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  1. #26
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    So you're quite happy with the UK gov. spying on you and keeping track of your phone call, emails etc then?

  2. #27
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    A shame there are still people who don't understand how dangerous this is, and that it is not so much about Americans vs Germans for the chance Germany joins the axis of evil. Your privacy is what makes you a distinct individual, your secrets. If commercial interests, private ones, or governments know them they have the means to control and exploit you. Just imagine that your girlfriend can access by GPS were your smartphone is, and you are not as you told her in a bar on the darkside watching cricket with friends, but in a whorehouse in Soi 6.

    Possibly not only Merkel's phone calls were intercepted, but every conversation. All the new gadgets like smartphones, tablet computers, watchphones can be remote controlled, turned on, and serve as microphones and cameras.

  3. #28
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    Conspiracy, lies, pure bullshit, surely? The US would never do that. They'd never infringe on their Bill of Rights, constitution, break Posse Comitatus or international law. For anyone to actually believe this nonsense is a tinfoil hatter!

  4. #29
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    What I love is how the American people for the majority have gone from "We'd never do this" to "It's for National Security"

    Bhhhaaaaaaaaa

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainfall View Post
    A shame there are still people who don't understand how dangerous this is, and that it is not so much about Americans vs Germans for the chance Germany joins the axis of evil. Your privacy is what makes you a distinct individual, your secrets. If commercial interests, private ones, or governments know them they have the means to control and exploit you. Just imagine that your girlfriend can access by GPS were your smartphone is, and you are not as you told her in a bar on the darkside watching cricket with friends, but in a whorehouse in Soi 6.

    Possibly not only Merkel's phone calls were intercepted, but every conversation. All the new gadgets like smartphones, tablet computers, watchphones can be remote controlled, turned on, and serve as microphones and cameras.
    Spot on!!

    Someone who's actually aware of this technology and how far it reaches!!

    Hell, didn't anybody know that a pacemaker or defibrillator can be tracked remotely, turned off or on remotely and turned into a kind of electronic heart bomb?

    Rumsfeld's biggest fear at present is that Al Quaeda can track him down and dick up his heart for him!

  6. #31
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    It is amazing what "progressives" in the US let Obama get away with. If Bush or any other GOP POTUS did as much stuff as Obama, they (libs and Demicrat politicoes) would be on every corner calling for his "impeachment".

    I guess a little color goes a long way with the "progressives".

    RickThai

  7. #32
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    A real dodgy answer came out of this shill's gob.



    US didn't spy on NZ, Key says
    06:30 Wed Oct 30 2013AAP

    Prime Minister John Key says he's confident the United States didn't spy on New Zealand, but he won't say why.
    The US has serious diplomatic problems to deal with because of the revelation that its National Security Agency (NSA) spied on world leaders, including German Chancellor Angela Merkel.

    Mr Key was asked at his post-cabinet press conference on Tuesday whether the Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB) had been involved in the spying, because it is part of the international surveillance organisation known as Five Eyes.

    The Five Eyes partners are the US, Britain, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

    "I don't know all of the information they exchange and the discussions they (the GCSB) have with their counterparts... and I'm not aware of all the activities the United States undertakes," he said.

    "I don't have all the details but I'm comfortable that all the activities of the GCSB have been lawful."

    Asked whether he was satisfied the US didn't spy on New Zealand, he replied: "Yes."

    Asked why he was satisfied, he said: "For reasons I'm not going to bother going into."

    Mr Key wouldn't answer questions about whether New Zealand was exempt from US spying because if was a member of Five Eyes.

    He said he wasn't going to discuss that. "I'm just confident of the position (that the US didn't spy on New Zealand)."

    Mr Key said he didn't know anything about the NSA's activities.

    "I read the papers like everyone else, it's a matter for the US to manage and it's not a matter for me."
    US didn't spy on NZ, Key says

    How two faced can a guy get?

    He has to be the fastest shoe shuffler in government!

    He says, "I'm just confident of the position (that the US didn't spy on New Zealand)."

    And why is he so confident that US wasn't spying on New Zealand?
    It's because NZ, in partnership with US, UK, Oz and Canada, is one of the original members of the "Five Eyes" of ECHELON, so does its own spying on its citizens, constantly since the 1970s, the dodgy bugger!

    And why,when asked why he was satisfied that US wasn't spying on NZ, he said: "For reasons I'm not going to bother going into"?

    Again, the answer is because he doesn't want to admit that NZ has been spying on its citizens since day one of ECHELON stating in NZ!


    What a slippery explanation!

  8. #33
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    US intelligence chief Clapper defends spying policy




    James Clapper said knowing what foreign leaders were thinking was critical to US policymaking


    The head of US intelligence has told lawmakers that discerning foreign leaders' intentions is a key goal of the nation's spying operations.

    Director of National Intelligence James Clapper said such efforts were a "top tenet" of US intelligence policy.

    But he told the intelligence panel of the House of Representatives the US did not "indiscriminately" spy on nations.

    Mr Clapper was reacting to a growing international row over reports the US eavesdropped on foreign allies.

    "Leadership intentions is kind of a basic tenet of what we collect and analyse," Mr Clapper said, adding that foreign allies spy on US officials and intelligence agencies as a matter of routine.

    He said that what he called the torrent of disclosures about American surveillance had been extremely damaging and that he anticipated more.




    President Obama says he wants to ''review'' the NSA's operations


    But he said there was no other country that had the magnitude of oversight that the US had, and that any mistakes that had been made were human or technical.

    The BBC's Jonny Dymond in Washington says if anyone was expecting apologies or embarrassment from the leaders of America's intelligence community they were in for a disappointment.

    Also testifying before the House intelligence committee was National Security Agency (NSA) director Gen Keith Alexander, who called media reports in France, Spain and Italy that the NSA gathered data on millions of telephone calls "completely false".

    The information "that led people to believe that the NSA or United States collected that information is false, and it's false that it was collected on European citizens," he added. "It was neither."

    Gen Alexander said much of the data cited by non-US news outlets was actually collected by European intelligence services and later shared with the NSA.

    Gen Alexander added: "It is much more important for this country that we defend this nation and take the beatings than it is to give up a programme that would result in this nation being attacked."




    What do people in Spain make of news 60 million calls were tracked?


    Our correspondent says the intelligence pair were not given a tough time by the committee but that sentiment is turning within Congress toward tightening up the reach of American intelligence agencies.

    The testimony came amid a series of reports in the international news media that the NSA had spied extensively on the leaders, diplomats and citizens of nations friendly to the US, including Brazil, France, Germany, Mexico and Spain.

    The revelations stem from documents leaked by fugitive ex-US intelligence contractor Edward Snowden, who now lives in Russia and is wanted in the US in connection with the unauthorised disclosures.

    President Barack Obama has faced significant criticism over reports he was unaware of the extent of the spying.

    In a television interview, the US president said the country's national security operations were being reassessed to ensure the NSA's growing technological capability was kept under control.

    "We give them policy direction," he told ABC's Fusion network.

    "But what we've seen over the last several years is their capacities continue to develop and expand, and that's why I'm initiating now a review."


    'Totally opposed'

    In one of the most significant disclosures, German media have reported that the US bugged German Chancellor Angela Merkel's phone for more than a decade - and that the surveillance only ended a few months ago.

    It has also been reported that the NSA spied on French diplomats in Washington and at the UN, and that it conducted surveillance on millions of French and Spanish telephone calls, among other operations against US allies.

    On Monday, US Senate intelligence committee chairwoman Dianne Feinstein called for an end to eavesdropping on leaders of the nation's allies.

    Ms Feinstein said the White House had told her such surveillance would stop, but a senior administration official told the BBC there was no policy change so far.

    "With respect to NSA collection of intelligence on leaders of US allies - including France, Spain, Mexico and Germany - let me state unequivocally: I am totally opposed," she said in a statement.

    "It is my understanding that President Obama was not aware Chancellor Merkel's communications were being collected since 2002. That is a big problem."


    BBC News - US intelligence chief Clapper defends spying policy

  9. #34
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    Kipling's Great Game just got Greater.

    Recall when Obama was elected? The whole world would love us now...

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickThai View Post
    It is amazing what "progressives" in the US let Obama get away with. If Bush or any other GOP POTUS did as much stuff as Obama, they (libs and Demicrat politicoes) would be on every corner calling for his "impeachment".

    I guess a little color goes a long way with the "progressives".

    RickThai
    His colour is important, it allowed him to slither into the WH beneath the lowest standards of decency, probity, and qualification.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by leemo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RickThai View Post
    It is amazing what "progressives" in the US let Obama get away with. If Bush or any other GOP POTUS did as much stuff as Obama, they (libs and Demicrat politicoes) would be on every corner calling for his "impeachment".

    I guess a little color goes a long way with the "progressives".

    RickThai
    His colour is important, it allowed him to slither into the WH beneath the lowest standards of decency, probity, and qualification.
    Aided in great part by LIV's...

    Just In:


    Angela Merkel reacts to news Obama didn't know he was following her
    Last edited by Boon Mee; 30-10-2013 at 08:39 AM.
    A Deplorable Bitter Clinger

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by leemo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RickThai View Post
    It is amazing what "progressives" in the US let Obama get away with. If Bush or any other GOP POTUS did as much stuff as Obama, they (libs and Demicrat politicoes) would be on every corner calling for his "impeachment".

    I guess a little color goes a long way with the "progressives".

    RickThai
    His colour is important, it allowed him to slither into the WH beneath the lowest standards of decency, probity, and qualification.

    Yup,

    Ol' honky got sucked in again, dat dum bleedin heart shnook.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by leemo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RickThai View Post
    It is amazing what "progressives" in the US let Obama get away with. If Bush or any other GOP POTUS did as much stuff as Obama, they (libs and Demicrat politicoes) would be on every corner calling for his "impeachment".

    I guess a little color goes a long way with the "progressives".

    RickThai
    His colour is important, it allowed him to slither into the WH beneath the lowest standards of decency, probity, and qualification.
    Actually, I think the title of "lowest standards of decency, probity, and qualification" for POTUS goes to . . . . drum roll . . . . Wicked Willie Clinton! Now there was a guy who made a very successful living (and continues to do so) out of skirt-chasing and "telling people what they want to hear".

    Obama is just a self-serving, socialistic, fool IMO. (not really indecent, just a man of limited abilities - in way over his head).

    RickThai

  14. #39
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    Actually I kind of like the latest (and very honest) statement of: "Sure we do! Everyone does." by the Intelligence Director.

    I think what pisses off our Allies, is just that the US is so much better at it then they are (with the exception of the Israelis who might be the best of all).

    RickThai

  15. #40
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    It'll be interesting to see how the allies handle this spying outrage especially as the US has changed it's stance on several occasions from 'No, we didn't', 'yes we did' to 'sort of but it's now under review'.

    Apologies don't really work in these situations and the fact that Germany now wishes to gain more info about the NSA's true role from Snowden says much about the lack of trust now placed with america.

    In such serious circumstances, penalties/sanctions are usually implemented. Whether this implies a restriction in the opening hours of McDonalds in Berlin remains to be seen.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Lick View Post
    It'll be interesting to see how the allies handle this spying outrage especially as the US has changed it's stance on several occasions from 'No, we didn't', 'yes we did' to 'sort of but it's now under review'.

    Apologies don't really work in these situations and the fact that Germany now wishes to gain more info about the NSA's true role from Snowden says much about the lack of trust now placed with america.

    In such serious circumstances, penalties/sanctions are usually implemented. Whether this implies a restriction in the opening hours of McDonalds in Berlin remains to be seen.
    It's not America they mistrust but the America-hating, white-hating, Jew-hating psychotic Kenyan Muslim Socialist in the White House. And he's black, so obviously they're a bunch of closet racists!

  17. #42
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    Tapping into the 'phone calls of the heads of states in 'friendly' countries is just another example of America's general paranoia. Crap on your friends and you fear that they may do the same to you.

    America's political, espionage, military and business practices around the world are merely evidence of a nation's decline. The US calls you a 'friend' only when it wants something from you. It's time for the Western world to dump them.

  18. #43
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    The europeans are just pissed off that they didnt know about it sooner and that they have been made to look silly.

    Everybody knows that this sort of thing goes on, and given recent history, e.g. the fact that the war in afghanistan which was UN mandated and backed, and was fought by usa, uk and canadian troops with no help from the germans or the cowardly french, then it is not surprising that the americans were interested in the thoughts and motives of their non participating "allies".

    Ive no doubt that the french and the germans have covert networks, probably industrial espionage
    networks operating in the usa.

    I cant understand all this faux outrage coming from the europeans, who are as duplicitous and manipulative as any politicians on earth.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by taxexile View Post
    The europeans are just pissed off that they didnt know about it sooner and that they have been made to look silly.

    Everybody knows that this sort of thing goes on, and given recent history, e.g. the fact that the war in afghanistan which was UN mandated and backed, and was fought by usa, uk and canadian troops with no help from the germans or the cowardly french, then it is not surprising that the americans were interested in the thoughts and motives of their non participating "allies".

    Ive no doubt that the french and the germans have covert networks, probably industrial espionage
    networks operating in the usa.

    I cant understand all this faux outrage coming from the europeans, who are as duplicitous and manipulative as any politicians on earth.

    No-one would claim that only the US spies. The issue is that not only has the government of the US been caught listening to the 'phone calls of senior foreign and friendly politicians but it lied about it. Put that together with the other things it's doing to hack off the rest of the world and it's unwillingness to deal with its gun massacres at home and you have a nation in terminal decline with fewer and fewer 'friends'.

    Snowden for the Nobel Peace Prize!

  20. #45
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    WASHINGTON — It has been revealing to watch the White House chase the NSA surveillance story. At first, when Edward Snowden’s revelations broke, White House officials sought to make the story about him. Snowden was a traitor and the issue was how quickly he could be brought to justice.

    As the first wave of revelations about wholesale U.S. harvesting of data and phone records broke, they maintained this stance.

    The administration still focused on portraying itself as the victim of a betrayal.

    Again, White House spokespeople did not address the ethics of what the U.S. government had been doing,....................

    instead either diverting to the rationale for the scope of such wide-ranging surveillance operations or offering the excuse that running an intelligence system with more than half a million people naturally comes with operational security risks and, inevitably, there are contractors of dubious background like Snowden, who receive top-secret clearance.

    When Snowden sought asylum, the United States made the story about the other governments that were collaborating with the young rogue fugitive.

    Tensions rose with Russia when it gave Snowden a temporary and then a longer-term home. Latin American nations that offered or considered offering Snowden asylum were framed as pariahs. We even collaborated with allies in Europe to ground the plane of Bolivia’s president in the hopes of nabbing the former contractor.

    As the story then spread and countries like Brazil and Mexico were discovered to be the targets of espionage, the White House’s response publicly and in private to those governments was “everybody does it.”

    Again, no discussion was made of why we were spying on these friends or, if assertions of spying against commercial targets like Petrobras were true, what the rationale was for this kind of economic espionage.

    After all, the initial arguments were that this unprecedentedly massive program was to protect us from terrorists and other enemies. Was there a hidden Petrobras-al Qaida connection that we didn’t know about?

    More recently, the White House’s reaction has revealed the double standard we have when it comes to surveilling our friends.
    For the White House, it is now time to stop chasing this story and get ahead of it. It is time to say, without acknowledging secret programs or compromising security, “We were wrong. We went too far. We reserve the right to defend ourselves using all reasonable means at our disposal. But we can’t do so in ways that compromise the values, alliances, and trust that are also vital pillars of our strength.”

    It is time therefore to welcome California Sen. Dianne Feinstein’s calls for a top-to-bottom review of intelligence programs. It is time to embrace emerging congressional initiatives to limit data warehousing and wholesale privacy violations.

    Excerpts from, and read on, more here \/;
    Runaway spying and secrecy makes us victims, not of terrorists, but of our own fears (Commentary) | SILive.com

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morden
    Snowden for the Nobel Peace Prize!

    and possible asylum in Germany?


    Germany 'should offer Edward Snowden asylum after NSA revelations'

    Writing in Der Spiegel, more than 50 high-profile Germans add to increasing calls for Berlin to welcome NSA whistleblower





    Edward Snowden's asylum arrangements with Russia expire in June 2014.


    An increasing number of public figures are calling for Edward Snowden to be offered asylum in Germany, with more than 50 asking Berlin to step up it support of the US whistleblower in the new edition of Der Spiegel magazine
    Heiner Geissler, the former general secretary of Angela Merkel's Christian Democrats, says in the appeal: "Snowden has done the western world a great service. It is now up to us to help him."

    The writer and public intellectual Hans Magnus Enzensberger argues in his contribution that "the American dream is turning into a nightmare" and suggests that Norway would be best placed to offer Snowden refuge, given its track record of offering political asylum to Leon Trotsky in 1935. He bemoans the fact that in Britain, "which has become a US colony", Snowden is regarded as a traitor.

    Other public figures on the list include the actor Daniel Brühl, the novelist Daniel Kehlmann, the entrepreneur Dirk Rossmann, the feminist activist Alice Schwarzer and the German football league president, Reinhard Rauball.

    The weekly news magazine also publishes a "manifesto for truth", written by Snowden, in which the former NSA employee warns of the danger of spy agencies setting the political agenda.

    "At the beginning, some of the governments who were exposed by the revelations of mass surveillance initiated an unprecedented smear campaign. They intimidated journalists and criminalised the publication of the truth

    "Today we know that this was a mistake, and that such behaviour is not in the public interest. The debate they tried to stop is now taking place all over the world", Snowden writes in the short comment piece sent to Der Spiegel via an encrypted channel.

    As calls for drastic measures in response to the NSA revelations are increasing in Germany, Angela Merkel seems to be avoiding direct confrontation with Washington. Several politicians from the chancellor's party have expressed their eagerness to meet Snowden in Russia while simultaneously seeming to rule out the possibility of inviting the whistleblower to Germany. "There is no reason to make a call on a Snowden stay in Germany at this stage," Michael Grosse-Brömer told Rhein-Neckar-Zeitung.

    The Kremlin has signalled that it would allow German delegates to meet Snowden in Moscow. Snowden was free to meet anyone and would not be stopped from doing so, said a spokesperson for Vladimir Putin.

    During a meeting with a politician from the German Green party in Moscow on Thursday, however, Snowden reportedly expressed reluctance about such a solution. Testifying to a German parliamentary inquiry in Russia, where his asylum runs out next June, would get the whistleblower nowhere nearer to solving his current dilemma. If Snowden left Russia to testify to the Bundestag, he would lose his current status but could potentially apply for asylum in Germany.

    Meanwhile, signs are increasing that Merkel is trying to resolve the current diplomatic crisis with a new bilateral agreement with the US, instead of pushing for a pan-European reform of data protection laws. Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung reported on Sunday that the two countries were close to a "no spy" agreement, which is expected to be signed at the start of the new year. A delegation of German politicians visited the White House for discussions last week.

    There is some speculation as to whether Merkel is using the crisis to try to
    negotiate German membership of the "five eyes" group – the intelligence-sharing network between America, Britain, Canada, Australia and New Zealand created during the second world war. Last week, Merkel's spokesperson denied Germany had intentions to join the anglophone club.


    Germany 'should offer Edward Snowden asylum after NSA revelations' | World news | theguardian.com

  22. #47
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    Just as well Obama knew nothing about it.

  23. #48
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    You betcha! It could have been embarrassing for him eh,what?

  24. #49
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    A person who has the sole delusional belief that he is an important religious figure would be classified by Kraepelin as having 'pure paranoia'.
    In Judaism, chosenness is the belief that the Jews are the chosen people.

    The word paranoia comes from the Greek παράνοια (paranoia), "madness".

    Well, U.S.rael is run by a group of people that are born with paranoia.
    Now we know why the former U.S.A. has gone MAD.

  25. #50
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    Jews reckon they're the chosen ones, so do Muslims think the same about themselves, and so did Hitler reckon on Arians being the best thing since sliced bread,...even Thai people have been told by a certain personage that they can do no wrong, they're perfect, etc.

    Buncha nutters the lot of them..

    I, and only I am perfect!

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