Thread: Drama in the Loy Toy Household/ Discipline in Schools.

Originally Posted by Fabian

What backward country was it where it was still alright to hit students just 30 years ago?

Australia and as far as my European mates have told me they also received a belt if they stepped out of line.

Were talking about a smack across the palm of your hand with a cane stick or a belt not a beating with a baseball bat or poked with hot irons mate.

And the punishment was normally carried out in the front of the whole class and as an example to others. Not in some dungeon!

Just a few thoughts reading this honest thread. Don't beat yourself Loy Toy for doing what you thought was right at the time. I'm sure your kids learned a lot from the time they spent at Regents. Your son may be rebelling, but he may take longer to adjust than your girls. Boys do mature later, and he may not pick up languages as fast as another child would. He sounds talented in music though.
I'd say give your son a bit more time to adjust, and if there seems to be more problems, then maybe he should be placed back at Regents just imo.

In regards to the corporal punishment that happens in some Thai schools, and also in Korean schools, I'd say if it is illegal, then it definitely should not be happening.

I hear your point of view, about how back in your day, it was okay to use the stick or a crack across the knuckle. We don't really live in that day and age anymore, especially in the west. Teacher's don't have too much power anymore, and if they even hug a child, they may be called out on it. Parental involvement is good, but sometimes overboard when it comes to what the teacher can do in the classroom.

I wouldn't agree with corporal punishment in the west at this stage, because it just wouldn't work. Many kids are overly spoiled in my opinion, and what kind of kids are they growing up to be?

If you don't see anything wrong with a bit of corporal punishment for your kids, then that is your decision, and I don't think anyone is judging you on that. I think that discipline should start and end at home, and often many kids just don't get that discipline, so they think it is alright to act up in the classroom. Now we just try their best to keep students in line, without corporal punishment. A different decade and an age of technology.

Originally Posted by Loy Toy

Originally Posted by Fabian

What backward country was it where it was still alright to hit students just 30 years ago?

Australia and as far as my European mates have told me they also received a belt if they stepped out of line.

Were talking about a smack across the palm of your hand with a cane stick or a belt not a beating with a baseball bat or poked with hot irons mate.

And the punishment was normally carried out in the front of the whole class and as an example to others. Not in some dungeon!

Still a cane or a belt sounds like medieval punishment to me. I started school in 1979 though.

Good post young lady and reiterate I don't like seeing people (especially children) wacked but sometimes a good wack is needed.

All it takes for me to get my children moving is to raise my voice and for example today my son come home, locked his bedroom door and wouldn't go to the barbers with my wife. Just blatantly ignored her pleas to open the door.

I told my wife to get the dog hair shaver and then announced very loudly I would cut his hair later and when he come out for something to eat.

Well you have never seen him move so fast, out the door and into my wife's car and although I feel sorry for him it is for his own good.

My wife is quite angry with him but I told her to let him cool down for a few days.

Originally Posted by Fabian

Still a cane or a belt sounds like medieval punishment to me. I started school in 1979 though.

Yes this form of punishment is outlawed now Fabian and I was well into full time employment by 1997.

What amazes me, and although there has been a lot of negative comments about any form of corporal punishment there has been no comment about how things are today and after they outlawed this practice.

I remember a few threads or at least references about children suing their parents for assault and after getting a simple back-hander.

It is of my opinion that today's youth shows little or no respect to any type of authority and this is wrong.

Originally Posted by Loy Toy

Good post young lady and reiterate I don't like seeing people (especially children) wacked but sometimes a good wack is needed.

All it takes for me to get my children moving is to raise my voice and for example today my son come home, locked his bedroom door and wouldn't go to the barbers with my wife. Just blatantly ignored her pleas to open the door.

I told my wife to get the dog hair shaver and then announced very loudly I would cut his hair later and when he come out for something to eat.

Well you have never seen him move so fast, out the door and into my wife's car and although I feel sorry for him it is for his own good.

My wife is quite angry with him but I told her to let him cool down for a few days.

I think discipline can be enforced without physical punishment. Violence begets violence as someone above stated. I know some children that are so babied, that they grow up thinking the world owes them a living. I notice that there are many babied Korean kids. Many of the teachers allow them to get away with everything because they are afraid of what the parents will say. What a shame. Today I had kids in grade 4, that were whining like they were in kindergarten.

Originally Posted by phuketbound

I think discipline can be enforced without physical punishment.

yes, it should be. If the kid has respect for the teacher, then it will work

if the parents have not helped to instill some respect for authority, it may not

I too have a child who is now attending a school similar to what LT kids are attending with much the same problem after attending an international school for a few years. I hear many posters say "maybe you should send him back" Trust me that would be the worst thing to do. What does that show the child? I don't want to get my hair cut so I will stamp my feet until I get my way. No offense LT. But, if you give in what lesson are you teaching your son? Remember education starts at home and a certain young lad who got pissed off and drove a car into a group of people at a bus stop? Stick to your guns, he will respect you more for your decision in later years as he will grow to see your reasoning.

Originally Posted by beenaroundawhile01

No offense LT. But, if you give in what lesson are you teaching your son? Remember education starts at home and a certain young lad who got pissed off and drove a car into a group of people at a bus stop? Stick to your guns, he will respect you more for your decision in later years as he will grow to see your reasoning.

Thanks for your input mate and there is no way I can possibly change my mind and certainly it is not a contest between me and him although he thinks it may be.

My wife is so pissed off with him and I just told her to leave him be and he will come around.

As far as respecting me that would be nice but the only thing I am concerned about at the moment is that he learns to read and write Thai.

No pain.........no gain like everything in life I suppose!

Originally Posted by DrAndy

Quote: Originally Posted by Loy Toy Worked for me anyway as it did for most of my mates at the time. maybe it did, but it also harms some kids for ever

Yes Andy I am sure that some children have suffered from abuse not only at school but at home but the majority of people from my era come through ok as far as I know.

Originally Posted by DrAndy

If a teacher is smacking kids, then it should be reported to the school head

It is illegal, reprehensible and wrong

The teacher could be fined, or even dismissed

This seems to be the general consensus when it is the child of someone we know being discussed. When a story is told of a young hooligan running riot most folk are calling for the birch and saying it never did them any harm. I think teachers have a pretty tough job these days with no real disciplinary force to fall back on particularly with some of the ill mannered shit heads who need their foking ears boxed. All I can remember is it was mighty effective at getting results when I was at school.

Having said that, if I had a kid and I heard that a teacher belted him or her I would be tempted to go round and kick his arse, so who knows.

^ Same as me Looper I wouldn't like anyone touching my kids but then again I would be shocked to hear my kids had stepped out of line.

I get together with a few teachers here and some of the stories they tell me about the spoilt brats they have to try and teach are frightening.

Even if they berate them in class the child's parents are at the school the next morning calling for the teacher's head.

I respect teachers because in my day it was the done thing but today kids see them as authority figures and not someone trying to show them the way.

A very good thread LT - good points on both sides.

My school years were way back between 1950 and 1958, and in those times teachers were allowed to discipline kids. The cane was the ultimate, but its use was laid out by the headmaster. On joining the school we were talked to by the head and given the reasons as to why we would get the cane and for what for.

Got it a couple of times myself, but knew the risk I was taking and got caught. As you have said it is not the physical pain, it is the humiliation of being caned in front of the whole assembly that hurts more.

My parenting days are over now, but I do feel that in this day and age there is to little lax parenting and many kids are brought up with no respect to any type of authority.

Seems very strange that some people think it's ok to use violence to teach a lesson to kids. I am pretty sure that the same people wouldn't advocate hitting girlfriends and wives, if they were acting like a bi*ch. So why is it ok to hit the little ones? Especially so when it isn't even the parents, but a teacher. Seems like a lazy way to go about things if you ask me, all you are doing is teaching the kid that it's ok to hit people if they have done something wrong.

Originally Posted by good2bhappy

Not accusing Butters for anything untoward with children

apparently you did, see your repo post accusing me of being a pedophile.

Drama in the Loy Toy... 27-05-2009 11:00 PM good2bhappy I might retract that, I heard you like ladyboys, there must be an conection

Originally Posted by Loy Toy

I regret to even have to say that mate. You can see it in the suburbs back home and with regard to the absolute uncouth behavoir of some youths and the total disrespect they have for any adult or laws in general. Some of my teachers were the hardest people I have ever met, had selections of canes and boy you tried to avoid a meeting with those canes. You had to dress correctly and tidily, be at school on time and most importantly show respect to adults. Nowadays you see kids looking like they are on their way to a drug fest or a rock concert instead of school and obviously they have lost all respect for what is most important........their education and that doesn't mean only the things you can find in a book.

oh for gods sake listen to you lot,

youse all sound like a party at blackgangs house.....


In my day .........blah blah blah......... fookin never did me any harm....... yoof of today/....

Originally Posted by Loy Toy

Moving the kids away from their friends and more importantly comfort zone is never easy but as we plan to stay in Thailand for the long haul I thought that it was imperative that we get our children up and running reading and writing Thai.

Originally Posted by Loy Toy

Well with not too much fanfare and objection they started their new term a few weeks ago and whilst my 2 girls seem to be adapting well my 12 year old son is giving us some grief (he is 100% Thai being the child from my wife's first marriage). He just refuses to want to intergrate with the other Thai kids and more worrying he claims that learning Thai is too hard.

Even though only 12 years old, perhaps your son is smarter and more forward-looking than you think.

Perhaps he realises that by being removed from an International School and put into the Thai “education” system he has been condemned to a future of low salaried positions in the Thai labour market.

Why should the fact that you have decided to stay permanently in Thailand have any weight in your decision on your childrens’ education – unless Cost is a factor of course?

Patrick

Loy Toy - are you really planning for your son to enter the job market as a local thai? You know as well as I do that unless you are from a Hi-so thai family with all the connections the job options are limited. Of course, you could be considered as a hi-so farang family but that will not help if he wants to (or you want him to) get a job as a local thai. Far better for him to find a a job as a farang - ie go to an international school, go to a university in australia or wherever and get a job there.

LT. I see that your son is 12 years old. Have you thought that his problem is not a lack of discipline but rather the beginning of puberty? Children of that age are at the beginning of the process that turns them into independent adults and part of that process is a rebellion against authority, as long as it doesn't get out of hand it's not a bad thing. We only have to look at the country we live in to see the results of blind respect for and obedience to authority.

Originally Posted by DrB0b

The use of corporal punishment is a failure on the part of the adult.

I totally agree.

Originally Posted by Propagator

As you have said it is not the physical pain, it is the humiliation of being caned in front of the whole assembly that hurts more.

so is humiliation, of any sort.

Originally Posted by madjbs

Seems very strange that some people think it's ok to use violence to teach a lesson to kids. I am pretty sure that the same people wouldn't advocate hitting girlfriends and wives, if they were acting like a bi*ch. So why is it ok to hit the little ones? Especially so when it isn't even the parents, but a teacher. Seems like a lazy way to go about things if you ask me, all you are doing is teaching the kid that it's ok to hit people if they have done something wrong.

Well said.

Originally Posted by kingwilly

Originally Posted by Loy Toy

I regret to even have to say that mate. You can see it in the suburbs back home and with regard to the absolute uncouth behavoir of some youths and the total disrespect they have for any adult or laws in general. Some of my teachers were the hardest people I have ever met, had selections of canes and boy you tried to avoid a meeting with those canes. You had to dress correctly and tidily, be at school on time and most importantly show respect to adults. Nowadays you see kids looking like they are on their way to a drug fest or a rock concert instead of school and obviously they have lost all respect for what is most important........their education and that doesn't mean only the things you can find in a book.

oh for gods sake listen to you lot,

youse all sound like a party at blackgangs house.....


In my day .........blah blah blah......... fookin never did me any harm....... yoof of today/....

Bizarre, isn't it? Some kind of amnesia brought about by aging perhaps? All I can say is that if some of the people on this thread really were the respectful authority -worshipping automatons they claim to have been then youth was wasted on them. I can't think of a single period in human history when young people weren't being criticised for being wild, undisciplined hooligans. And yet these young people eventually turn into old people and in their turn start with the "in my day" routine.

Every generation believes the generations after them are worse than what's gone before. In reality each generation is much the same but it seems that memories of what it was really like to be young fade and disappear as we age.

“I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on
frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond
words… When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of
elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise [disrespectful] and
impatient of restraint” (Hesiod, 8th century BC).

“What is happening to our young people? They
disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law.
They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are
decaying. What is to become of them?” (Plato)

The children now love luxury; they have bad manners,
contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in
places of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict
their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table,
cross their legs and tyrannize their teachers. (Socrates)
"The world is passing through troublous times. The young people of
today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for
parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as
if they knew everything, and what passes for wisdom with us is
foolishness with them. As for the girls, they are forward, immodest
and unladylike in speech, behavior and dress." (Peter the Hermit, 1274AD)

Originally Posted by DrB0b

“What is happening to our young people? They
disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law.
They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are
decaying. What is to become of them?” (Plato)

wasn't that just before the decline of the Greek empire ?

Originally Posted by DrB0b

“I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on
frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond
words… When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of
elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise [disrespectful] and
impatient of restraint” (Hesiod, 8th century BC).

Same, wasn't that just before the destruction of their state city ? maybe they had a point