Is it wrong for adult males to play with children?

**November Rain** · 01-06-2009, 06:07 PM

Thanks to Dug for starting his thread, as it gives me somewhere to launch this poll from.

This is something that has been a worry for me, as I think accusing someone unjustly (of anything, let alone sexual interest in kids) is a horrific thing to do, but, of course, I would never want a kid put at risk.

It used to be fine that men could play footie or whatever with kids, but I now know fathers that won't even bathe their own kids because of worry of how it will be perceived.

So, my question is:

Is it possible for an adult male to have an innocent, friendly interest in an unrelated child (trips to the beach, watching DVDs, walking etc) or would there be (in your opinions) always a more sinister motive?

Poll is private, but I'd appreciate comments.

**Mr Brown** · 01-06-2009, 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by November Rain

but I now know fathers that won't even bathe their own kids because of worry of how it will be perceived.

REALLY!!

Originally Posted by November Rain

Poll is private, but I'd appreciate comments.

I'd appriciate the poll

**NickA** · 01-06-2009, 06:10 PM

Of course.

Though maybe bathing other people's children is a dodgy position

**November Rain** · 01-06-2009, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by Mr Brown

REALLY!!

Seriously.

Originally Posted by Mr Brown

I'd appriciate the poll

It's there, now.

Originally Posted by NickA

Though maybe bathing other people's children is a dodgy position

Yeah, even I would get that one.

**kingwilly** · 01-06-2009, 06:13 PM

fair OP Nr.

but I think the poll needs more options.

I see Dug's point. I see the others points.

A man wandering around in a park who just walks up to strange children and wants to wrestle with them is possibly pushing the line.

A bloke at a birthday party playing footy with a couple of kids is prolly ok.

Somewhere in the middle I guess.

And you've also alluded to the fact that these days we tend to see monsters where ever we look....

**nidhogg** · 01-06-2009, 06:13 PM

Honestly, given society to day, I think that anyone who persists in having a "relationship" with an unrelated minor, outside of an organization or interest group, would have to have a pretty strong motive.

This is not saying (by any means) that all men who work with societies and interest groups are above suspision either.

**Loy Toy** · 01-06-2009, 06:18 PM

My second father, well he was my next door neighbour when I was a kid and I called him Uncle Ron is one of the kindest wonderful men I have ever known.

On school holidays he would take all the kids in the area out too the beach, take us fishing and generally was our guardian because all the other parents worked.

When I look back on those days I really appreciate as an adult and father what he done for my younger sister, all the other kids in the area and myself.

He was genuinely a incredibly kind and wonderful man around children and today unfortunately his actions may be perceived as being sinister which saddens me about how the world is today.

**NickA** · 01-06-2009, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by nidhogg

who persists in having a "relationship" with an unrelated minor

Since when is "having a game of football" considered "persisting in having a relationship"????

**DrAndy** · 01-06-2009, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by November Rain

Is it possible for an adult male to have an innocent, friendly interest in an unrelated child (trips to the beach, watching DVDs, walking etc) or would there be (in your opinions) always a more sinister motive?

I can't understand why you need to ask that NR

You believe all the hype and publicity given to paedos and immediately think they are everywhere

they are a very small minority and only significant because of the harm they can do

If you have a kid to look after, of course you need to educate him/her about bad strangers etc, but it is a bit over the top to suspect everyone of paedophilia if they like to have fun with kids

take care is the thing, not over-react

**Rural Surin** · 01-06-2009, 06:23 PM

Think too much.

**nidhogg** · 01-06-2009, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by NickA

Originally Posted by nidhogg

who persists in having a "relationship" with an unrelated minor

Since when is "having a game of football" considered "persisting in having a relationship"????

Sorry. Not worded clearly. One off - no problem. Its long term that can cause problems.

**nidhogg** · 01-06-2009, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by DrAndy

they are a very small minority and only significant because of the harm they can do

If you have a kid to look after, of course you need to educate him/her about bad strangers etc, but it is a bit over the top to suspect everyone of paedophilia if they like to have fun with kids

Sorry Andy, but I have to disagree somewhat, one two counts.

Firstly, this is not a "statistical" occurrence. You can't get 1/1000th molested or abused, it either happens or it does not.

Secondly, as far as I am aware, the "stranger" type molestation is very rare - but the "friend of the family", adult in supervisor position is much more common.

Grooming takes time, and its done through "shared" interests etc (which came back to the relationship point I made before).

**Loy Toy** · 01-06-2009, 06:40 PM

My father and his best mate from their grade Rugby days trained my rugby league side and quite often he (my father) would wrestle and or tackle some of the boys and as part of the training regime.

Gods knows what parents would think today seeing my old man tackling young teen boys and that somewhat confuses me.

They would always be in the shower room with the boys and after the game and now some might say that is not acceptable.

I agree with Andy again and that genuine care shown by some adults doesn't mean anything untoward and the number of child molesters and pedos make up a minute part of our society.

I think that this pedo thing, whilst being of concern to all proper adults is being blown way out of proportion and as exhibited by the event on the other thread that is now running on our board.

**TSR2** · 01-06-2009, 06:42 PM

^

Absolutely , well said

**DrAndy** · 01-06-2009, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by nidhogg

Firstly, this is not a "statistical" occurrence. You can't get 1/1000th molested or abused, it either happens or it does not.

It is unlikely that a kid will be molested, statistically

and molestation does have degrees

Originally Posted by nidhogg

Secondly, as far as I am aware, the "stranger" type molestation is very rare - but the "friend of the family", adult in supervisor position is much more common.

and?

**nidhogg** · 01-06-2009, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by DrAndy

Originally Posted by nidhogg

Secondly, as far as I am aware, the "stranger" type molestation is very rare - but the "friend of the family", adult in supervisor position is much more common.

and?

and what?

**JuniorExPat** · 01-06-2009, 07:04 PM

"Yes, of course" is the correct answer: the world hasn't filled up with perverts in recent years it's more that the media is louder and policing more effective.

"Don't talk to strangers."

"Don't go off with strangers."

"Don't take gifts from strangers."

"Always tell me where you are going."

My children know those phrases like a mantra and you know what? It works. If you are raising children with a Thai extended family around then it can be a little bit more of a challenge for everyone to know who is a friend and who is a stranger but they should know to ask Mum or Dad.

Let common sense prevail, be watchful by all means but not paranoid; children who jump at the sight of their own shadow will not live life to the full. Above all trust your instincts when it comes to any interaction with any person, be they friend, family or stranger, that your children have.

As for not bathing your own children . . . I think that is absolutely ridiculous and such a shame. There comes a point when children don't want as many hugs and cuddles as their parents want to give and parents have to deal with the fact that their "little ones" are making those steps towards independence, every opportunity up to that point is precious. If someone, other than my children, told me that I could not be part of shower-time I'm not sure how I would react but it certainly would not involve any politeness!

As far as Dug's thread is concerned I think he does have a point, I also think that he has over-reacted but not as much as his drinking buddies did with him though! Fair play to the bloke for looking out for the children but it's a strange thread and impossible to make any judgement without all the facts.

JxP

**forreachingme** · 01-06-2009, 07:09 PM

Got a friend in Paris, wanted to take a small boy off the street in the village as it looked like dangerous and stupid to leave that boy alone there...

just before he was taking him, he changed mind, he is single, travels often to Thailand (kid and wife here..) could be taken for a peadoe wanting to do something to the kid, left him on the road, just shouted go home boy, not safe on the street here if a car is coming...

**TSR2** · 01-06-2009, 07:10 PM

I said in a recent post that in the 40/50s ther were always guys who would come and sit next to you even in an empty cinema
Plus creeps in the bushes

My mother even then said don,t talk to strange men

The point being then we had little communication/information now perhaps too much

**TSR2** · 01-06-2009, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by forreachingme

just before he was taking him, he changed mind, he is single, travels often to Thailand (kid and wife here..) could be taken for a peadoe wanting to do something to the kid, left him on the road, just shouted go home boy, not safe on the street here if a car is coming...

Yes it,s over hyped, sadly you cannot have an innocent relationship

**Takeovers** · 01-06-2009, 07:12 PM

Yes of course.

I remember one situation we had here a number of years ago. At that time all of our neighbours and we had small children. They are all well grown now and the first grandchildren are around.

At that time an appartment block was built next door and most of the construction workers were men from eastern europe as migrant workers. They were very friendly to all our children and had contact with them.

Nobody thought of anything else than they were missing their own children far away and nobody even thougt of foul play.

**Loy Toy** · 01-06-2009, 07:26 PM

^ Europeans are somewhat more touchy, touchy than us Anglo Saxons and I mean that not in a bad way.

Grown men hugging and kissing small children, even each other is not uncommon and by no means signals sinister intention.

We were taught as young men never to do anything other then shake hands as tough as you could muster and I think that is wrong to a degree.

Nothing wrong with getting a hug from your dad or male relative and I wish I could hug my dad right now.

**TSR2** · 01-06-2009, 07:30 PM

Originally Posted by Loy Toy

I wish I could hug my dad right now.

sad we never did then although maybe I had reasons then, not to

Time heals late don,t it!

**November Rain** · 01-06-2009, 07:35 PM

Interesting that people assume that I have the feelings described in the OP.

I don't know how I feel, quite honestly. I hate the idea that people like LT's Uncle Ron would be seen in a bad light these days. I think that we are seeing sinister motives behind the most sincere of gestures and that both kids and men are getting a rawer deal these days because of society's perceptions and fear. But, as a mum, can I risk my child on my personal belief that most people are good and that, as a society, we're overreacting?

**chassamui** · 01-06-2009, 07:35 PM

The sad part about all this is the reluctance of adults to take on things like youth clubs, scouting, cubs, youth sports teams, and the fear placed in the minds of parents.
I was fortunate to have good youth leaders in sports and in the scout movement. Many single adult males were left in charge of myself and friends even on overnight away trips.
I count myself as fortunate to have enjoyed these experiences and still have adult friendships with many of my former mentors.
Today a CRB check is mandatory for anyone who even breathes near a kid. Youth workers have to jump through hoops and make sure same sex colleagues are present during all activities and meetings. That this is necessary is quite sad and it does not protect kids from determined fiddlers who know how to beat the system.
All we have today are bored kids, and talented coaches and helpers who are thinking, fuck this i can't be bothered.
I think twice before even entering into a conversation with a minor, accompanied or not. Litigious parents out for a fast buck are just too scary. Why should adult males be made to feel like that, especially if they have the skills needed to help kids?

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