Bitcoin May Be the Global Economy's Last Safe Haven

**Cujo** · 31-03-2013, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by Necron99

^ PayPal has regular bank accounts, is regulated, and will send you real money...
Bit coin has hackers, card fraudsters, and will send you dodgy goods.

And if you're selling dodgy goods, what use is the bitcoin you receive for it if somewhere alomg the way you can't convert it to actual cash.

**Necron99** · 31-03-2013, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by Koojo

Originally Posted by Necron99

^ PayPal has regular bank accounts, is regulated, and will send you real money...
Bit coin has hackers, card fraudsters, and will send you dodgy goods.

And if you're selling dodgy goods, what use is the bitcoin you receive for it if somewhere alomg the way you can't convert it to actual cash.

Other dodgy people may give you cash for it. Getting the actual cash for you bit coin is the faith bit.

**ltnt** · 31-03-2013, 12:43 PM

Actually according to the article I read, cash can be had for Bitcoin. Recognition of users/retailers for bitcoin is also on-line.

**hazz** · 31-03-2013, 03:22 PM

I think the reasoning is quite simple. The americans tend to deal with organised crime by going after them for their finical crimes. tax evasion, money laundering, the payments between groups for services. Now traditionally cash provides a nice anonymous payment service between these crime gangs, but at the cost of the logistic issues of handling 100 dollar notes and face to fact meetings.

These online alternative currencies provide a very convent alternative to cash, not necessarily to drug cartels but certainly to the disparate ganges that contribute to much of the online crime we have today. those who build and operate zombie networks, those that capture credit card details and those who use them would have a hard time financing each other using cash, and the use of traceable transactions would be just about the only way that these transnational groups could be prosecuted.

I would have thought that this loss of an important evidence trail that traceable financial transactions provide would be far more disturbing to a government than any threat it might pose to the currency, the fed or the banking sector.... for the latter the sector is just too small to care about.

**ltnt** · 31-03-2013, 05:28 PM

Good point Hazz, but electronic footprints are traceable...yes?

**hazz** · 31-03-2013, 05:38 PM

Only if you are able to associate a real live person to an ip or bitcoin address. something that with good internet hygiene nobody would be able to do.

**Necron99** · 31-03-2013, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by ltnt

Good point Hazz, but electronic footprints are traceable...yes?

Not realistically, not one you start crossing borders.
Is Interpol going to be concerned you got diddled an a 100 bitcoins from a china IP?

**ltnt** · 31-03-2013, 06:14 PM

^No, but if its in the bazillions as in Cyprus perhaps someone would be interested. It was my understanding that the depositors in bit-coins also backed up their electronic deposit with actual currency or valued object?

I would think any wise-guy would love this form of monetary credit?

I just got "redded," for mentioning Fox News as a resource. Nazi! I'll be looking for you're "electronic footprint."

If supposing that one had Bazillions, but didn't want exposure to the classic financial institutions, the bit-coin is perfect. No need to launder in an open market? Russians are doing it all the time.

**hazz** · 31-03-2013, 06:25 PM

Whilst reding someone for quoting fox as a reliable news source is rather extreme. I would say that anyone regarding either fox or the daily mail as a reliable or reputable new source has serious problems differentiating truth from fantasy.

**ltnt** · 31-03-2013, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by hazz

differentiating truth from fantasy.

Not a requirement for Teak Door...remember how you got here?

**hazz** · 31-03-2013, 06:34 PM

I clicked on a little square icon next to your name. and what a waste of a click that was.

**beazalbob69** · 31-03-2013, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by hazz

Whilst reding someone for quoting fox as a reliable news source is rather extreme. I would say that anyone regarding either fox or the daily mail as a reliable or reputable new source has serious problems differentiating truth from fantasy.

I would go as far to say any mainstream media news source not just fox news or daily mail. You have to really dig to find the real news nowadays and even then that news is sketchy at best.

**hazz** · 31-03-2013, 06:50 PM

The problem is that once you move away from these 'mainstrem' new sources you tend to find that anyone with a real story or truth is drowns under a sea of the insane, the tin foil heads, and corporate astroturffing.

what people need to do and generally don't do, is to stop simply searching for a source of information that they can simply accept because it reenforces their perceived prejudices and to simply fact check what they are being told and asks simple questions of stories.... like does it make logical sense? its the total failure to do this that leads the likes of tom, boonmee and pseudolus, to name a few, to post utter bollocks much of the time.

I.E the NRA say that the US have less assaults than the UK because americans have guns. look at facts being quoted and wether or not they confirm whats being claimed. 5 minutes of fact checking demonstrates that the US cook their assault rate figures and the claim is utter bunk.

**beazalbob69** · 31-03-2013, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by hazz

The problem is that once you move away from these 'mainstrem' new sources you tend to find that anyone with a real story or truth is drowns under a sea of the insane, the tin foil heads, and corporate astroturffing.

what people need to do and generally don't do, is to stop simply searching for a source of information that they can simply accept because it reenforces their perceived prejudices and to simply fact check what they are being told and asks simple questions of stories.... like does it make logical sense? its the total failure to do this that leads the likes of tom, boonmee and pseudolus, to name a few, to post utter bollocks much of the time.

I.E the NRA say that the US have less assaults than the UK because americans have guns. look at facts being quoted and wether or not they confirm whats being claimed. 5 minutes of fact checking demonstrates that the US cook their assault rate figures and the claim is utter bunk.

Good point Hazz.
Lets see if I can come up with a valid counterpoint(probably not but I will try

).

Somebody will never be able to convince somebody else to believe something that they don't believe in. That goes for everything.

If I was a Muslim and you were a Christian I would never be able to make you change your Religion no matter how many proofs I showed you or valid points I made. Only you can make the choice to believe something. nothing anyone else says or news stories you read will change your mind.

Another example. lets say that I know for a fact that UFO's are real and that they are extraterrestrial in nature and you don't believe in UFO's. I would never be able to make you accept that they were real no matter what I said or what links I provided, ETC. About the only thing that would change your belief would be 1st hand experience. Nothing wrong with that as it is a sign that you are a logical, intelligent, thinking person.

The problem are the people that just blindly believe something regardless of 1st hand experience. That goes for mainstream theories or conspiracy theories. Unfortunately there are many people that fall into this system.

Belief or blind faith in a higher power or a supposedly higher intelligence(God,govt, science, Medical, Law, ETC) is wrong. You want the truth? Seek it out yourself. Prove it to yourself. That is the only correct way otherwise it is just faith and people don't want to hear about your faith.

**ltnt** · 01-04-2013, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by hazz

I clicked on a little square icon next to your name. and what a waste of a click that was.

What were you expecting? Seems "expectations," take over when not getting enough roughage in your diet. Try thinking through your replies prior to opening the door of dissing. Take some of the more open views of possibility than the narrower view of negatives everytime. elevating yourself above other posters here is simply (stupidity) if you don't mind my saying so. don't agree then don't agree, but name calling puts you in the basement with those you chime in about being less than worthy posters or posts.

Take care Hazz and hope you find better hunting grounds with less bitterness involved.

**hazz** · 01-04-2013, 12:28 PM

^but I was simply answering your question, out of courtesy and pointing out that it was a silly and pointless question.

**Neo** · 08-04-2013, 09:51 PM

By Robert McMillan
08 April 13

Maybe it's a sign of the Bitcoin bubble. Criminals are trying to take control of PCs and turn them into Bitcoin miners.

ccording to antivirus seller Kaspersky Lab, there's a new Trojan -- spotted on 4 April and spreading via Skype -- that takes control of infected machines and forces them to do what is known as Bitcoin mining, a way of earning digital currency.

The Bitcoin digital currency system rewards miners (in bitcoins, natch) for their number-crunching work, which is essential to keeping the anonymous Bitcoin currency system working. With the Trojan, hackers are forcing others' machines to earn them money, and it can really put a strain on these machines. Victims might notice that their CPU usage shoots sky high.

On 4 April, the Trojan was spreading via Skype messages. In one Spanish message obtained by Kaspersky, the Trojan was supposed to be a "favourite" picture of the victim.

About two thousand people per hour were clicking on the website hosting the Trojan software, Kaspersky said. "Most of potential victims live in Italy then Russia, Poland, Costa Rica, Spain, Germany, Ukraine and others," Kaspersky Researcher Dmitry Bestuzhev wrote in a blog post.

Once computer criminals have tricked you into downloading a Trojan, they have control of your computer, and there are a lot of things they could do. And the Trojan isn't only used for Bitcoin mining, Kaspersky says.

This isn't the first time a Bitcoin mining Trojan has popped up, and malicious software that flat-out steals bitcoins has been around for years. Two years ago, Symantec spotted a Trojan -- called Badminer -- that sniffed out graphical processing units and used them to crank out bitcoins.

A regular PC wouldn't be able to do much Bitcoin mining on its own, but hackers could pretty easily register a group of compromised computers with a specific Bitcoin mining pool and point all of the systems there, according to Charlie Shrem, the founder of Bitcoin payment processor Bitinstant. "If he infiltrates a million computers, then it will pay off," he said in an email message.

Bitcoins have been on a price surge lately. On 5 April, they were trading at about $140 (£98), about ten times their value at the end of 2012.

Maybe that makes mining a little more attractive to the bad guys.

Trojan turns your PC into Bitcoin mining slave (Wired UK)

**Radius** · 09-04-2013, 08:21 PM

Guess the 'bitcoin' is being traded at $200. It's an interesting idea but I am too simple to understand it. I guess for me owning it would be like giving cash for a prepaid visa card or something like that. I imagine those who allow people to purchase things with it must constantly readjust their prices as its price rises.

BITCOIN $200 - Business Insider

What can you buy with a bit coin?

https://www.spendbitcoins.com/places/

I guess the bitcoin is popular with the dark net and the tor users. Anything really illegal going over the net might be something a bitcoin would be used for. Using it takes the government out of the picture and so tracing etc. The Bitcoin is covered pretty much everyday in an article on BusinessInsider if anyone is interested.

**beazalbob69** · 09-04-2013, 08:35 PM

About a year ago I was looking into bitcoins they were trading at about $30 then I think. now $200 ! holy shit I should have bought up a bunch of them I could have made a small fortune. Now it's too late the mainstream media picked up on it which means it is all over.

**Radius** · 09-04-2013, 09:00 PM

Well, there are only going to be a certain amount 'mined' so the prices should still keep rising if there is any sort of legitimacy to this at all. Sometimes this makes me think of the Internet itself. I couldn't really understand it back in the early 90s. Those geeks who could really made some money out of it. The geeks are the ones who understand this. In my mind I see it somehow connected to using a visa online or paypal but of course the currency is not based in dollars. There are no physical coins to be had. If you want out you trade for another currency.

In the past you could mine coins easily but now it is getting harder so they say if you want in buying in with your currency is the better option. The geeks can still mine in various ways but as an individual you can't mine a coin for years and years. I read 50 years. You need hundreds or thousands of computers to get a coin quicker. Anyways, the whole thing is an oddity but interesting. You really need to understand it to get in and to protect your online currency. When I look at the number of pages on this out there and the lingo they are using I get lost in it all.

Here's a new article on the bitcoin from BI.

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-b...-bubble-2013-4

**TizMe** · 11-04-2013, 07:41 PM

If Bitcoins go to $2,350, then that would be a 10X return.
So that's one possible betting scenario:
If you lose your bet, you lose 100%.
If you win your bet, you make 1000%.

But to be a good gamble you need to know the odds.
What are the odds of the bitcoin value evaporating?
What are the odds of it increasing 10 fold?

I have NFI. (no 'king idea) but it seems a very risky bet for me either way.

I could probably get 10/1 odds on Parramatta winning the NRL Grand Final this year,
if I lose my bet, I lose 100% and if I win I make 1000%, but I'd never in a million years take that bet!

**slackula** · 11-04-2013, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by Radius

Well, there are only going to be a certain amount 'mined' so the prices should still keep rising if there is any sort of legitimacy to this at all.

Oops!

BitCrash Continues: Down 40% And Dumping | Zero Hedge

BitCrash: Down 50% In Massive Sell Off: Over $1 Billion Vaporized In a Few Hours | InvestmentWatch

**Gipsy** · 11-04-2013, 08:56 PM

Double digits tomorrow morning?

**misskit** · 15-05-2013, 10:08 AM

This in Mother Jones today.

And So It Begins: The Feds Target Bitcoin Transactions

In what may be the first move toward a federal shutdown of the wildly popular online currency known as Bitcoin, the Department of Homeland Security today issued an order that has restricted the transfer of funds in and out of Mt. Gox, the Bitcoin exchange that handles some 60 percent of the transactions.

Entire article here:

And So It Begins: The Feds Target Bitcoin Transactions | Mother Jones

**baldrick** · 20-05-2013, 06:28 PM

Sociologist, philosopher, computer industry pioneer and inventor of the term “hypertext” Ted Nelson is claiming that he knows the identity of Bitcoin inventor “Satoshi Nakamoto”.

In a rambling – and, let's face it, odd – 12-minute post on YouTube, Nelson spins out the suspense, throws in a dialogue with himself as Sherlock Holmes and Doctor Watson, and finally ends with the statement that the mystery developer of the cryptocurrency is Japanese mathematician Shinichi Mochizuki, research professor of mathematics at Kyoto University.

full story here
I know identity of Bitcoin's SECRET mastermind, says Ted Nelson ? The Register

Thread: Bitcoin May Be the Global Economy's Last Safe Haven

Thread Tools

Display

Trojan turns your PC into Bitcoin mining slave

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

Posting Permissions