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  1. #1
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    Drama in the Loy Toy Household/ Discipline in Schools.

    I had to make probably the most important decision of my life last school term and that was to remove my children from a Western Curriculum School (The Regents) and move them to a school that taught Thai. Moving the kids away from their friends and more importantly comfort zone is never easy but as we plan to stay in Thailand for the long haul I thought that it was imperative that we get our children up and running reading and writing Thai.

    We found a suitable (not inexpensive) school that from the outside looking in have great facilities and who based their teaching on 70% Thai and 30% English.

    Well with not too much fanfare and objection they started their new term a few weeks ago and whilst my 2 girls seem to be adapting well my 12 year old son is giving us some grief (he is 100% Thai being the child from my wife's first marriage). He just refuses to want to intergrate with the other Thai kids and more worrying he claims that learning Thai is too hard.

    He has been moved from one class to another because of a few of the other Thai boys apparently were trolling him and today we received a call from the school saying that he refused to have his hair cut as he missed the curfew on hair length (we didn't know as he didn't tell us about the hair cut rule).

    Now my boy never was a problem at the other school but at the same time I think the discipline there was lacking.

    As it stands now I agree with the hair length rule and also agree that if a child steps out of line they should be punished (my youngest girl, 6 years old, said that a few of the boys in her class had received a smack from the teacher).

    I am quite happy that my kid's new school practices reasonable discipline and my wife and children are obviously quite shocked at being introduced to the real world.

    I grew up in a society that gave you a belt when you done wrong and feel my kids will benefit from being told to get in line and stay there.

    What are your thoughts?

  2. #2
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    I have a 4 year old girl myself, and although I do agree that children should be disciplined, I would not be happy with my daughter getting a slap from anybody but my wife or I.

    I'd much prefer the school to let us know so that we can deal with it ourselves, and if she is being naughty, then yes she will get a slap from us.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loy Toy
    I grew up in a society that gave you a belt when you done wrong and feel my kids will benefit from being told to get in line and stay there.
    depends if it is reasonable or not.

    personally, I wouldnt like it at all, and you want the kid to become completely thai? How many smart, intelligent, charming, nice, decent thai men do you know?

    none, me either.

    no wonder he is rebelling.

    12 years old, that's a big change at a bad time mate.

    honestly, i'd reconsider., let the younger girls stay at the thai school, but perhaps he stays on at Regents, was it that bad for him?

  4. #4
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    I agree with Moonraker, but it's your choice what you do with your kids. If you are confident that the teachers can mete out punishment correctly, then that's OK imo.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingwilly
    honestly, i'd reconsider., let the younger girls stay at the thai school, but perhaps he stays on at Regents, was it that bad for him?
    That entered my thoughts too, but I know that LT isn't that impressed with The Regents of late.

  6. #6
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    I brought my kids up speaking only English until the age of 5. Then I put them in a Thai pratom school. They were able to pick up Thai in a matter of months and in the end finished 6th grade 1 and 2 in the school. They tested into a very nice EP matayom school, but this time it is government and had to chop off their hair. I did not like it but its the way it is, and they agreed it would be better. I could have gotten them a waiver as they do model for magazines and the such.

    I could not be happier and they are happy too. The school uses great books from MacGraw Hill and the teachers are very cool as well.

    If they are half Thai how can you deny them the chance to speak, but more importantly read and write the language of one of the parents.

    I think they will be fine, and I think you made the right choice. I feel for the boy though as 12 is a little old to be picking up something like Thai quickly. Take it easy on him as Thai boys of that age can be right shits. I am glad I have twin girls. Once he sees the light at the tunnel and gets over the initial culture shock he should be okay.

    But remember they are taught not to question the teacher, the teacher is always right, and accept the bullshit they pull on you.

    Hope all goes well.

  7. #7
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    Corporal punishment is illegal in Thailand. IMO placing children somewhere where adults may inflict pain on them is despicable.

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    Any teacher resorting to corporal punishment shows a lack of competence, nobody hits my children and the only time they may feel the slap of my hand is in extreme situations such as when a finger is heading for a plug socket.

    Call me an old hippy if you like but I genuinely believe that violence breeds violence and instead children should to be taught how to reason from as early an age as possible.

    I went to a school that allowed the gym slipper and other methods of punishment and although I don't believe it did me any great harm I do believe that I would have benefited greatly from a more cerebral approach.

    The hair issue is a tricky one in our house, my hair reaches halfway down my back! However, I do believe in the structure and discipline that a uniform, which includes haircuts, brings to school life. Having said that, one of our daughters came home from school one day with a ridiculous wedge cut out of her hair; I blew my top with the teacher concerned and received a very contrite apology from the school. Had it been one of our sons, I would have had no problem, the rules are there stating that boys hair must be kept off their collars but our little girl had simply not tied her hair back correctly.

    The reason for waffling on with that story is to point out that there are incompetent, "little Hitlers" in some schools who in no way should be allowed and cannot be trusted to have the right to physically discipline the children.


    JxP
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  9. #9
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    difficult without hindsight, It's only been a couple of weeks. I think if your son see's that mum/dad and school are all singing from the same hymn sheet he may well get used to the idea that he's there for the long term.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingwilly
    12 years old, that's a big change at a bad time mate.
    That's why I claim it was probably the biggest decision of my life mate. Not for me necessarily but having to make that decision on behalf of three other human beings.


    Quote Originally Posted by kingwilly
    honestly, i'd reconsider., let the younger girls stay at the thai school, but perhaps he stays on at Regents, was it that bad for him?
    I made that decision mainly because of my son and after consultation with a few of the teachers from the Regents school. I cannot name the teacher who gave me the best advice but he (who also has 2 Thai born children at that school) said he also worried about his kids and if they decided to make Thailand their home.

    We have also had a Thai tutor coming around for over 2 years and my boy just was not picking up the written language.

    He knows what we have done is the right move for him or maybe he thought that we would one day move away from Thailand like the rest of his mates at the Regents.


    Quote Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog
    If you are confident that the teachers can mete out punishment correctly, then that's OK imo.
    I am confident my kids will never do anything to warrant a slap but also feel if they did step out of line then third party discipline is not out of order.

    If my dad found out I got the cane he would give me another belt for being a prat.

    Basically I have made a huge mistake and by putting the "cart before the horse" and enrolling my son in the Regents before he was totally literate in his mother language.

    If others in the same situation can benefit from my mistake then I would be happy.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by aging one View Post

    But remember they are taught not to question the teacher, the teacher is always right, and accept the bullshit they pull on you.
    That was, is and I suspect always will be my major concern with government schools, it is arguably the most destructive aspect of the education system.


    JxP

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loy Toy View Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog
    If you are confident that the teachers can mete out punishment correctly, then that's OK imo.
    I am confident my kids will never do anything to warrant a slap but also feel if they did step out of line then third party discipline is not out of order.
    You should still keep a very close eye on the teachers and ask your children just how they're punished. Corporal punishment in Thailand is rarely a gentle slap on the wrist and a Thai schools definition of "stepping out of line" may be very different from your definition. I would also be worried about the fact that the school allows teachers to engage in illegal practices. As corporal punishment is illegal there is no correct way to mete it out.

    In November 2006, the findings of a study funded by the National Health Foundation were released which showed that corporal punishment continues to be used in schools, despite its prohibition. The research constituted a questionnaire sent to 1,300 teachers in primary and high schools across the country. Punishments reported included hitting students with open palms, fists, clothes and blunt objects, kicking, applying heated materials and slapping the face. Up to 60% of the teachers strongly believed that corporal punishment was the right method to use with students. (Reported in The Nation, 17 November 2006)
    Last edited by DrB0b; 27-05-2009 at 12:35 PM.
    The Above Post May Contain Strong Language, Flashing Lights, or Violent Scenes.

  13. #13
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    Thanks for all your replies and I agree and understand all your points (even my old mate DrBob) , although I was not aware that corporal punishment in Thailand was illegal.

    Again, and from someone looking in from the outside I must say that the youth of today do not carry the same facade of discipline that the kids in my youth seemed to portray.

    I would not object to my kids getting a slap across the hand if they stepped out of line but a report about why it was carried out would be expected.

    The mere fact the school called my wife immediately and to report that my son was rebelling against having his hair cut is acceptable management by the school. In my day they would just walk along the back of a pupil assembly line and lop off what was considered not appropriate. You knew it was going to happen and there was never any parent complaints so I wonder how things can change in the matter of 3 decades.
    Last edited by Loy Toy; 27-05-2009 at 12:37 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingwilly
    i'd reconsider., let the younger girls stay at the thai school, but perhaps he stays on at Regents, was it that bad for him?
    No the Regents wasn't bad for him KW and he especially liked the music curriculum as he was learning Piano. I have since enrolled him in a private course as he is showing huge promise.


    Quote Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog
    That entered my thoughts too, but I know that LT isn't that impressed with The Regents of late.
    I have been mulling over this dilemma for a couple of years now and had hoped that the extra Thai lessons at home would take care of my concerns.

    With regard to the Regents School in Pattaya I, and as many others have found that the costs simply outweigh the benefits.

    The school is fine for farang familes who come here on a 2 or 3 year contract and then depart LOS residency forever.

    My son may have left the Regents School with credits possibly allowing him automatic enrollment in Harvard or one of the other leading universities around the world.

    He would also definately have left with little or no chance of getting a job in McDonalds so where do you draw the line.

    I posted this thread not as a rant but to expose my fault in not thinking about my son's future and that being here in Thailand.

    There are plenty here who strive to give their kids the best start in life and that's exactly what I thought I was doing, selfish prat I am.

    If others here can learn from my mistake then I have achieved something amongst the drama that will unfold as soon as he walks in the door this afternoon. Shit a traditional haircut for a 12 year old boy going on 18 is not something to take lightly and I mean that in an understanding father way.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loy Toy
    We have also had a Thai tutor coming around for over 2 years and my boy just was not picking up the written language.
    Have you tried learning to read and write with your son? Sorry can you read and write Thai LT?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by JuniorExPat
    That was, is and I suspect always will be my major concern with government schools, it is arguably the most destructive aspect of the education system.
    But it is not allowed in the EP program I am sending my kids to. They had a huge meeting with the company who runs the ep program. "Your children are going to stop with the teacher center learning, and begin student centered learning" So many parents could not concieve of this and the presenter had to spend hours going through just what that meant. Well its only 3 week now, but I could not be happier at the way they are being taught.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by good2bhappy
    Have you tried learning to read and write with your son? Sorry can you read and write Thai LT?
    I have sat down with them and learned about 20 Thai letters and their meanings Happy but as I have to go to Bangkok almost everyday it is difficult to get overly involved.

    Thats why we employed a Thai teacher covering 2 lessons X 2 hours a week and she (the teacher) said he seems to be not interested to learn the language.

    He is extremely smart regarding other things but I think lacks the enthusiasm to learn his mother language.

    Just to inform everyone here this school is not a government school and is quite expensive and for what that is worth.

  18. #18
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    Just thinking LT that as you are probably his hero, if he saw you doing it, he might want to try harder, you know competative spirit and all that.
    That's all, understand your time constraints sure.

  19. #19
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    Actually there is a course for Chinese at this new school and that was one of the other things that attracted me to enrolling my children here.

    With regards to your point about me becoming more involved Happy I will try to make the time as education begins at home and to be fair I think I have been a bit lazy with regard to my input.

  20. #20
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    It is not easy being a parent

  21. #21
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    The first thing I have to say is that I find it astonishing that a supposedly first grade school like Regents does not offer adequate teaching in the Thai language.

    The only other thing I can offer is hindsight- yes, it would have probably been better for your son to have switched earlier- but thats history. Some people handle change easier than others, seems he is struggling at the moment.

    But LT, you are doing this with his best interests in mind. Bladdy hell, you're his father. There is no point in vacillating or equivocating now- certainly not in front of him. He will get used to it in due course, because he will have to.
    probes Aliens

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    Intelligent move LT.

  23. #23
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    why denying your son a proper education ? and taking him away at this age away from his environment and friends is super cruel. Think about it. I can certainly understand how he feels by not integrating with the other "Thais".

    Teachers don't have the answers and certainly don't know your kid as much as you do. At least you should have waited for the new term (English one, not Thai)

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang
    But LT, you are doing this with his best interests in mind. Bladdy hell, you're his father. There is no point in vacillating or equivocating now- certainly not in front of him. He will get used to it in due course, because he will have to.
    I'm sure he will mate but his demeanor is a little worrying at the moment because frankly speaking he has never been a problem. Maybe I am overreacting but made a deal with him last night that if he can proove to me that he can master the Thai written language in one year he can then go to the school of his choice.


    Quote Originally Posted by sabang
    The first thing I have to say is that I find it astonishing that a supposedly first grade school like Regents does not offer adequate teaching in the Thai language.
    Again I cannot name the teacher who I had a long discussion with but he was particularly critical about the way the school caters for all students.

    In fact he said to me that there has been a lot of cancellations due to the currency exchange rate negatives and the fact that less families are coming here due to the economic woes.

    He forecast that as the school was very backward and with regard to teachings in Thai it has lost out on a big market and if and when the short term foreigner business dries up.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly
    At least you should have waited for the new term (English one, not Thai)
    My son is Thai 100% and for him to not be able to read and write Thai in the near future is unacceptable not for me but for him.

    In fact all of the teachers I spoke too agreed that now was the time to make the move (before it is too late) and I hope he can give me the opportunity to move him back to the school of his choice and within a year.

    That's my deal with him and I hope he works hard, masters Thai and that unfortunately for me is totally up too him.

    Thanks for your imput anyway Butters!

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