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  1. #1

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    MP Alan Duncan supports Welby man who shot at intruders

    MP Alan Duncan supports Welby man who shot at intruders


    An MP has said homeowners should be free to protect their homes after a man and his wife were arrested over firing a gun at men who allegedly broke in.

    Alan Duncan, MP for Rutland and Melton, said the case was "straightforward" and the pair from Welby should not be prosecuted for defending themselves.

    Leicestershire Police were called by the householder who said he had fired a shotgun at a group of intruders.

    “Start Quote
    The householder is the victim here and justice should support them and prosecute the burglars”
    Alan Duncan MP


    One of the suspected raiders called an ambulance. Another went to hospital.
    Officers said a 35-year-old man and his 43-year-old wife were arrested on suspicion of causing grievous bodily harm.

    Four men, aged 27, 23, 31 and 33, were arrested on suspicion of aggravated burglary.

    Legally held shotgun

    Mr Duncan, a government minister, said: "If this is a straightforward case of someone using a shotgun to defend themselves against burglars in the dead of night, then I would hope that the police will prosecute the burglars and not my constituents.

    "The householder is the victim here and justice should support them and prosecute the burglars."

    A statement from Leicestershire Police said: "Police were called at 12.26am this morning [Sunday] by a man reporting a group of men had broken into his home in Melton.

    "The man stated that during the course of the incident he had fired a legally held shotgun and the intruders had left the scene.

    "Around five minutes later the ambulance service called to tell us they had been called to a man with injuries consistent with shotgun injuries.

    "A second man presented at Leicester Royal Infirmary with similar injuries."

    All six remain in custody on Monday, Leicestershire Police confirmed.



  2. #2
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    Duncan is a pompous twat but if someone or more than one breaks into your home then by all means give them both barrels.
    I cant think of much a more terrifying experience than waking up to find an intruder in your home amonsgt your family.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by dobella View Post
    Duncan is a pompous twat but if someone or more than one breaks into your home then by all means give them both barrels.
    I cant think of much a more terrifying experience than waking up to find an intruder in your home amonsgt your family.
    Agre entirely ,tho Ducan v popular with confrmed bachelor Sultan Qaboos You have never vacationed Somalia then

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by david44
    Agre entirely ,tho Ducan v popular with confrmed bachelor Sultan Qaboos You have never vacationed Somalia then
    Not quite sure what you mean here but i know who Sultan Quaboos is as i served a year in Oman with the RAF back in the mid seventies.
    A lot of trade between British business and Omani's goes on i heard.
    Guess Duncan has his pompous finger up someones ass then.

  5. #5
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    This is the UK we are talking about here. The home owners will face the full force of the law whilst the thieving criminal scumbags will be treated with Kidd gloves and made out to be the poor, bleeding heart victims in all this. There will be a host of liberal, Lefty, hand wringing apologist parasites making sure it is all the fault of the rich home owners and calling for all shotguns to be banned to save any future burglars from being shot at
    !
    THE UK IS FCUKED WELL AND TRULY !
    Treat everyone as a complete and utter idiot and you can only ever be pleasantly surprised !

  6. #6
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    This case is only it's it's preliminary stages and it is normal procedure for officers attending a scene where a firearm has been used to injure someone (whether in self defence or not) to arrest that person and any others seemily involved, take charge of the weapon, and interview same to establish the facts.

    Whether charges will be preferred later is a matter of conjecture at this stage.

    The 4 suspects were arrested for 'aggravated' burglary which would suggest that one or more had a weapon on their person. The victim(s) therefore may have been in fear of being harmed by way of a serious injury/death and reacted accordingly (reasonable force).

    MP Alan Duncan, if reported correctly, should know full well that citizens cannot shoot others where property alone is at risk.

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    When we first moved here the wife was a bit worried as it is up the mountain and there are no other houses near us. She got one of the local police chiefs to come and give her some advise. he said get a gun and shoot anyone you see in the garden or near the house as they have no reason to be there in the night time. When I said the wife is scared of guns he said you shoot him then give the gun to wife. He then said Oh not forget to drag the body into house before you call us with a big smile !
    Exactly how it should be back home. maybe then there would be a few less burglaries than there are now.
    I never did get the gun though. The thought of upsetting the wife with access to a gun didn't bear thinking about

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Lick
    This case is only it's it's preliminary stages and it is normal procedure for officers attending a scene where a firearm has been used to injure someone (whether in self defence or not) to arrest that person and any others seemily involved, take charge of the weapon, and interview same to establish the facts.
    I agree that any case of using firearms needs some investigation. But arresting the home owner if there is no evidence of foul play is way over the top.

  9. #9
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    ^It could be cause there was 2 people in the house and the police want them separated for interview, otherwise they would not normally be a flight I think risk so should not need arrested. Odds on it was self defence but if the burglar was injured to the extent that he could die then it would need to be established that this was a case of self defence and it would not be right for the story to be fabricated by agreement between the 2 residents.

  10. #10
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    Good point loopy

  11. #11
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    The law should be changed so that people are allowed to protect themselves in their own home. Simple.

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    The law is already in place to protect the homeowner (victims). What it doesn't permit is for the homeowner to use excessive force. e.g. to use a lethal weapon where no physical threat to the victim(s) of the crime exists.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Lick
    What it doesn't permit is for the homeowner to use excessive force. e.g. to use a lethal weapon where no physical threat to the victim(s) of the crime exists.
    Not a good imo. You decide in a split second that there is a threat. And a bunch of lawyers and specialists take a few months or years to decide you were wrong and must be prosecuted.

    You need the right to defend yourself, full stop.

    Only very clear cases of abuse need to be excempted. If the intruder is a small child or it can be proven that he already had his hands up seeing your gun it might be considered excessive force.

  14. #14
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    I will say that despite several prominent cases in the UK in recent years concerning the use of weapons to defend property, there will be still cases where excessive force is used by the victims of crime. In doing so they will have to take their chances in a court of law.

    It is a sensitive subject but without that line to cross then homeowners will be able to beat to death with impunity anyone who enters their property uninvited. A wee bit similar to Thailand which no doubt some may feel is pretty ok. Indeed, some might go so far as to ask their worst enemy e.g. someone they owe money to, around for a chat and kill him as he steps inside. Whoops, he shouldn't be here, never mind, no more debt for me!!

    People holding a shotgun when burglars enter their property generally have the upper hand and firing that weapon should be a last resort not the first course of action.

    We all feel for the victims of a burglary but if the law were changed to permit the use of excessive force, we may see a reduction in the number of burglary's but at the same time may also see an increase in the number of people (including victims of crime) incurring serious injury/death. Something i would suggest that the good people of the UK may not wish to bring upon themselves.

  15. #15
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    You need the right to defend yourself, full stop.
    As has already been pointed out, you have the (legal) right to defend yourself already.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zooheekock
    As has already been pointed out, you have the (legal) right to defend yourself already.
    And then you are subjected to a barrage of inquiries by legal people and experts who after much deliberation decide you should have decided differently in a split second. Simply not acceptable.

    Yes I said already every case of using force certainly needs investigation. But the burden of proof would have to be very heavily on the side of the prosecution. Arresting the victims on nothing else than the possibility they might discuss their stories before police can question them is not acceptable practice.



    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Lick
    Indeed, some might go so far as to ask their worst enemy e.g. someone they owe money to, around for a chat and kill him as he steps inside. Whoops, he shouldn't be here, never mind, no more debt for me!!
    That's bullshit. If a creditor is killed in the debtors house that would be an indication of a crime that warrants investigation. And the debt does not go away.

  17. #17
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    And then you are subjected to a barrage of inquiries by legal people and experts who after much deliberation decide you should have decided differently in a split second. Simply not acceptable.
    Well, that's the law. Either you have restraints or you don't. In the first case you run the risk of people acting reasonably and being questioned by the police. In the second, you have people shooting others without restraint. I think the first sounds a bit better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zooheekock
    Well, that's the law. Either you have restraints or you don't. In the first case you run the risk of people acting reasonably and being questioned by the police. In the second, you have people shooting others without restraint. I think the first sounds a bit better.
    Again I don't argue against investigation.

    If the killed or injured person is known to the homeowner as a neighbour, in a business relation or in any other way an investigation will certainly be required.

    If the intruder is not in any kind of relation with the homeowner and het gets shot it is just his bad luck and the investigation should not go any further than establishing that fact.

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    If the intruder is not in any kind of relation with the homeowner and het gets shot it is just his bad luck
    How would the police know that without an investigation? And why does not being known to a home owner justify getting shot?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zooheekock
    How would the police know that without an investigation? And why does not being known to a home owner justify getting shot?
    Read my comment again, I wrote, the investigation should stop there. I mentioned an investigation.

    And of course being unknown to the owner justifies being shot unless the arms are already up in the air. What is his purpose of being there? The owner should not need to investigate on his purpose of being there before taking defensive action. The presence of an unknown person in my house is by definition an act of aggression and a threat to my property and life.

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    What is his purpose of being there?
    Perhaps he was collecting for charity. Perhaps he was lost. Perhaps he was mad. Perhaps he was a burglar but was shot on his knees begging for his life. There could be a million reasons why. That would be something you found out in an investigation. Assuming that somebody who gets shot deserved it simply on the grounds that the home owner didn't know the person is insane and, thankfully, no country is ever going to make a law as daft as that.

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