do.

    One former insider says that, in the course of targeting other individuals, the NSA may well have eavesdropped on David Cameron's phone calls. The UK-US special relationship, he said, is not enshrined in law.


    She grew up in former communist East Germany, where secret police surveillance was pervasive.

    Earlier on Thursday, her delegation in Brussels confirmed she had met briefly to discuss the issue with France's President Francois Hollande, who has expressed alarm at reports that millions of French calls have been monitored by the US.

    There is concern that the furore could jeopardise EU-US talks on reaching a major free trade deal. The head of Germany's Social Democrats (SPD), Sigmar Gabriel, said such a deal was hard to imagine if the US had infringed citizens' privacy. The SPD is in coalition talks with Chancellor Merkel.


    'Unacceptable'

    In a separate development, Italy's weekly L'Espresso reported that the US and UK had been spying on Italian internet and phone traffic.

    The revelations were sourced to US whistleblower Edward Snowden. It is alleged that the US National Security Agency (NSA) and UK spy centre GCHQ eavesdropped on three undersea cables with terminals in Italy.

    Italian Prime Minister Enrico Letta described the allegations as "inconceivable and unacceptable" and said he wanted to get to the truth of them.

    Meanwhile, the Guardian newspaper reported that the NSA had monitored the phones of 35 world leaders after being given their numbers by another US government official. Again Edward Snowden was the source of the report.






    White House spokesman Jay Carney: "We will work to maintain the strongest possible ties with our closest allies"


    Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte said the alleged spying on Mrs Merkel's mobile phone calls was "serious" and added: "I will support her (Merkel) completely in her complaint and say that this is not acceptable - I think we need all the facts on the table first."

    Finland's Prime Minister Jyrki Katainen echoed him, saying: "We have to get clarification of what has happened and we also need a guarantee that this will never happen again, if it has happened."


    It is hardly as if America is the only country to spy on its allies. But as the list of wronged friends grows by the day, the Snowden effect is not just complicating US diplomacy but also seriously compromising it.”
    Nick Bryant BBC News, New York


    Germany summoned the US ambassador in Berlin over the alleged spying.

    Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle said about his meeting with US envoy John Emerson that he had demanded straight answers from Washington, warning that their friendship is at stake.

    Mrs Merkel discussed the issue with President Obama on Wednesday. He told her the US was not monitoring her calls and would not in future, the White House said.

    However, it left open the question of whether calls had been listened to in the past.

    Former US secretary of state Madeleine Albright said the spying allegations were "not a surprise to people - countries spy on each other", and added that France had spied on her when she was in government.


    Cutting red tape

    The formal agenda for the summit focuses on efforts to consolidate Europe's fragile economic recovery and to create a single market in digital services.

    British Prime Minister David Cameron will also call on the EU to reduce regulations for business.

    But France's President Hollande pressed for the spying issue to be put on the agenda.





    The veteran French EU Commissioner Michel Barnier told the BBC that "enough is enough", and confidence in the US had been shaken.

    Mr Barnier, the commissioner for internal market and services, said Europe must not be naive but develop its own strategic digital tools, such as a "European data cloud" independent of American oversight.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24647602

  2. #2
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    Way to go Sherlock
    As said in the article thats what spies do for a living. Is Merkel trying to say that the German equivalent of the NSA isn't spying on all the other leaders ? All countries do it they just don't like it when the little people find out.
    Treat everyone as a complete and utter idiot and you can only ever be pleasantly surprised !

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    US denies tapping Merkel's mobile phone


    German government obtained information that chancellor's phone had been monitored by US but White House rejects claim.



    US President Barack Obama had assured German Chancellor Angela Merkel that the US is not monitoring her communications, according to the White House spokesman.

    Carney's statement on Wednesday comes in response to the German government's announcement that it has obtained information suggesting the US may have tapped Merkel's mobile phone.

    Merkel called Obama to demand an immediate clarification, her spokesman said in a statement.

    "She made clear that she views such practices, if proven true, as completely unacceptable and condemns them unequivocally," the statement read.

    "Between close friends and partners, as Germany and the US have been for decades, there should not be such monitoring of the communications of a government leader. This would be a grave breach of trust. Such practices should be immediately stopped."

    Just four months ago, Obama defended US anti-terrorism tactics on a visit to Berlin, telling Germans at a news conference with Merkel that Washington was not spying on ordinary citizens.


    US denies tapping Merkel's mobile phone - Americas - Al Jazeera English

  4. #4
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    It turns out that NSA's been spying on all Europe's leaders, around three dozen of them have been yelling foul on the news today, and STILL USA's denying it!!

    GCHQ have also been given some sort of a ticking off by Euro heads, but what gets me is the fact that they've been playing dumb ostrich over the issue for years, but now.... oh hell!! Der Engerlanders Iss verry badt, zey must not doo dat! Donner und blitzen!! Sacre bleu, Inte du!.... etc!

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    The UK may have legitimate reasons for monitoring a German Chancellor post '45.



    US President Barack Obama had assured German Chancellor Angela Merkel that the US is not monitoring her communications whilst also advising her against purchasing several pairs of crotchless underwear she was contemplating

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    So what's surprising? If the America-hating, white-hating, Jew-hating Muslim Socialist POTUS can spy on his own people, why should anyone expect him not to spy on farangs?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Lick
    US accused of spying on EU leaders
    No fucking way man - tell me you're kidding

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    Took a while to reach the public arena but the truth stands a fair chance of coming out eventually. Turns out it wasn't the Anointed One snooping on his mates, it was those evil Zionists.

  9. #9
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    It never ceases to make me wonder at where the hell the general Joe Blow's mind is at whenever topics like this are raised and cries of "Conspiracists!!" and so on are spat out at whistle blowers.

    When I broached this topic on this forum a couple of years ago I was abused and insulted to the max for insisting that such spy systems existed at all, let alone had been around for years, and of course, bar a couple of innocents, the main detractors and filth slingers were those who had some sort of vested interest in dumbing down the populace,.. some educators, others were ex armed forces or working for international companies that were at least affiliated to US interests, if not US companies per se.

    Since ECHELON started, the five original member states have been joined by at least two more, to my knowledge, Eire and the Netherlands, as they see the advantage in joining with such a global surveillance network.

    So, yes, people are dumb, and getting dumber as they drink the fluorides (only useful for tooth formation < age 10) and chant the mantras of "Conspiracist" and "Tin-foil-Hat" and other US and/or Hollywood inspired cliches.

    Here's someone else who agrees with my point of view, someone who thinks.




    Through the PRISM of public amnesia


    So apparently NSA has been listening to our conversations, and - oy vey! - Israeli companies are involved in this too. Am I surprised? Not one bit. I understand that many, who are still dangerously ignorant and believe that governments have our best interests at heart, find this "revelation" rather shocking and outrageous, but the truth is that this is far from being new. I remember how many years ago I first read about a project called Echelon.

    ECHELON, according to information in the European Parliament document, "On the existence of a global system for the interception of private and commercial communications (ECHELON interception system)" was created to monitor the military and diplomatic communications of the Soviet Union and its Eastern Bloc allies during the Cold War in the early 1960s[...]

    Bamford describes the system as the software controlling the collection and distribution of civilian telecommunications traffic conveyed using communication satellites, with the collection being undertaken by ground stations located in the footprint of the downlink leg.[...]

    The UK/USA intelligence community was assessed by the European Parliament (EP) in 2000 to include the signals intelligence agencies of each of the member states: UK, US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, The Netherlands.[...]

    Echelon was created long before the War [of] Terror and prior to the arrival of the Internet, meaning that back then there was no need for thorough "shaping of the public opinion", no need for media to be an overt whore for the military or intelligence agencies.

    NSA, CIA, Mossad, MI5, etc. just did their bloody thing and didn't worry much about whistleblowers. Of course, there were always trouble-makers, but everything was manageable (various coup d'états, COINTELPRO projects, assassinations, etc... piece of cake!), not to mention using the wonderfully silver-tongued concept of "plausible deniability", which came in handy, oh so often. In any event, in the public's eyes, intelligence agencies still had an aura of mystique about them. Hey, who wouldn't want to be a secret agent or a spy?

    Well, there is (something) mysterious about these morally rotten, devoid-of-conscience 'individuals'. They have no shame, no empathy and no regrets. Read L. Fletcher Prouty's The Secret Team: The CIA and Its Allies in Control of the United States and the World to learn more on the topic.

    Some of them may be patriots and care about their country, but when someone's sense of duty is being used to do pure evil, and this someone doesn't utilize his brain power to see what's really happening, then it's even worse than just being a slave of circumstances, because they could choose to direct their supposed high morals towards something that is actually beneficial for their fellow countrymen or for mankind.

    But back to the issue at hand. With time, everyone forgot about Echelon or other similarly Orwellian surveillance programs. Now and then some public committees were convened to look into the spooks' activities, then posted their findings. For example,


    In 2001, the Temporary Committee on the Echelon Interception System recommended to the European Parliament that citizens of member states routinely use cryptography in their communications to protect their privacy, because economic espionage with ECHELON has been conducted by the US intelligence agencies.

    Notice that this report was published on 11th of July, 2001. Once 9/11 happened, we 'entered a new world' where anything goes as far as these people are concerned. In any case, except for a small percentage of "conspiracy oriented" enthusiasts, no one really cared or paid attention to whatever was going on under the surface, or if their phone calls were recorded or not.

    Echelon and its keywords became legend, a piece of "secret" information that everyone with a "conspiratorial streak" knew. Other similar programs were also forgotten or explained away as being "discontinued".

    But were they, really? Would the people who invested so much in covert activities and who built an extensive, deep and overreaching surveillance web simply stop?

    Or would they adapt to the changing times, lay low for a while and work on developing new strategies? In the age of Youtube, Twitter and Facebook, we all do the intelligence gathering work for these agencies, while real whistleblowers are quietly locked up.

    Sharing information, whether it's useful or useless, is the essence of the Internet era, so if there is no way to "stop the signal", they must instead manipulate the information flow to vector the herd mind in this direction, then another.

    I'm no genius and no great analyst, meaning that if I sussed out the above, then the suits using Game Theory and similar psychopathic models to predict and control our actions have already discovered which psychological tactics work and don't work.

    They seek total control, something they can't actually achieve by watching and paying attention to everything everyone does, but which they wishfully 'predict' we will think and thus self-censor and self-police ourselves into accepting their 'total control'. They want us to feel that they are all-knowing and are thus in control of every situation, just as they would like us to believe that Earth Changes or the threat of cometary bombardment from space can be 'fixed' by flying less and painting asteroids.

    With this in mind, it's very hard to not be skeptical about this NSA whisleblower affair. Did we really learn anything new here? Are we really surprised that the NSA and the corporations are working together against us?

    I'm not saying that Edward Snowden isn't sincere and honest. It's quite likely that this young man did what he did because he actually has a conscience and sought to right a wrong. But we mustn't forget the Masters of Smoke and Mirrors, and that nothing is as it seems. In such situations we can only observe the results, and they haven't been that overwhelming, judging from previous attempts.

    Today I read an article that mentions how "in the wake of recent revelations regarding the secret National Security Agency surveillance program known as PRISM, George Orwell's classic dystopian novel 1984 has seen a surge in sales on Amazon.com." I find it quite ironic, because this book's main line of force has to do with the deficiency in collective memory and the abundance of amnesia. We clearly forget who we are dealing with. But they surely haven't.



    [B]"One who deceives will always find those who allow themselves to be deceived."~ Niccolo Machiavelli[/B]

    Through the PRISM of public amnesia -- Puppet Masters -- Sott.net

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Big Fella View Post
    Way to go Sherlock
    As said in the article thats what spies do for a living. Is Merkel trying to say that the German equivalent of the NSA isn't spying on all the other leaders ? All countries do it they just don't like it when the little people find out.
    I wouldn't know what Germany could learn from the US by spying. How to build cars and machines? The other way round is the case, technology theft by the US, and all that terrorism bullshit is a smoke screen. Poor piwi might one day get a congressional medal for his contributions to Islamophobia. BTW, we had stuff like this every other day in the news in East Germany, the US spying on and interfering in internal politics of Japan, Australia, Europe. Abusing the closest allies. Shame you had to wait another 25 years to learn about it.

  11. #11
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    Not wrong there Rainfall.

    Sometimes I think that Germany and central Europe are far more aware of what's really going on on than any of the peripheral states.

    Both UK and USA , also Australia and NZ and South America seem dumber than those countries in proximity to Russia.

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    The US does have the edge in the digital technologies though, along with China, that's why they can do it. That provincialism of Europe has to stop, and the richest continent unified in one state to oppose those two. Next is a United Europe government sponsored program to pass America on the field of digital warfare within a few years, and protects our privacies and patents. Worked with Airbus.

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    NSA: New reports in German media deepen US-Merkel spy row




    The US embassy, near Berlin's Brandenburg Gate, was used to monitor communications, the documents suggest


    US spy leaks

    Fresh reports in German media based on leaked US intelligence documents are prompting damaging new questions about the extent of US surveillance.

    Der Spiegel suggests the US has been spying on German Chancellor Angela Merkel's mobile phone since 2002.

    Another report says Mr Obama was told in 2010 about the surveillance and failed to stop it.

    The spy row has led to the worst diplomatic crisis betweeen the two countries in living memory.

    Leaked documents say a US listening unit was based in its Berlin embassy - and similar operations were replicated in 80 locations around the world.

    The German interior minister has been quoted as saying such an operation, if confirmed, would be illegal.

    On Friday, Germany and France said they wanted the US to sign a no-spy deal by the end of the year.

    As well as the bugging of Mrs Merkel's phone, there are claims the NSA has monitored millions of telephone calls made by German and French citizens.


    'Obama's green light'

    Der Spiegel claims to have seen secret documents from the National Security Agency which show Mrs Merkel's number on a list dating from 2002 - three years before she became chancellor.

    This might indicate that there was extensive bugging of the phones of prominent people, says the BBC's Stephen Evans in Berlin.




    Relations between the two leaders have been warm

    The nature of the monitoring of Mrs Merkel's mobile phone is not clear from the files, Der Spiegel says.

    For example, it is possible that the chancellor's conversations were recorded, or that her contacts were simply assessed.


    Analysis

    Stephen Evans BBC News, Berlin


    By all accounts, Angela Merkel has been genuinely shocked by the revelations.

    People close to her told the BBC she felt personally affronted. When Barack Obama was in Berlin in June, they did seem to get on well. She is not good at hiding her feelings, and the glum scowl she used to reserve for Silvio Berlusconi, for example, was replaced by a beam of warmth.

    They were tactile - he would put his arm round her back; she would clutch his elbow. Perhaps the sense of betrayal is all the greater because of her background in the East German communist regime where spying was pervasive. She might have expected it from the Stasi but not from her new best friend.

    Others might feel betrayed, too. When the original allegations of widespread phone-tapping emerged, some of Chancellor Merkel's confidantes belittled the problem, saying the criticism of the US had a touch of anti-Americanism and that the surveillance was about terrorism.



    These people are now some of the strongest critics of the US. They are also saying that German law has been broken. If the activities of American government employees were investigated by the German authorities, that would make the whole affair harder to damp down. It would be in the system of justice and pursuit would be relentless.Mrs Merkel phoned the US president when she first heard of the spying allegations on Wednesday.

    President Barack Obama apologised to the German chancellor and promised Mrs Merkel he knew nothing of the alleged phone monitoring and would have stopped it if he had, Der Spiegel reports.

    But on Sunday Bild newspaper quoted US intelligence sources as saying NSA head Keith Alexander personally briefed the president about the covert operation targeting Mrs Merkel in 2010.

    "Obama did not halt the operation but rather let it continue," the newspaper quoted a senior NSA official as saying.

    Her number was still on a surveillance list in 2013.

    Germany is sending its top intelligence chiefs to Washington in the coming week to "push forward" an investigation into the spying allegations, which have caused outrage in Germany.


    Criminal investigation?

    The documents seen by Der Spiegel give further details about the NSA's targeting of European governments.

    A unit called Special Collection Services, based on the fourth floor of the US embassy in Pariser Platz in Berlin, was responsible for monitoring communications in the German capital's government quarter, including those targeting Mrs Merkel.

    Germany's Interior Minister Hans-Peter Friedrich told Bild that running such an operation on German soil would be illegal under German law, and adds that those "responsible must be held accountable".

    Similar listening units were based in around 80 locations worldwide, according to the documents seen by Der Spiegel, 19 of them in European cities.

    If the existence of listening stations in US embassies were known, there would be "severe damage for the US's relations with a foreign government," the documents said.

    Mrs Merkel - an Americophile who was awarded the US Presidential Medal of Freedom in 2011 - is said to be shocked that Washington may have engaged in the sort of spying she had to endure growing up in Communist East Germany.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24692908

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    spies spy whats new. move on and ffs change your mobile phones factory password.

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    American listening posts have been in operation in Asia ever since WW2.

    NSA internet-snooping program using Thailand
    Published: 2 Aug 2013 at 15.57

    The US National Security Agency uses computer servers in Thailand to help run a massive networked collection of information about internet users, and to store and analyse the data.





    This is one slide from a 32-slide presentation taken from secret NSA servers by the fugitive Edward Snowden and published Thursday in the British newspaper The Guardian.


    Revelations about operation XKeyscore came Thursday from Edward Snowden, America's most-wanted fugitive Russia granted Mr Snowden a one-year amnesty and he finally left the Moscow airport.

    According to secret information leaked by Mr Snowden through presentation" >The Guardian newspaper, XKeyscore is a massive programme that sweeps up email, social media activity and all browsing history.

    The data according to NSA slides detailing the programme, is analysed, sifted and stored on servers around the world - more than 700 servers at approximately 150 sites, as the "top secret" slide states.

    A small-scale world map locates the sites with the use of red dots (see slide above). There are three dots which may also cover Myanmar, Vietnam or Cambodia. But at least one of the dots sits atop the image of Thailand.

    While locating NSA spy technology in Thailand is unsurprising, few details are known. The servers would have to be large computer arrays by definition but they could be anywhere, from the US Embassy to almost any office building in Bangkok or up-country

    The NSA has a long history of using Thailand in its long-range interception programmes.

    In the Vietnam war era, the NSA was the agency behind the huge electronic Ramasun spy station south of Udorn Thani.

    US spying on internet in Thailand? | Bangkok Post: learning

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    German parliament to meet over U.S. spying scandal
    BERLIN | Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:02pm EDT

    Germany's parliament will hold a special session on reports the United States tapped Chancellor Angela Merkel's phone and left-wing parties demanded a public inquiry calling in witnesses including former U.S. intelligence operative Edward Snowden.

    Her conservative party, now in talks with the opposition Social Democrats on forming a new governing coalition after the Sept. 22 election, said it would not stand in the way of any parliamentary committee investigating the espionage affair.

    Reports last week that the U.S. National Security Agency had bugged Merkel's mobile phone stirred outrage in a country haunted by memories of eavesdropping by the Stasi secret police in old communist East Germany.

    A rift over U.S. surveillance activities first emerged earlier this year with reports that Washington had wired European Union offices and monitored half a billion phone calls, emails and text messages in Germany in a typical month.

    "These actions are intolerable, they have the power to destroy the ties of friendship that have always bound us to the U.S.," said Andrea Nahles, general secretary of the centre-left Social Democrats (SPD).

    "A Bundestag (lower house of parliament) committee, which could shed light on the case, is unavoidable," Nahles told the Bild daily. "Edward Snowden could be a valuable witness."

    [B]A German newspaper said on Sunday that U.S. President Barack Obama knew his intelligence service was eavesdropping on Merkel as long ago as 2010, contradicting reports that he had told the German leader he did not know.[/B]

    Merkel's Christian Democratic Union and the SPD have agreed to hold a special session of parliament on the spying scandal on Nov. 18, a spokesman for the conservatives said on Monday.

    The SPD, Greens and radical Left party also are keen for parliament to set up an investigative committee.

    The panel could call up witnesses in the scandal including the chancellor herself or Snowden, now living in asylum in Russia after he leaked details of U.S. spy programmes, the parties said.

    Gregor Gysi, parliamentary leader of the Left, said Germany should include Snowden in its witness protection scheme so he could speak before the committee.
    German parliament to meet over U.S. spying scandal | Reuters

  17. #17
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    And she thought the Stazi where bad,small fry compared to this lot.

  18. #18
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    Spain Summons U.S. Ambassador in Spying Scandal
    Published: October 28, 2013

    MADRID — The Spanish government summoned the American ambassador on Monday to address allegations that the National Security Agency collected data on millions of telephone calls in Spain.


    Adding to a spying scandal that includes France, Germany, Brazil and Mexico, two Spanish newspapers reported Monday that the agency collected data on 60 million telephone calls.

    Following his meeting with Spanish officials, the ambassador, James Costos, issued a statement in which he acknowledged Spain’s worries about the surveillance programs and said, “Ultimately, the United States needs to balance the important role that these programs play in protecting our national security and protecting the security of our allies with legitimate privacy concerns.”

    In his statement, Mr. Costos did not discuss the details of the spying claims, nor did the Spanish government do so following the meeting, which lasted less than an hour. Instead, Iñigo Méndez de Vigo, a Spanish secretary of state, referred in a separate statement to the need to maintain “a necessary balance” between security and privacy concerns. Spain, he added, is calling on Washington to clarify “the reach of measures that, if proven to be true, are improper and unacceptable between partners and friendly countries.”

    Adding to a spying scandal that includes France, Germany and Mexico, the Spanish news media reported Monday that the agency recently collected data on 60 million telephone calls in Spain. El Mundo and El País, two Spanish newspapers, based their reporting on documents viewed by Glenn Greenwald, an American journalist, that were provided by Edward J. Snowden, the former N.S.A. contractor who has been at the center of the spying scandal.

    According to the Spanish newspapers, the N.S.A. gathered data on phone numbers and locations but did not monitor the contents of the calls. The data covered information relating to about 60 million Spanish phone calls and was collected between December and early January.

    The scandal, which has strained relations between Washington and some of its most important allies, has recently focused on whether the N.S.A. targeted the cellphone of the German chancellor, Angela Merkel. The Spanish government has so far declined to discuss whether it had evidence that Washington had spied on Spanish government officials.

    “Spying activities aren’t proper among partner countries and allies,” Mariano Rajoy, Spain’s prime minister, said at a news conference last week in Brussels, where he was attending a meeting of European Union leaders.

    Last year, Spain agreed to extend an American lease of military facilities on its territory, including the Rota naval base, where the United States is planning to station Aegis antimissile vessels as part of the European defense shield of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/29/wo...g-scandal.html

    ----
    US's immoral role alright!! And Americans wonder why the world is ready to kick it in proverbial b*t!!!

    America's paranoia coupled with it's culture of suppression of information and complete lack of transparency in government has almost destroyed any trust people once felt for America, or its expat citizens anywhere.

    The uncomfortable over-sensitive defensiveness of her overseas citizens is tangible and almost visible these days.

    Wake up Americans, there's a great world outside of your hermetic bubbles of propaganda, one which needs you to participate in as healers, not destroyers, and as partners not competitors!.

    The whole world has a common enemy that no amount of eavesdropping on is going to combat, no amount of arms is going to vanquish.

    It's called a collapsing environment, and only a war on polluting and destructive, out of control, capitalist greed is going to win that one!

    All the rest of your much hyped wars on drugs, terror and whatever the next excuse you use to destroy anything in your path to wealth, are a useless sham and a mockery of your own constitution, and life itself.

  19. #19
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    This story's not gonna go away, is it?


    US coping with furious allies as NSA spying revelations grow

    Unhappy with the Obama administration after learning that the U.S. has spied on dozens of European leaders, the European Union is threatening to cancel pending trade talks. NBC's Andrea Mitchell reports.

    The United States is scrambling to soothe some of its closest allies, angered as one report after another details vast American spying — including gathering data on tens of millions of phone calls in Spain in a single month.

    The latest report, published Monday in the Spanish newspaper El Mundo, said that the National Security Agency had collected information on 60 million calls in that country last December.

    It followed reports in the last week that the United States spied on leaders of at least 35 countries, and even bugged the personal cellphone of German Chancellor Angela Merkel.

    Jay Carney, the White House press secretary, said Monday that a White House review of intelligence-gathering would be complete by year’s end, and that it would address how to balance national security and privacy.

    But he stressed: “The work that’s being done here saves lives and protects the United States and protects our allies, and protects Americans stationed in very dangerous places around the world.”
    “We don’t just do it because we can,” he said. He declined comment on stories about specific NSA spying activities.


    German intelligence chiefs are preparing to visit Washington this week to demand answers, and the German Parliament on Monday called a special session for Nov. 18 to talk about NSA spying.

    At the Capitol, a delegation of European Parliament officials met with Rep. Mike Rogers, R-Mich. and the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, to discuss the spying reports. Several who spoke to reporters later voiced frustration, and questioned whether the United States was legitimately trying to fight terrorism.

    “If we don’t get the explanations, I don’t think we can trust on the reliability of the U.S. in these questions,” said Axel Voss, a German member of the European Parliament. “But if they are now starting to talk to us and explaining to us why and how and what data and so on, then it might be very helpful, and we can regain trust and reinstall trust again.”
    He added: “But it’s getting more and more difficult.”

    President Barack Obama has had to apologize to Merkel and to the presidents of France and Brazil. The Brazilian president was so angry she canceled a state visit.

    Former White House press secretary Robert Gibbs tells TODAY's Savannah Guthrie the Obama administration should consider whether spying on world leaders is worth the intelligence they are getting, saying the latest revelations are an embarrassment.
    The Obama administration and its defenders say that most of the spying is legitimate, for the protection of the United States and its allies.

    In a statement Sunday night, U.S. National Security Council spokeswoman Caitlin Hayden said that a White House review is examining “the way that we gather intelligence to ensure that we properly account for the security concerns of our citizens and allies and the privacy concerns that all people share, and to ensure that our intelligence resources most effectively support our foreign policy and national security objectives.”

    Rep. Peter King, R-N.Y. and a member of the House Intelligence Committee, said on NBC’s “Meet the Press” that the administration should not apologize or be defensive.

    “The reality is the NSA has saved thousands of lives, not just in the United States but in France, Germany and throughout Europe,” he said. “We’re not doing it for the fun of it. This is to gather valuable intelligence, which helps not just us but also helps the Europeans.”

    The reports have come from documents leaked by Edward Snowden, the fugitive former NSA contractor. The only clear denial from the NSA has concerned a British report that said that Obama was told three years ago that the agency was eavesdropping on Merkel.

    The German newspaper Der Spiegel reported that Obama told Merkel that he would have halted the hacking if he had known about it.

    The consequences may be economic, not just diplomatic. The European Union, the United States’ largest trading partner, is threatening to cancel trade talks over the revelation.

    In the meantime, the U.S. is left to deal with furious allies without knowing what Snowden will reveal next.
    “When we’re doing this on Germany, on France, on Great Britain and other nations that we’ve been allied with in fighting Al Qaeda, in invading Libya together, these kinds of things just trample trust,” said Steve Clemons, who writes frequently on foreign policy.

    Robert Gibbs, a former press secretary for the Obama administration, told TODAY on Monday that “clearly, damage has been done.
    “I think we have to evaluate whether the costs of the methods of gathering some intelligence greatly exceeds the benefit of that intelligence, particularly when we’re listening in to, apparently, some of our very closest allies,” he said.

    US coping with furious allies as NSA spying revelations grow - U.S. News

    ----
    This bit below (along with similar comments in the article) gets me;

    "But he stressed: “The work that’s being done here saves lives and protects the United States and protects our allies, and protects Americans stationed in very dangerous places around the world.”

    “We don’t just do it because we can,” he said. He declined comment on stories about specific NSA spying activities."

    Yeh,....right....

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ENT
    The German newspaper Der Spiegel reported that Obama told Merkel that he would have halted the hacking if he had known about it.
    "I know nothing" Obama May Have Known About NSA Surveillance On Merkel, New Report Says | TIME.com
    He knows nothing about a lot of things doesn't he:
    Tax scandal
    Obama Care website screw up
    Health Care Insurance rate skyrocketing
    Bengazi terrorist attack
    Etc Etc
    What the Fook do they tell him at the morning security briefings, oops I forgot he doesn't need to attend them because he already knows everything.

  21. #21
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    He's giving the appearance of being dumber than Bush 2 which to be fair is one hell of an achievement.

  22. #22
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    There can't be much hope for America then.

    During his early years as president, his vice president wossizname(?) referred to Obama as the brains!

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by ENT View Post
    This story's not gonna go away, is it?
    Sure it will. Benghazi did, and the wicked witch of the West that presided over it is in hiding till 2015 when she is scheduled to resurface and steal the presidency like her predecessor.

  24. #24
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    Rubbish.

    If you think that anyone doesn't care if they're being spied on, monitored or had their privacy invaded, just leave your email or facebook page open for a few days, or longer, mate.

    Until some sort of resolution comes out of this, sparks are gonna fly.

  25. #25
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    all this ridiculous outrage from the germans. government agencies are just doing what they have to do, and the americans do it quite well, however distasteful it might seem to some.

    as john le carres character karla said, "you must spy on your friends today, for tomorrow they will be your enemies."

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